Opinion: Imran Khan overthrown because of collision with doctrine of Military Establishment?

[khansaheeb]

You guys really need to take a chill pill. I am a fan of IK but also a realist. Lets face it and get our cards down on the table.
IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you onow the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He has been told innumerable times to hold reelections but has not listened to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal. I dare say not doing so would have left the parlianment open to being oppressed and the wilp of the majority suppressed. He was therefore forced to hold a vote which he lost.
The army is in a bad situation in all of this. It has RIGHTLY remained neutral as is its remit. Any interference would have further reinforced the selected label on IK by his accusers and harmed hos long term prospects as a label of the "King's party" would have harmed him.
The current government is a hodge podge of goons from many parties who will not be able to run the state. With 135 seats vacant in the parlianment it will be a herculian task to organize re poling on these posts again. Street pressure will force mistakes and street pressure is IK forte.
So the likelihood is he will be reelected.
NOW WHERE ON THIS WHOLE FIASCO DO YOU SEE A ROLE OF THE ARMY?
The recent investigations recounted by FAWAD CHAUDHRY of PTI suggests 60% of the twitter/media posts maligning the army is coming from India. 20% from NOONIES disguised as Insafians. Do not fall victim to this baseless propaganda. If nothing else listen to the PTI leadership and hear what they are saying. They are desperately trying to tell everyone to not fall prey to this viscious maligning campaign against the army.
Rest I will leave you to decide.
A


All IK said was that India refused to criticize the Russians for the Ukrainian war. That is not a praise as such but in this maligning campaign everything is Halal. No one wants to even listen to the PTI high ups.
A

Most significant point is that the US said IK must go and then IK was pushed out which implies if US said IK should stay then IK would remain in power. So US is the real power and they pull the strings through our agencies.

 

[araz]

Most significant point is that the US said IK must go and then IK was pushed out which implies if US said IK should stay then IK would remain in power. So US is the real power and they pull the strings through our agencies.

"They plan and Allah plans. And Allah iscthe best of planners". This is the ayat in Quran which you should believe in not what XYZ says or wants .
If you look at the ground reality it is just the fate of any minority government.
You talk of intervention by agencies. What CONCRETE evidence do you have that the AGENCIES pulled the plug on the IK govtt.
I really fail to understand you guys. Even the most obvious of facts ie a minority government relies on the machinations of an under secretary to survive. I mean can you not think of a SINGLE instance in which minority governments have failed.
Are you guys so gullible that you fail to see the economic woes which have made the system vulnerable to intervention by IMF/FATF. If Paklands is under FATF radar can you honestly say that this was not because of the negligent ways in which business is conducted and the prospects of money laundering. Your only excuse is that it happens every where. Well does that change the fact that our economic system was corrupt to the core and weak to boost. If we had been a trillion dollar economy would the same fate have befallen us? Face the fact- this is a rich man's world where money talks and you dont have any!
Lastly look at the consequence of this move. Would it not allow him to rile the nation up and gather it together allowing him to come back stronger. He just needs to bide his time.
The last thing to say is do not assign outside causes to weaknesses that you have/within the system. First fortify ypur self then concentrate on the outside. As our Rasool Allah taught us " tie your camel first then do tawwakal alAllah". No one's fault if you left gaping weaknesses in your political setup allowing people to exploit it and then cry to the world how you have been dealt woth

 

[Goritoes]

That position from the military, if true, is completely unacceptable.

The Army does not have a monopoly or control over foreign policy, the elected government does.

If this was a reason behind the Army leadership conspiring with the PDM to overthrow the PTI government, then that still amounts to treason and a betrayal of Pakistan.

Your comment below is absolutely correct and paints an unfortunate picture of the state of affairs in Pakistan and one institution's monopoly over the system. Even with his flaws, Imran Khan's honesty, patriotism and desire to improve the country was never in doubt. He was as close to perfect as we could hope for to FINALLY end the monopoly of the military over the country, and sadly the short sighted policies of the leadership of that institution have severely damaged the chance for Pakistan to finally change the system.

What Quaid said, all good captions and quotes, who should run the foreign policy, Army should be under the command of PM and all that, in reality, Pak military owns the country and they are the ones who drive the state policy whether you like it or not. Once you deviate from it, you will face the consequences. IK absolutely did the right thing. Praising someone's independent policy won't make you a traitor however, in reality, our govt(s) are working under extreme pressure and hostility.

IK was definitely not perfect but he was the perfect start of the process which we were looking to have future young and intelligent leaders who will take Pakistan to next level, he would've been that leader who would dispose the elite and family politics which will allow our young to take interest in politics but as always, DHA gang intervene and kicked him out with help of Foreign help, interesting thing here is that American can easily contact IK and even have everything they wanted through him but American as always think 50 years ahead of time, and they see a change in trend with a leader like IK, and also Americans although say we support democracies around the world but its a proven FACT That America has toppled Democratic Govt's and supported Dictators if its serves their national interest. They are powerful and there is no doubt in it, they did not just bring every blood thirsty Political party as one but they completely dominated other institutions as well which are the pillars of Democracy, from Army to SC and from Political parties to Journalists. Pakistanis for the first time in a long time had to experience the actual Power of America within its country.

