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Operations in Dir and Buner

Pakistan Says It Killed 50 Taliban in a Clash, but Residents Say Civilians Died

By CARLOTTA GALL

PULO DAND, Pakistan — The Pakistani military said it had killed more than 50 Taliban fighters in tough fighting in Buner on Friday, but families pouring out of the district said civilians were being killed, too.

“People were asked not to leave their houses,” said Abdul Bakht, 40, a farmer from Ambela, who had fled here to the south. “But the problem is they have not fired on a single Talib yet. All they are doing is hitting the houses.”

He and other civilians caught in the operation, just in its fourth day, were already complaining of heavy-handed tactics by the Pakistani military, which has little training in counterinsurgency.

A military spokesman claimed steady progress in the operation but also said the militants were putting up fierce resistance.

The civilian complaints and the Taliban resistance pointed to the difficult task ahead for the military in driving the militants from Buner, a district just 60 miles from the capital, where hundreds of Taliban fighters advanced last week, setting off alarm here and abroad.

Trying to revive a peace accord with the Taliban from February, government officials restarted talks with Maulana Sufi Muhammad, the religious cleric who helped mediate the deal.

The provincial government said it was committed to appointing Islamic judges as part of the deal covering the Swat Valley and Buner. Maulana Muhammad, despite his protest at the military operation, promised the militants would lay down their weapons once Islamic law was in force.

But in what is clearly a two-pronged approach by the Pakistani authorities, military operations also intensified.

The military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, said forces had succeeded in opening up access from the west to Buner’s central town of Daggar and were close to linking up from the south after heavy fighting at the Ambela Pass.

At least 55 militants had been killed in fighting in the previous 24 hours, bringing the total killed so far to more than 100, he said. Two members of the paramilitary Frontier Corps were killed and eight wounded in a house rigged with explosives, he said.

Militants were using antiaircraft weapons mounted on cars and recoilless rifles, and army helicopters had focused attacks on militants in cars and motorcycles on the roads.

Yet accounts from people fleeing the region said that civilians were being caught up in the fighting in Ambela and on the roads. Taliban militants had strong positions in the hills and could still resist the military advance, they said.

Villagers traveled on foot and along country roads to reach this village in the neighboring district of Swabi on Friday, their belongings piled on small vans with women and children, and even cows, packed together inside.

Officials from Al Khidmat Foundation, a religious humanitarian organization assisting the families, said more than a thousand vehicles had ferried families out in just one day.

In one house that was hit, two children died, a woman lost both legs, and a man was so seriously wounded that the family had already dug his grave and were waiting for him to die, Mr. Bakht, the farmer, said.

Three men, who tried to drive toward the military to ask them to stop firing on the houses, were also killed when a helicopter fired rockets on their car, Mr. Bakht said. A fourth man was wounded.

Two of those killed were government school examiners from the nearby Swat Valley who were in Buner to conduct school examinations when the operation started. One of the dead men was a friend of Mr. Bakht’s.

“Instead of stopping the bombardment, they fired on the car,” he said. “There is still a curfew and their bodies are still there on the road.”

A laborer, Hakim Noor, said, “We thought if they can bring peace we are happy with the army but now it seems they are hitting houses.” He who left his village Kowgah two days ago.

His uncle Jamal Noor, who escaped the village on Friday, said there was shooting in the upper part of the village and helicopters were firing rockets at the houses. Helicopters were also landing in the hills behind where the Taliban had positions.

“Now they will increasingly hit the villages as now they think they are empty and the Taliban will come down into them,” Mr. Noor said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/02/world/asia/02pstan.html
Good Propaganda by Americans as if Pakistan Army Soldiers and Generals are bunch of idiots.When we are singing peace deals then we're in bed with terrorists and when we fight then we are killing Civilians.**** the Americans :usflag:..Just do whatever is best for Pakistan.
 
