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Opinion: Imran Khan overthrown because of collision with doctrine of Military Establishment?

my 2cents outside view. I think he was deliberately setup to fail.

If you look at Egypt; when Morsi came to power. It was my exact words to my fellow Egyptian friends, the Pharoahs have ruled Egypt for milleniums; the junta who is owning everything wont give up power - instead they will set him up to fail by ensuring he gets the 'right' people around him who facilitate that failure.

Morsi did not see the number of years IK did and the poor man died a horrible death on the hands of the brutal junta lead by sisi. At the time, those around will remember how even monies were not available for basic food; but then KSA/UAE etc instigated the coup and brought Sisi in and flushed his hand with monies.

It is regretful but reality is military juntas need to be focused on their role of defending the borders but i see Pak and Egypt mil in same light; they have built empires to enrich themselves. Then do you ask for any fairness from anyone.

Democracy is a two edge sword but give it time, it will get better.
IMO the fact that IK is alive and well tells us that the Pakistani "establishment" either isn't on a sure footing or, ultimately, IK wasn't much of a threat to it.

Anyways, the entire governance structure of Pakistan (from the government to how state-owned enterprises are run) has matured to basically prevent real change. That's why the most capable Pakistanis aren't leading any of the key institutions -- they're generally on the outside looking in. In fact, if you look at the most capable Pakistan individuals alive -- be it within Pakistan or outside -- very few of them are within the system. The majority are external voices.

Ultimately, the system empowers and serves the corrupt. It doesn't want capable actors as capable folks will generally want meritocracy, progress, discipline, etc, but people who'll just say, "yes sir" and play their game. Unfortunately, most capable Pakistanis know that path is the path of ruin, but they can't do anything about it. Hence why they're mostly on the outside looking in.

@SQ8 @JamD @kursed
 
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IMO the fact that IK is alive and well tells us that the Pakistani "establishment" either isn't on a sure footing or, ultimately, IK wasn't much of a threat to it.

Anyways, the entire governance structure of Pakistan (from the government to how state-owned enterprises are run) has matured to basically prevent real change. That's why the most capable Pakistanis aren't leading any of the key institutions -- they're generally on the outside looking in. In fact, if you look at the most capable Pakistan individuals alive -- be it within Pakistan or outside -- very few of them are within the system. The majority are external voices.

Ultimately, the system empowers and serves the corrupt. It doesn't want capable actors as capable folks will generally want meritocracy, progress, discipline, etc, but people who'll just say, "yes sir" and play their game. Unfortunately, most capable Pakistanis know that path is the path of ruin, but they can't do anything about it. Hence why they're mostly on the outside looking in.

@SQ8 @JamD @kursed
I have very harsh views on the topic, and the forum would end up banning me which I do not want. =)
 
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IMO the fact that IK is alive and well tells us that the Pakistani "establishment" either isn't on a sure footing or, ultimately, IK wasn't much of a threat to it.

Anyways, the entire governance structure of Pakistan (from the government to how state-owned enterprises are run) has matured to basically prevent real change. That's why the most capable Pakistanis aren't leading any of the key institutions -- they're generally on the outside looking in. In fact, if you look at the most capable Pakistan individuals alive -- be it within Pakistan or outside -- very few of them are within the system. The majority are external voices.

Ultimately, the system empowers and serves the corrupt. It doesn't want capable actors as capable folks will generally want meritocracy, progress, discipline, etc, but people who'll just say, "yes sir" and play their game. Unfortunately, most capable Pakistanis know that path is the path of ruin, but they can't do anything about it. Hence why they're mostly on the outside looking in.

@SQ8 @JamD @kursed
I wrote what I thought on a thread in the Pakistani Siasat forum, albeit a very guarded post. I don't read too much into the current political turmoil as in indication of establishment's weakness/strength. To me IK is like a child that wants rules broken for him but wants to burn the house if the rules come back to bite him. He's playing a dangerous game that I cannot stand behind. Had he remained uncompromised and not done all of the things he is complaining of being done to him today, I would've had sympathy for him. Also, this goes without saying but the establishment isn't JUST the military. *prepares for traitor/beggar/banning*
 