 

[Leviza]

Understand that army cannot allow interference in its internal affairs

Read general bajwa and general faiyaz
If you know why and what about these 2 then you will know what happened to IK simple

 

[TechMan]

lol at those who are saying that Army stayed neutral this time and this NCV was all "organic" and "natural". You don't stay neutral and come to PM House at 12am to demand resignation. You don't get petition ready in high court in case army chief is dismissed which is PM's constitutional right. You don't go against elected PM's foreign policy and talk against Russia. GTFO with your logic.

 

[araz]

If you can write all that and still condone such an illegal act by a reckless Imran Khan then I don't know what to say? Just read your post above! What was it that was keeping Buzdar as the CM of the most important province of Pakistan except Imran Khan's ego?? That's just an example.

BTW, they were first 'cajoled' into supporting Imran Khan after the 2018 elections by the same forces which have now UnCajoled them. I remember watching a show where journalist Haroon Rashid said that MQM members were made to sit on 'Thanday Farash' (Cold Floor) by the security agencies until MQM had to support Imran Khan to form a govt. Everyone must read the Hamid Mir article from January 2022 which I have referenced above. This change of govt was not a surprise!

Here is a scene from a great movie ('1492: Conquest of Paradise') which I had seen decades ago and never forgotten, to describe the latest drama of Pakistan's politics:

Bhai
Where have I condoned the illegal act of IK? I have fully agreed that his ego and failure to listen has remained an issue throughout his reign.
As to MQM (my personal opinion is), they have committed political suicide by switching sides. They have a history of making stupid decisions but this takes the mantle piece in being the most stupid.
However, compared to Zardari, Shareefs and Fazlu he is still better. Sometimes it takes a setback to teach you some lessons. This is just one such lesson. I can only hope that he will learn from it and move on in a right direction.
I have openly stated SS is a good administrator. However the hodgepodge od parties will not stand the test of time as he has snakes for mates and they will bite when he is at his worst. This and elder brother coming back is going to put pressures untold on his government.
Only Allah knows what is going to happen in the future. But the signs currently are in favour of re elections.
A

 

[lastofthepatriots]

The reasoning provided by OP doesn’t make sense.

Establishment had no problems with Nawaz inviting Modi over for tea parties, but had a meltdown because IK said India has an independent foreign policy...

Am I missing something here?

 

[jupiter2007]

Build your economy, and then do whatever you want.

It’s require planning, effective laws and policies to make to economy turn around.
Economy is not build in months or years, it take decades to build strong self sustainable economy.

 

[Meengla]

Bhai
Where have I condoned the illegal act of IK? I have fully agreed that his ego and failure to listen has remained an issue throughout his reign.
As to MQM (my personal opinion is), they have committed political suicide by switching sides. They have a history of making stupid decisions but this takes the mantle piece in being the most stupid.
However, compared to Zardari, Shareefs and Fazlu he is still better. Sometimes it takes a setback to teach you some lessons. This is just one such lesson. I can only hope that he will learn from it and move on in a right direction.
I have openly stated SS is a good administrator. However the hodgepodge od parties will not stand the test of time as he has snakes for mates and they will bite when he is at his worst. This and elder brother coming back is going to put pressures untold on his government.
Only Allah knows what is going to happen in the future. But the signs currently are in favour of re elections.
A

Sensible post.
Let's hope for a more humble, realistic Imran 2.0 and also hope that Shahbaz Sharif delivers something to the people before the next elections. Pakistan cannot afford a long period of strife and uncertainty.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

You guys really need to take a chill pill. I am a fan of IK but also a realist. Lets face it and get our cards down on the table.
IK went because of an NCV. Politically he was weak as he had a minority government perched on the shoulder of some minority parties. These parties were cajoled (you know the means as well as I do) into withdrawing the support for IK. He had been told innumerable times to hold reelections but din not listen to the advisors
He tried a blatantly illegal way of turning down the NCV. This unfortunately was latched on to by the SC who after uncharacteristically rapid deliberation RIGHTLY turned the ruling of his DEP. Speaker illegal. I dare say not doing so would have left the parlianment open to being oppressed and the will of the majority suppressed. He was therefore forced to hold a vote which he lost.
The army is in a bad situation in all of this. It has RIGHTLY remained neutral as is its remit. Any interference would have further reinforced the selected label on IK by his accusers and harmed his long term prospects as a label of the "King's party" would have harmed him.
The current government is a hodge podge of goons from many parties who will not be able to run the state. With 135 seats vacant in the parlianment it will be a herculian task to organize re poling on these posts again. Street pressure will force mistakes and street pressure is IK forte.
So the likelihood is he will be reelected.
NOW WHERE ON THIS WHOLE FIASCO DO YOU SEE A ROLE OF THE ARMY?
The recent investigations recounted by FAWAD CHAUDHRY of PTI suggests 60% of the twitter/media posts maligning the army is coming from India. 20% from NOONIES disguised as Insafians. Do not fall victim to this baseless propaganda. If nothing else listen to the PTI leadership and hear what they are saying. They are desperately trying to tell everyone to not fall prey to this viscious maligning campaign against the army.
Rest I will leave you to decide.
A