The US loves the process of

1) Call Pakistan as weak, incompetent, in bed with terrorists for not doing enough

2) When it acts in a major op, they then say they killed all the civilians.

I think they're trying to line something up here in the future.

Pakistan should do the minimal possible to contain any militancy within its borders. Nothing more.
 
Tactics???? What is that?:confused:

Am not MBBS, did my MD from outside India ........ so no idea if there is any chapter on combat engineersrs at all in Indian medical education:undecided:

I sure didnt have any such lessons apart from a subject on battlefield injuries and their management which i slept in.

Although I do think that Ichogill is not a great place across which IA would like to strike until and unless we have million men to spare ..... you will thoroughly cook us this time ................

however we do have speciifc interest in Sukkur Barrage ...... I wonder why?:undecided:

You will sure burninhell:enjoy:(pun)
 
The US loves the process of

1) Call Pakistan as weak, incompetent, in bed with terrorists for not doing enough

2) When it acts in a major op, they then say they killed all the civilians.

I think they're trying to line something up here in the future.

Pakistan should do the minimal possible to contain any militancy within its borders. Nothing more.

I agree fully. We should have our side of the border cleansed. That's in the best interest of Pakistan. The rule of law needs to be established in the volatile areas. Our terms and conditions should apply on our side. The Americans should be shown the exit door. Apart from blame games and cheap talk we haven't seen any concrete action on their part. Bring in China instead. We need to build and bring about prosperity in Baluchistan, NWFP and all across Pakistan. China has done far more for Pakistan. China and Pakistan share mutual regional interests. We share far more commonality with China. There is simply no more room left for any effective cooperation between Pakistan and the US. All options have been exhausted. There is nothing left to negotiate. There is no more transparency or trust between us. Whatever they wish to do in Afghanistan is their problem. No hard feelings... This is the only way to secure lasting peace in Pakistan.
 
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Good Propaganda by Americans as if Pakistan Army Soldiers and Generals are bunch of idiots.When we are singing peace deals then we're in bed with terrorists and when we fight then we are killing Civilians.**** the Americans :usflag:..Just do whatever is best for Pakistan.

Dont even bother replying saad, just look at who posted the news.
 
actually the impression which i get is that civillians have been killed in two cases
1. who violated the curfew (confusing them with talibans)
2. empty shells which fall on the houses also end up killin innocent

not much can be done when it comes to case one while in case two the heli pilot should make sure that he is not flyin over any houses before he fires
 
80 militants, TTP commander killed in Buner operation

Sunday, 03 May, 2009 | 04:44 PM PST |

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s army announced Sunday that 80 militants have so far been killed as the military offensive against Taliban fighters in northwest Buner district enters its fifth day, AFP reports.

Helicopter gunships and ground troops have been pounding militant hideouts in Buner and neighbouring Lower Dir district in a nearly week-long assault against Taliban insurgents who have infiltrated the volatile area.

The army had previously put the death toll in Buner at 55 to 60, and said that altogether more than 200 militants have been killed in both districts since Operation Black Thunder began.

‘In the Buner operation so far, 80 militants have been killed while three soldiers embraced shahadat (martyrdom) and eight others were injured,’ the military said in a written statement.

‘Reportedly militant commander Khalil has been killed in the Buner operation. His real name is Alam Buneri and he was a mainstream leader of the banned organisation TTP (Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan),’ it added.

Operation Commander in Buner briefs media

Meanwhile, Operation Commander in Buner Brigadier Fayyaz told reporters in Daggar that at least nine would-be suicide bomber have been arrested and 21 killed, according to DawnNews.

He said pockets of militants still exist as the security forces continued to face resistance. But he also predicted that military operations would

Brigadier Faiz told reporters that militants from Swat took control of Buner on April 21st when they started armed patrolling in various areas of the district. They robbed and ransacked government and NGO offices, he said

Dir

Meanwhile armed militants ransacked a bank in Timergara and kidnapped a Policeman in Chakdara area of Lower Dir.

