Opinionated - China Chipping Away to Semiconductor Dominance

[jamahir]

the PC was running the 64-bit UOS operating system, which is a Chinese modification of Linux.

Why can't China develop a new OS from scratch ? The question of building a new app ecosystem for such an OS is just an excuse.

 

[antonius123]

Why can't China develop a new OS from scratch ? The question of building a new app ecosystem for such an OS is just an excuse.

That is a very logical excuse.
On the other hand, you should give good excuse why they should develop OS from scratch if it wont be compatible with other existing software?

 

[Han Patriot]

Why can't China develop a new OS from scratch ? The question of building a new app ecosystem for such an OS is just an excuse.

Linux is pretty decent...compatibility with alot of software. Even android is Linux based.

 

[jamahir]

On the other hand, you should give good excuse why they should develop OS from scratch if it wont be compatible with other existing software?

Linux is pretty decent...compatibility with alot of software. Even android is Linux based.

In the new OS they can have a Virtual Machine which emulates an Intel x386 machine that runs Linux and this VM can have interfaces for networking and storage. For applications that require real-time response they can write apps for the new OS directly.

This way the new OS can have Linux-compatible apps as well as a new app ecosystem running on the same machine.

 

[antonius123]

In the new OS they can have a Virtual Machine which emulates an Intel x386 machine that runs Linux and this VM can have interfaces for networking and storage. For applications that require real-time response they can write apps for the new OS directly.

This way the new OS can have Linux-compatible apps as well as a new app ecosystem running on the same machine.

Then become inefficient because of additional stage with emulating virtual machine, right?

Whats wrong with taking linux? it is an open source and efficient and compatible with many CPU in market.

 

[Han Patriot]

In the new OS they can have a Virtual Machine which emulates an Intel x386 machine that runs Linux and this VM can have interfaces for networking and storage. For applications that require real-time response they can write apps for the new OS directly.

This way the new OS can have Linux-compatible apps as well as a new app ecosystem running on the same machine.

Emulations will suck up alot of memory and processing power, to me Linux is a very good OS and it's free. Same thing like Risc V. China should have went Riscv and Linux all the way.

 

[antonius123]

This Chinese CPU designer has grandiose plans: 128 cores, 7nm and 5nm incoming
By Anton Shilov a day ago

Phytium roadmap includes CPUs for desktops, embedded, and servers

(Image credit: CnTechPost)
Chinese microprocessor designer Phytium, which recently introduced its new 64-core processor for servers, this week disclosed its ambitious roadmap that spans till 2022. The company intends to expand its product lineup and the list of its production partners.

Phytium was originally established as a designer of server and HPC processors as China could not obtain modern CPUs from AMD and Intel due to export restrictions on high-performance parts. Throughout its history, the company also designed processors for client PCs, but those were byproducts of its server business.

However going forward, multi-core server processors will remain the Phytium’s primary objective, but the company also plans to release new lineups of SoCs for desktop and embedded applications that will be presumably made by SMIC or UMC.

Servers
Phytium’s latest 64-core FT-2000+/64 and Tengyun S2500 processors are made by TSMC using its 16nm process technology, to a large degree because leading-edge production capacities at the world’s largest maker of semiconductors are reserved years ahead by giant customers like Apple.

In the next couple of years Phytium will finally adopt TSMC’s sophisticated 7nm and 5nm nodes. Sometime in Q3 2021 the company intends to release its Tengyun S5000 CPU that will be made using TSMC’s 7nm technology and will support Phytium’s PSPA 1.0 security technology.

By late 2022 the chip developer intends to launch its Tengyun S6000 processor that will be fabbed at TSMC’s 5nm node and will ‘double’ performance.

Pythium does not disclose exact core counts it is looking at for its next-generation CPUs, but it is safe to say that more advanced process technologies will enable the company to boost per-core performance of its chips as well as increase its core count to at least 128 cores.