All IK said was that India refused to criticize the Russians for the Ukrainian war. That is not a praise as such but in this maligning campaign everything is Halal. No one wants to even listen to the PTI high ups.
A

Araz bhai screw the twitter, PPl common ppl are pissed, tehy what happened taht night, they are seeing whats happeing now, its being talked on Busses, van, universities, markets. Its everywhere, Now the audacity of these coming on tv calling rest of retards, taking us for simpletons and white washing is not going to fly. All of sudden posters coming up saying do not fall forghair mulki agencies, beware of them its treason. I mean Who the **** they think we are, gal of them. WE ARE COMMITING TREASON????? for asking questions ppl before SHOULDVE ASKED!!!!!!!

 

[araz]

Araz bhai screw the twitter, PPl common ppl are pissed, tehy what happened taht night, they are seeing whats happeing now, its being talked on Busses, van, universities, markets. Its everywhere, Now the audacity of these coming on tv calling rest of retards, taking us for simpletons and white washing is not going to fly. All of sudden posters coming up saying do not fall forghair mulki agencies, beware of them its treason. I mean Who the **** they think we are, gal of them. WE ARE COMMITING TREASON????? for asking questions ppl before SHOULDVE ASKED!!!!!!!

Marey bhai.
You know me and also know Iam not of that age where I would get riled up.
Let us examine the facts and the decisions are yours to make.
Lots of Cock and bull stories about people coming and slapping IK. MAN DO YOU BELIEVE THAT Khan will take a slap and stay quiet! I have seen some pictures and these are blatantly untrue as the representation of bleeding pattern is wrong.
People are rightly pissed at the fact that he has been ousted for talking about the integrity of Pakistan. But the answer is by whom and where does the evidence lie?
All evidence bases its supposition on who stood to gain from IK OUSTER. Let us take the SUPPOSED culprits
Opposition....... HELL YES. However it needs proof.
ARMY......... No benefit either way. I think. Can be discussed further.
SC....... No benefit.
So you need to look at what is going on. It is not what the/street person is saying but what the educated are guessinv/saying.
Flip the coin on the other side and ask yourself
Who stands to gain by creating a rift between the army and the SC and the people?
Who stands to gain by weakening of the army and Supreme court by public condemnation?
I have talked to a lot of people who are more sensible than me and they are all saying the SC decision was right. Believe me if left unchallanged this decision would have come back and haunted PTI Later as the chairpersons 9f the other goons are far more corrupt than PTI.
EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING. We as muslims have faith not in Imran Khan but in Allah izza wa jal. He izza wa jal will make things better if we keep trying. This setback is good for IK and it will teach him a lot of good lessons for thenext time and InshaaAllah there will be a next time. We need to side up with him and help him by supporting him as the nation is doing and notfind escape goats in the army or the SC. THE REAL CULPRITS ARE THE GOONS IN POWER. They need to be kicked out and answer to the public for their crimes against Pakistan. There needs to be a public reckoning for the Zardaris the Shareefs and the Fazlus of Pakistan.
A

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Military has released official release they do not have a say in what KALA Coat did midnight

Let us hope the next step is announcement of Elections for benefit of National Cause

 

[GriffinsRule]

Patwaris forget that during the retard Sharif we didn't even have a FM. And India is leaps and bounds ahead of us in the quality of their foreign office cadre

 

[denel]

IK got a chance and he miserably failed!

my 2cents outside view. I think he was deliberately setup to fail.

If you look at Egypt; when Morsi came to power. It was my exact words to my fellow Egyptian friends, the Pharoahs have ruled Egypt for milleniums; the junta who is owning everything wont give up power - instead they will set him up to fail by ensuring he gets the 'right' people around him who facilitate that failure.

Morsi did not see the number of years IK did and the poor man died a horrible death on the hands of the brutal junta lead by sisi. At the time, those around will remember how even monies were not available for basic food; but then KSA/UAE etc instigated the coup and brought Sisi in and flushed his hand with monies.

It is regretful but reality is military juntas need to be focused on their role of defending the borders but i see Pak and Egypt mil in same light; they have built empires to enrich themselves. Then do you ask for any fairness from anyone.

Democracy is a two edge sword but give it time, it will get better.

 

[Rank]