In Maidan area militants set ablaze a residence of a policeman and kidnapped his son.

Security forces claim inflicting heavy casualties on militants in the ensuing gun battle in Maidan.

Humanitarian situation

International humanitarian and Pakistani officials have warned that up to one million people have been displaced in northwestern Pakistan.

NWFP officials have appealed for international relief.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | 80 militants, TTP commander killed in Buner operation
 
Peace can not be restored by killings in NWFP.GoP/PA and local tribes should find solution to restore peace.

Pushtoons are very good friends and very bad enemy just like Arabs.Love and friendship is most effective weapon againt them.
 
actually the impression which i get is that civillians have been killed in two cases
1. who violated the curfew (confusing them with talibans)
2. empty shells which fall on the houses also end up killin innocent

not much can be done when it comes to case one while in case two the heli pilot should make sure that he is not flyin over any houses before he fires

absolutely right. but then you have to accept few innocent lives will be lost. as long as your ultimate objective is achieved, IMO they shall be worth it and not weigh much on the national conscience.
 
Peace can not be restored by killings in NWFP.GoP/PA and local tribes should find solution to restore peace.

Pushtoons are very good friends and very bad enemy just like Arabs.Love and friendship is most effective weapon againt them.

i have always been in favour of talks. army operation is the last thing which one should do... but now u tell that wat happened after we signed a peace deal??? did taliban keep their word or layin down arms??
i think now there is no more space for talks. all the pakistanis know that gov did opt for talks and did keep their word of implementing shariah. but talibans took this as weakness of GoP and started moving into other areas. military operation had become necessary at this stage and rit now i stand by my Gov. and her policy...
 
absolutely right. but then you have to accept few innocent lives will be lost. as long as your ultimate objective is achieved, IMO they shall be worth it and not weigh much on the national conscience.

yes i accept it. but Gov should make sure that they are only few.
you do end up killin few gud body cells when killing bad ones but make sure u dont kill the whole body to get rid of few bad ones;)
 
i have always been in favour of talks. army operation is the last thing which one should do... but now u tell that wat happened after we signed a peace deal??? did taliban keep their word or layin down arms??
i think now there is no more space for talks. all the pakistanis know that gov did opt for talks and did keep their word of implementing shariah. but talibans took this as weakness of GoP and started moving into other areas. military operation had become necessary at this stage and rit now i stand by my Gov. and her policy...

Agreed,we need comprehensive strategy ,why dont we use political power and people's power by activating shariah clauses already mentioned in constitution.
I think in this way they have no issue to motivate and induct new blood.
Even complete shariah law approved by nation assembly ,it does not mean that Pakistan is islamic state ,it need implementation which can be done in phases slowly.

Talaban jahtaka style of islam is acutally creating more problem for islamic world.
 
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Agreed,we need comprehensive strategy ,why dont we use political power and people's power by activating shariah clauses already mentioned in constitution.
I think in this way they have no issue to motivate and induct new blood.
Only iron can cut iron.

that is exactly wat we are doing. NAR was only implemented to gain ppls support. most of the ppl who were previously backin talibans for shariah are now standing against talibans coz GoP has fulfilled their demand. now that the ppl are on our side and talibans are still not giving up their weapons, its time for wat u said 'only iron can cut iron'. we have isolated these talibans to the maximum possible extent. now its time to used force and crush them with the help of locals.
 
yes i accept it. but Gov should make sure that they are only few.
you do end up killin few gud body cells when killing bad ones but make sure u dont kill the whole body to get rid of few bad ones;)

very difficult for GoP to ensure it stays low. only way is that you have greater luck and PA manages to employ minimal force. anyways seeingthe nature of terrain and relatively less density of population, i think we can expect non-combatant casulties at a very low level which shall go a long way in boosting PA's image in eyes of the population there, a very necessary thing.
 

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