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I actually supported it, since long. But i was of opinion that both good and bad taliban should be targated. Supporting people like sajna, creates the impression in the 'awam' that pak army is playing double games and is not sincere. I also raised the question that why haqqani network was spared (and supported) when they are involved in the Afghanistan with exactly same tactics like TTP e.g suicide bombings, assassinations, blast at civilians etc.
I was also of opinion that full scale military operation, after full evacuation of civilians, is preferable to surgical and reteliatory strikes in the presence of population which causes huge collateral damages. Moreover NW was a mess, as it had large presence of military as well as militants, due to which life there was paralyzed due to curfews, collateral damages etc.
I also have different views on drone strikes compared to you folk. I have always considered drone strikes 100 times better than jet bombardments. I was the first one on this forum to claim that people of waziristan are not against highly precised drone strikes but reteliatory military strikes and shellings. Both ayaz wazir and rustam shah mohmand, with whom i have contacts, share this views with me.
I am of opinion that this op, would be success on pattren of SW op 2009, but it wont end TTP. It is war of decades and the roots of it are madrassas and poverty.
This approach , naturally, would gave me label of being terrorist supporter and traitor in a fauji forum.
It does not. You have valid points. However the good and the bad taliban story line has come as a result of the dynamics in Afghanistan. As in any country, some people believe, like you do otherwise, that Pakistan should support some and not make an enemy out of everyone. There is weight in both sides of the argument.

TTP has to be defeated in the cities. This is where they get their funding and find refuge and recuperate. Pacification of NWA will at least deny the foot soldiers the space for planning, training and staging for the TTP sanctioned missions. So both steps are needed.
 
It will end with an all out defeat for the army,they will try their best to come out with excuses,They are actually already making them up and seriously speaking who believes in the ISPR figures...300 killed ? give me a break

All out defeat of the army....Lol.The army has pledged only 30,000 troops to the operation of a potential 550,000 active personnel. There is absolutely no question of defeat.
 
The question here being, that even if Afghanistan does help TTP, can you with hand on heart claim that Pakistan does not in the same manner and from time much before TTP came into existence has been helping Afghan Taliban, who have a similar status as TTP
Fun little fact, it was Afghanistan that started the proxy war with Pakistan, but I will fully admit that Pakistan has supported proxies in Afghanistan, though there was much regret, considering the Taliban ended up stabbing Pakistan in the back, before the 9/11 tragedy. Pakistan supported them, because it wanted a stable Afghanistan (which the Taliban did end up bringing, even if it was brutal), and a government in Afghanistan that recognized the border between the two (which, sadly, every successive government in Afghanistan has rejected, including the Taliban).
 
So what is the problem with entering FATA? What if the Army brings with it development? Becoming part of the war on terror is not an ongoing narrative. It happened and Pakistan has moved on. Most of Pakistan does not even buy this story that Pakistan is fighting America's war any longer given the immense cost to Pakistanis themselves at the hands of the militants. Perhaps the supporters of TTP will continue to peddle this story, but the stark reality is that the moment the TTP turned its guns on the GoP in the name of fighting for shariat, they lost the battle of minds with the majority of Pakistani population. Of all the Muslim countries, Pakistan's laws can never be against or contrary to those laid down by sharia. Yet despite this, these fringe groups want to shove THEIR own version of interpreted sharia on the rest of Pakistan and this won't work. Appeasement has not worked, surrender to them is not an option. The middle ground is to inflict as much pain on them as they want to mete out. For the longest side, the people and the government of Pakistan have been on the receiving end. For the sake of the future of the tribals, they cannot allow their own tribesmen to turn extremist or support outside extremists in their attempts to overthrow the government in Islamabad.