Desktops
By the end of this year Phytium will reveal its Tengrui D2000 processor that is projected to double single-core performance compared to previous-generation offerings, the company said, but did elaborate which previous-gen CPU was used for comparison.

The subsequent generation — the Tengrui D3000 — is planned to be released by the end of 2021. The new Tengrui D-series processors will also support PSPA 1.0 and PSPA 2.0 technologies. Both CPUs will be made using a 14nm process technology

Embedded
In addition to desktop-oriented Tengrui D-series processors, Phytium plans to launch Tengrui E-series CPUs for embedded applications. The Tengrui E2000 chips will be released in Q2 2021, whereas more advanced Tengrui E3000 with improved I/O capabilities will be unveiled in Q3 2022. Just like their desktop counterparts, the E3000 will be made using a 14nm node.

SMIC or UMC?
Phytium has traditionally used TSMC’s manufacturing services, but with its Tengrui D and Tengrui E-series the company plans to use a 14nm process technology. TSMC does not offer a 14nm process, but its rivals SMIC and UMC do.

SMIC is based in China and only started production using its 14nm technology in Q4 2019. Right now, the company is ramping up its 14nm production as well as building up capacity. Given the fact that Phytium is a China-based company, it makes sense for it to use SMIC’s services. Meanwhile, SMIC’s experience with high volume production (HVM) of 14nm chips is limited to 15,000 300-mm wafers at best so far.

UMC started to offer its 14nm technology to clients a couple of years ago, but its production volumes have never been sizeable. To that end, UMC’s experience with 14nm HVM is also limited.

• This Chinese CPU challenger is taking on Intel and AMD with Arm's help

Via CnTechPost
https://www.techradar.com/nz/news/c...randiose-plans-128-cores-7nm-and-5nm-incoming

 

[JSCh]

RISC-V processor designed by five Chinese university students successfully fabricated - cnTechPost
2020-07-25 22:20:25 GMT+8 | cnTechPost

Five undergraduates from the University of Chinese Academy of Sciences led the design of a 64-bit RISC-V processor that became their graduation project, according to China Youth Daily.

The 64-bit RISC-V processor SoC, called "NutShell," was designed last year and is based on the 110nm process of Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), the biggest chipmaker on the Chinese mainland.

The SoC has been successfully taped out and is capable of running Linux as well as UCAS-Core, an operating system they made themselves.

All five graduates will be attending graduate school at the Institute of Computing Technology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, "to participate in a more challenging project to develop a design for a high-performance chaotic multi-emission RISC-V processor core.”

"Processor chips are recognized as the crown jewel of the chip industry, with high design complexity and difficulty. There is a serious shortage of processor chip design talent in China, and it is an urgent challenge to accelerate the scale and speed of training of such talent," said Sun Ninghui, dean of the School of Computer Science and Technology at the University of Chinese Academy of Sciences and director of the Institute of Computing Technology at the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

In response to the processor design talent crisis, the University of Chinese Academy of Sciences launched the "One Life One Chip" program in August 2019, with the goal of training undergraduates to design processor chips and complete tape out with with solid theoretical and practical experience.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...s-slipping-intel-contemplates-3rd-party-fabs/

By late 2022 / early 2023, TSMC should be shipping 3nm. Even if we assume that Intel’s 7nm is good enough to compare directly to TSMC’s 5nm, that still puts the Taiwanese company a full node ahead.
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ys-may-use-external-foundries-for-future-cpus

“With the latest push out of process technology, we believe that Intel has zero-to-no chance of catching or surpassing TSMC at least for the next half decade, if not ever,” Susquehanna analyst Chris Rolland wrote in a research note.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ailure-heralds-end-of-era-for-u-s-chip-sector

 

[bolo]

Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...s-slipping-intel-contemplates-3rd-party-fabs/

By late 2022 / early 2023, TSMC should be shipping 3nm. Even if we assume that Intel’s 7nm is good enough to compare directly to TSMC’s 5nm, that still puts the Taiwanese company a full node ahead.
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ys-may-use-external-foundries-for-future-cpus

“With the latest push out of process technology, we believe that Intel has zero-to-no chance of catching or surpassing TSMC at least for the next half decade, if not ever,” Susquehanna analyst Chris Rolland wrote in a research note.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ailure-heralds-end-of-era-for-u-s-chip-sector

Correct me if I'm wrong but does TSMC and Intel build chips for the same purpose?