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You guys really need to take a chill pill. I am a fan of IK but also a realist. Lets face it and get our cards down on the table.
IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you know the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He had been told innumerable times to hold reelections but din not listen to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal. I dare say not doing so would have left the parlianment open to being oppressed and the will of the majority suppressed. He was therefore forced to hold a vote which he lost.
The army is in a bad situation in all of this. It has RIGHTLY remained neutral as is its remit. Any interference would have further reinforced the selected label on IK by his accusers and harmed his long term prospects as a label of the "King's party" would have harmed him.
The current government is a hodge podge of goons from many parties who will not be able to run the state. With 135 seats vacant in the parlianment it will be a herculian task to organize re poling on these posts again. Street pressure will force mistakes and street pressure is IK forte.
So the likelihood is he will be reelected.
NOW WHERE ON THIS WHOLE FIASCO DO YOU SEE A ROLE OF THE ARMY?
The recent investigations recounted by FAWAD CHAUDHRY of PTI suggests 60% of the twitter/media posts maligning the army is coming from India. 20% from NOONIES disguised as Insafians. Do not fall victim to this baseless propaganda. If nothing else listen to the PTI leadership and hear what they are saying. They are desperately trying to tell everyone to not fall prey to this viscious maligning campaign against the army.
Rest I will leave you to decide.
A


All IK said was that India refused to criticize the Russians for the Ukrainian war. That is not a praise as such but in this maligning campaign everything is Halal. No one wants to even listen to the PTI high ups.
A
Thank you. Didn't realize that such (nuanced) opinions still existed on this forum.
 
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Sensible post.
Let's hope for a more humble, realistic Imran 2.0 and also hope that Shahbaz Sharif delivers something to the people before the next elections. Pakistan cannot afford a long period of strife and uncertainty.
Thank you for a very balanced post. You are a well wisher of Pakistan and that should be respected and honoured. As to SS. I have repeatedly said he is a good administrator. However the baggage that he carries will not let him go far. There is too much going on and the strife in the nation will result in the economy nose diving and more problems to come. The reelections and a stable government structure is a need of the hour.
A
 
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بچو۔۔! جو پاک فوج کے خلاف ہو وہ بیرونی سازش ہوتی ہے! اور جو حکومت کے خلاف ہو وہ بیرونی دخل اندازی ہوتی ہے! - DG ISPR

#امپورٹڈ_حکومت_نامنظور


Too much army apologists as mods!! My whole thread was deleted stating thread already exists! My posts weren't merged to a new thread. They were purposefully deleted! @The Eagle
 
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It was bound to happen!

There were multiple shut-up calls sent to IK for not praising India's foreign policy publicly, but he wasn't listening and deliberately avoiding it. You can not do this. He directly collided with the pivot of Pakistan's strategic policies. IK stepped outside the boundary, which was disastrous at all levels. He was capturing the attention of the Indian establishment and govt corridors.

Indian mainstream media was covering IK since day one but once he starts praising India's foreign policy, there was a sudden change in the entire Indian media coverage, their narrative and tone. Certainly, it was an expected. As of now, the Indian fascist regime has already built favorable grounds with respect to Kashmir FP (by utilizing Khan's recent remarks) and you will see this in the upcoming general elections.

Rationally, we are aligned with the western establishment and their policies since the partition, however, Pakistan's military always stands like a fireball when it comes to their defined doctrine. They won't tolerate, and won’t compromise if you directly interfere in their policies regarding India. For the west, that's completely acceptable if they really need Pakistan’s irrational support. No one can force Pakistan's military to accept Indian hegemony in the region.

Khan’s anonymous intervention into the domain that was pre-established by Pakistan’s powerful military establishment was completely unacceptable to them. That was an unintelligent, and brainless approach on IK's part. Consequently, that was enough reason to thrash IK from the power without wasting any time. NS tried that twice, and both times he was thrashed by the powers'.

Everyone should understand that there is a reason behind the existence of Pakistan, there is a reason for having armed forces and there are enough reasons for having anti-Indian doctrine -- vice-versa.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.
I think same goes for Faiz Hameed. I think he was just saying what any person visiting a country in crisis would want to say. Don't worry everything will be ok. It was quite a minor harmless thing to say. I didn't expect mighty COAS to react in such a harsh way.


Gen Faiz bechara casually bol rha ho ga
COAS to bhai full gussa kar gea.
 
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Can't wait to attend Saturday Jalsa of Imran Khan in Karachi with friends and family.

Stay safe - ( i do have my very serious worries about the current Bajwa led military junta in Pakistan and why they will do to protect their assets in the imported goverment )..
 
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