The Tank is indeed a T-59 with some protection added for the machinegunner's cupola.
The Problem was not entering FATA the problem was the way you entered FATA and on whose orders you entered FATA that was the problem you became tool of kufar to mass murder Muslims you even handed over there ambassador to USA you killed them and handed bases to USA to allow them to kill Muslims and get away with it you kept on doing it so the reaction which came in FATA was completely expected
 
I actually supported it, since long. But i was of opinion that both good and bad taliban should be targated. Supporting people like sajna, creates the impression in the 'awam' that pak army is playing double games and is not sincere. I also raised the question that why haqqani network was spared (and supported) when they are involved in the Afghanistan with exactly same tactics like TTP e.g suicide bombings, assassinations, blast at civilians etc.
I was also of opinion that full scale military operation, after full evacuation of civilians, is preferable to surgical and reteliatory strikes in the presence of population which causes huge collateral damages. Moreover NW was a mess, as it had large presence of military as well as militants, due to which life there was paralyzed due to curfews, collateral damages etc.
I also have different views on drone strikes compared to you folk. I have always considered drone strikes 100 times better than jet bombardments. I was the first one on this forum to claim that people of waziristan are not against highly precised drone strikes but reteliatory military strikes and shellings. Both ayaz wazir and rustam shah mohmand, with whom i have contacts, share this views with me.
I am of opinion that this op, would be success on pattren of SW op 2009, but it wont end TTP. It is war of decades and the roots of it are madrassas and poverty.
This approach , naturally, would gave me label of being terrorist supporter and traitor in a fauji forum.

Isn't NW last strong hold of TTP? Yes extremists will exist but no longer save heaven like NW. What do you think about that?
 
The Problem was not entering FATA the problem was the way you entered FATA and on whose orders you entered FATA that was the problem you became tool of kufar to mass murder Muslims you even handed over there ambassador to USA you killed them and handed bases to USA to allow them to kill Muslims and get away with it you kept on doing it so the reaction which came in FATA was completely expected

So what do you expect, American Soldiers in FATA or Pakistani soldiers in FATA? Don't give that nonsensical reply FATA would have taken care of Americans, When Afghani taliban couldn't done that, then how FATA could ?
 
So what do you expect, American Soldiers in FATA or Pakistani soldiers in FATA? Don't give that nonsensical reply FATA would have taken care of Americans, When Afghani taliban couldn't done that, then how FATA could ?
If Afghani Taliban could't do it how come USA is running away How come Taliban are still there more powerful than ever How come whole world can see these Afghan Army jokers can't survive for long they will fall and when USA leaves completely Kabul will fall too and if start being hostile because of what you did to them after 2001 you are looking at decades of more trouble ahead of you
 
Isn't NW last strong hold of TTP? Yes extremists will exist but no longer save heaven like NW. What do you think about that?
NW is not exactly stronghold of TTP but it has significant presence there, the area is basically under gul bahadur group. Mamonzai tehsil of orakzai and tirah are under TTP. This is not exactly the last operation.
 
NW is not exactly stronghold of TTP but it has significant presence there, the area is basically under gul bahadur group. Mamonzai tehsil of orakzai and tirah are under TTP. This is not exactly the last operation.

Today gul bahadur declared war against PA. How many men he have?
 
No point being pessimistic - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

No point being pessimistic
By Abbas Nasir

WHETHER the prime minister was subdued or (as was not the case) animated when he announced the start of the military operations in the North Waziristan Agency is immaterial; whether he had the ownership thrust upon him or took the initiative himself also doesn’t matter.

What does count is the huge responsibility that has now come to rest on his shoulders.
Not just the prime minister’s but on every single element of his huge political machine or the PML-N party if you will. Equally, the PPP, ANP and MQM can enthusiastically endorse the operations and the PTI reluctantly — none of them can afford to stay aloof now.

The operation in North Waziristan, to my mind, is but a tiny piece of the jigsaw which has to fall into place in a much, much larger puzzle, a seemingly insurmountable challenge that represents the fight against militancy, and the radicalisation that fuels it, in the country.

One can run out of breath counting the contributing factors and have yet barely scratched the surface. But we have to list some key ones in order to address these. First and foremost is really the need to gauge the pulse of the people and ensure a public buy-in into the measures that have been initiated.

How do we do that? Admittedly, it isn’t easy but it isn’t rocket science either. Even if most of the major political parties in the country, representing the bulk of the voting public, have conspired to thwart the staging of local elections all is not lost.