 

[tower9]

Intel's 7nm parts are now projected to arrive alongside TSMC's 3nm, in 2022/23.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...s-slipping-intel-contemplates-3rd-party-fabs/

By late 2022 / early 2023, TSMC should be shipping 3nm. Even if we assume that Intel’s 7nm is good enough to compare directly to TSMC’s 5nm, that still puts the Taiwanese company a full node ahead.
https://www.extremetech.com/computi...ys-may-use-external-foundries-for-future-cpus

“With the latest push out of process technology, we believe that Intel has zero-to-no chance of catching or surpassing TSMC at least for the next half decade, if not ever,” Susquehanna analyst Chris Rolland wrote in a research note.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ailure-heralds-end-of-era-for-u-s-chip-sector

Tsmc is beholden to the US so their progress actually only hurts China because they are prevented from supplying China

 

[JSCh]

Chinese company develops new lithography equipment - cnTechPost
2020-07-28 19:22:02 GMT+8 | cnTechPost

​

SVG Group, a Chinese technology company, announced on Monday that it has launched industrial production of its iGrapher 3000, the world's first large-scale UV-3D direct lithography machine.

SVG Group is engaged in the design, development, and manufacture of micro- and nano-structured products and manufacturing equipment, as well as the provision of related technical research and development services.

The iGrapher3000 is mainly used for 3D lithography of micro-nano-structured topography on large substrates.

It is a new platform for the design, development, and manufacture of novel materials and advanced optoelectronic devices, and can be called the cornerstone equipment of the optoelectronic industry.

From planar lithography of integrated circuits to 3D lithography of "micro-structured topography" of optoelectronics, iGrapher3000 provides an advanced means for the design of novel materials and functional optoelectronic devices.


....

Chinese company develops new lithography equipment - cnTechPost

 

[JSCh]

China announces new policy to encourage IC Industry development - cnTechPost
2020-08-04 18:56:01 GMT+8 | cnTechPost

China's State Council today announced new policies offering a wide range of incentives, including tax breaks, to further optimize the environment for the development of the integrated circuit and software industries.

For integrated circuit manufacturers or projects encouraged by the State to produce integrated circuits with a line width of less than 28 nanometers (nm) and an operating period of more than 15 years, they are exempt from corporate income tax from the first to the tenth year.

For integrated circuit line widths less than 65 nanometers and operating periods of 15 years or more, integrated circuit manufacturers or projects are exempted from corporate income tax from the first to fifth year, and from the sixth to the tenth year at a statutory rate of 25 percent.

For integrated circuit manufacturers or projects whose line width is less than 130 nanometers and have been in operation for more than 10 years, they are exempted from corporate income tax from the first to the second year and 50% off at the statutory rate of 25% from the third to the fifth year.

Losses incurred in the taxable year by integrated circuit manufacturers with line widths less than 130 nanometers are allowed to be carried forward to future years, with a maximum total carry-over period of 10 years.

The state-encouraged integrated circuit design, equipment, materials, packaging and testing enterprises and software enterprises shall be exempted from corporate income tax in the first to second year from the profit-making year, and shall be taxed at the statutory rate of 25% in the third to fifth year by halving the corporate income tax.

Key integrated circuit design enterprises and software enterprises encouraged by the state are exempted from corporate income tax from the first to the fifth year from the profit-making year, and the tax rate is reduced by 10% in the following years.

In a certain period of time, integrated circuit line width less than 65 nanometers of logic circuits, memory production enterprises, as well as line width less than 0.25 microns of special process integrated circuit production enterprises to import their own production of raw materials, consumables, clean room special building materials, supporting systems and integrated circuit production equipment spare parts, exempted from import duties.