There aren’t any local councillors at the grass-roots level. However, we do have over 1,000 public representatives elected to different houses including the provincial assemblies. The budgets have been presented and likely to be approved without much ado.

As soon as that happens would the parties consider a consensus adjournment of all houses, particularly if there isn’t a pressing legislative agenda waiting to be taken up, and one isn’t aware of any, in order to facilitate the return of all elected members to their constituencies?

These members can then launch themselves into a mass contact effort, explaining to their constituents the significance of the existential fight the country is facing today and to hammer home the message that losing this battle isn’t an option.

Political workers, led by their elected leaders, would then need to spread out to every single street, nook and cranny in the country to mobilise public opinion. It is of paramount importance, and I must admit I don’t know how it would be done, to win over as many prayer leaders as possible in the country too.

If a large enough mobilisation of political workers is carried out, I suspect, some of these prayer leaders would be more amenable to pleas that they carry a message of peace and amity in their interactions formal and informal with those under their influence.

And the law must take its course in the case of those who refuse to see sense and remain committed to infecting society with hate ideologies and push people towards the path of radicalisation, militancy, murder and mayhem.


This is just one way for political parties, which tirelessly and rightly chant the ‘democracy is great’ mantra, to show their commitment to preserving the democratic order and saving it from collapse at the hands of armed militants who solely rely on hate ideology and brutal violence to further their goals.

The central as well as the provincial governments will hopefully concentrate on beefing up the intelligence and operational capacity of the police force as only this force can deal with challenges to the established authority by armed hordes in the urban centres in the long term. It isn’t the army’s job which can continue to offer backup.

It is incumbent on the civilian leadership to ensure that criminal distractions such as the one created by the Punjab police assault on Dr Tahirul Qadri’s Minhajul Quran headquarters in Lahore, which resulted in tragic and wholly unnecessary loss of life, never happen again.

While many may have reservations about what makes the religious scholar tick, his political agenda, even his likely backers, it must be clear that his is a voice against militancy and intolerance. He may be irritating at worst, but doesn’t pose the existential threat the TTP does. That’s where the focus should remain.

The fight against extremism is going to be a long-drawn-out affair, testing everyone’s nerves and resolve. Even then the government must remain focused on making incremental efforts at improving the security situation, steadily working on getting the economy growing, creating jobs, side by side with moving towards a halfway decent health and education provision system.

Whosoever you ask in the street says their main issue is provision of justice. A reform of the justice system is long overdue. Heroic and proactive members of the superior judiciary can take more and more interest in the common person’s cases but will never compensate for a largely dysfunctional system at the lower levels.

This, hopefully, will be tackled on a war footing. Once steps are under way to tie all loose ends at home, the government will need to move to stem the flow of foreign funds, regardless of their origin, to militants or organisations that support the extremist cause.

During a discussion with a friend, who rarely minces his words, on the current state of play, I happened to share this wish list. His response: “Then you woke up.” This indeed seemed the case on reading Ismail Khan’s painful report in yesterday’s edition of Dawn on how the North Waziristan IDPs have been attended to so far.

Hopefully, the criticism in such reports is quickly taken on board and the situation rectified. No point being pessimistic and looking at the scenario if such reports are ignored.

The writer is a former editor of Dawn.

abbas.nasir@hotmail.com

Published in Dawn, June 21st, 2014
 
Fun little fact, it was Afghanistan that started the proxy war with Pakistan, but I will fully admit that Pakistan has supported proxies in Afghanistan, though there was much regret, considering the Taliban ended up stabbing Pakistan in the back, before the 9/11 tragedy. Pakistan supported them, because it wanted a stable Afghanistan (which the Taliban did end up bringing, even if it was brutal), and a government in Afghanistan that recognized the border between the two (which, sadly, every successive government in Afghanistan has rejected, including the Taliban).
Just one thought. I dont think the reason for Pakistan supporting Taliban as their proxy in Afghanistan had anything to do with it wanting a stable Afghanistan :)
 