The policy states that it will further strengthen the construction of integrated circuit and software majors in colleges and universities, speed up the setting up of integrated circuit disciplines, adjust course settings, teaching plans and teaching methods in a timely manner to meet the needs of industrial development, and strive to cultivate high-level talents.

Full text here: Link (in Chinese)

 

[antonius123]

Is Huawei building its lithography machines?
2020-07-26
|
ChinaTech

Huawei is hiring many lithography engineers recently. Does Huawei want to develop its own lithography machine in China?

Recently, the news about Huawei's development of a lithography machine has been posted on Weibo and WeChat Moments. The source of the news is that Huawei is recruiting lithography machine technicians on a large scale, requiring full-time work in Songshan Lake, Dongguan.

According to reports, many domestic manufacturers have received inquiries for ancillary products from Huawei.

There are even claims that a large number of core personnel within Huawei have been transferred to the lithography machine department. In Huawei’s newly established lithography machine department, people work 24 hours a day, eat and live in the company. It is also expected to mention that its 5NM lithography machine will be put into mass production within two years.
In addition, another source said that Huawei had applied for a patent on lithography equipment as early as 4 years ago.

According to the Chinese patent publication website epub.sipo.gov.cn, the patent was applied for at the Chinese Patent Office on September 9, 2016. The applicant is Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. and the inventor is Florian Longnos. He used to work for Huawei and now works as a senior engineer at Groupe SII in France.

Huawei lithography machine patent (in Chinese)

In other words, Huawei began research and development of the lithography machine industry as early as 4 years ago.

Huawei stated in the patent document that the implementation of the present invention provides a lithography equipment and a lithography system, which can avoid translation of the substrate by using an optical switch and at least two photonic devices to form an interference pattern on the surface of the substrate. This improves the efficiency of photolithography processing and the accuracy of interference patterns.


Why Huawei will build its own lithography machine?

In this regard, the China Semiconductor Forum (211ic.com) issued a statement that it is logical for Huawei to enter the lithography machine under the current situation. Huawei HiSilicon currently has no design capabilities, but cannot produce chips.

Before Huawei's president Ren Zhengfei had a chip plan to prevent it from being restricted, and now the chip foundry production has become a weakness that Huawei has been criticized by the United States. Huawei therefore needs to lay out a complete industrial chain like Samsung.
However, the article believes that, in theory, it is basically impossible for Huawei to produce a 5NM lithography machine within two years.
First, the lithography machine is not something that anyone can do. Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment, jointly led by the Shanghai Municipal Government and state-level departments, achieved 96nm after more than ten years of hard work.
SMIC has been established for 20 years, but is only now familiar with the 14nm process. But this is already a very difficult achievement. It is now rumored that Huawei wants to build 5NM in two years, which is a bit unlikely.
Second, Huawei recruits a "lithography process engineer", which belongs to a research and development position, that is, Huawei sends engineers to the foundry to supervise and guide the process manufacturing. If Huawei intends to build its own lithography machine, the recruitment position should be "lithography equipment engineer".


Why Huawei can build its own lithography machine?
However, some people believe that if Huawei builds its own chip factory, the probability of success in its lithography machine still exists.

First, Huawei has a lot of cash flow support.
Second, although Huawei could not produce chips or lithography machines before, it has mastered the relevant technical principles and technical reserves.
Third, if Huawei really wants to produce lithography machines, the Chinese government will definitely support it. Therefore, although it seems a bit impossible for 5NM lithography machines to be put into mass production within 2 years, at least the money and talents are in place. With the strong support of the country, it may come true one day in the future.

https://www.chinasdg.org/article/is-huawei-building-its-lithography-machines

 

[S10]

Tsmc is beholden to the US so their progress actually only hurts China because they are prevented from supplying China

Credit where credit is due. TSMC is THE king of fab, and it's going to stay that way for at least a decade if not more.

China can only manufacture 28nm chips with its own technology at the moment. It's going to be a long road ahead.