Just one thought. I dont think the reason for Pakistan supporting Taliban as their proxy in Afghanistan had anything to do with it wanting a stable Afghanistan :)
Actually, it was a dual objective. Originally, the proxies were used to warn Afghanistan to stop meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs (border dispute, Pashtunistan demand, Afghan support of BLA terrorists). When the communist government fell, and the civil war began, the Taliban ended up being the only party that had the influence and power to bring stability to Pakistan's western border. Stability would mean that millions of refugees could finally go back home, which almost happened, so Pakistan naturally supported the party that seemed the most capable of bringing some sort of peace. Of course, the Indian side started supporting the Norther Alliance, which screwed up the entire process, and slowed things down, and I can tell you right now, if the 9/11 attacks never happened, the Taliban would be in complete control of Afghanistan.
 
Actually, it was a dual objective. Originally, the proxies were used to warn Afghanistan to stop meddling in Pakistan's internal affairs (border dispute, Pashtunistan demand, Afghan support of BLA terrorists). When the communist government fell, and the civil war began, the Taliban ended up being the only party that had the influence and power to bring stability to Pakistan's western border. Stability would mean that millions of refugees could finally go back home, which almost happened. Of course, the Indian side started supporting the Norther Alliance, which screwed up the entire process, and slowed things down, and I can tell you right now, if the 9/11 attacks never happened, the Taliban would be in complete control of Afghanistan.
Its always a He said, She said, but the civil war in afghanistan started quite some time after the soviets left and the angle of Pakistan was always the strategic depth against India by ensuring a puppet regime in Afghanistan which got India into the mix thru the NA. Unfortunately the puppet selection did not work well and they not only screwed themselves up by supporting the 9/11 attacks, but also took Pakistan down with them
 
Its always a He said, She said, but the civil war in afghanistan started quite some time after the soviets left and the angle of Pakistan was always the strategic depth against India by ensuring a puppet regime in Afghanistan which got India into the mix thru the NA. Unfortunately the puppet selection did not work well and they not only screwed themselves up by supporting the 9/11 attacks, but also took Pakistan down with them
It's not a he said she said situation at all, it's about historical facts. Your thinking starts during the soviet invasion, when it should start at the birth of Pakistan. Afghanistan twice tried to launch military operations inside Pakistan, and twice they failed. The Afghans started talking about Pashtunistan under Afghan President Daud Khan, and how the Pakistan tribal area and Baluchistan should be given independence. They started supporting Baluchi insurgents, with the help of the soviets, in fact, you'll notice that all the Baluchi separatist leaders at the time were marxists, with many having gone to Russian universities.

Here is a small excerpt from a yale university paper about the history of Pakistan and Afghanistan that no one likes to talk about, that you might find interesting:

Page 40; Paragraphs 3-4:


Immediately after Pakistan emerged, Afghanistan put forward a demand for the creation of an independent “Pashtunistan,” meaning “land of the Pashtuns.” The idea was that Pakistan should allow the Pashtuns in the northwestern part of their country to—if they
so chose—secede and become an independent state. Though the size of the envisioned Pashtunistan differed over time, Afghanistan’s proposals frequently encompassed about half of West Pakistan, including areas dominated by Baluch majorities.

Though these demands were framed as supportive of
Pashtun national independence, they were in fact irredentist.
If Pashtunistan came to exist, it probably wouldn’t remain
independent for long, as it would be a fragile and essentially
defenseless state. The historical linkage between the Pashtuns
and Afghanistan would likely dictate a merger of Pashtunistan
into Afghanistan. And even if Pakistan never acceded to the
Pashtunistan demand, Afghanistan had essentially staked
its claim to that area if the Pakistani state were to fail. The
incorporation of Pashtunistan and the majority Baluch areas
into Afghanistan would, in turn, solve one of Afghanistan’s
major strategic weaknesses—the fact that it’s a landlocked
state. The Baluch majority areas would give Afghanistan
access to the Arabian Sea.

So no, you're completely wrong on this issue, not because I'm tell you that you're wrong, but because history is telling you that you're wrong.
 

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