Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[S-2]

"Why would you take so long to address a single post of mine?"

Forgive me, sahib!

Curb your impatience and impertinence...

Thanks.

 

[Xeric]

Guys do read the thread:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-published-hilal-military-mag-jan-2010-a.html

Meanwhile an extract from the article: (Xeric for S-2, comments please, over)

Afrah Jamal: PAF: Both Sides of the COIN Published In HILAL(Military Mag) Jan 2010

PAF: Both Sides of the COIN Published In HILAL(Military Mag) Jan 2010


..........The Flip Side of the PAF COIN

In order to judge PAF’s COIN capability one must consider the following. In the absence of a ground-to-air threat virtually any type of combat aircraft can do the job. But manned fighters are costly to operate. Of the four variables in COIN equation (surveillance, reconnaissance, air attacks and air mobility), Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV)’s or drones as they are affectionately referred to, have been deemed perfect for surveillance, their armed counterparts Predators/Reapers are ideal for their rapid response to emergent threats. But first PAF’s sorority sisters, (in this case – the USAF) need to be convinced that handing over such an advanced technology is in our joint interest. It would give the PAF 24/7 surveillance capability for one. It would provide the lightning quick ability to react as soon as the target or his hidey hole is identified. And more importantly, it would take the heat off the sovereignty issue.

Analysts agree that dedicated slow speed ground attack aircraft (A-10 Warthog, Marine Harrier), gunship (AC130), would give the much needed loiter time. The Warthog is a rugged COIN bird, cheap to operate, easy to fly, with longer loiter time; and it can take off/land anywhere; the complete opposite of the magnificent F-16, in fact. While preference has been shown for the AC-130 gunship - a potent COIN weapon with accurate direct fire weapons which minimize risk of collateral damage, it is the more powerful gunship helicopter that one defence expert would put at the top of the wish list.

The protracted nature of COIN warfare puts a heavy demand on resources. The continuity of these operations is inextricably tied to a guaranteed logistical support. Heavy reliance on Western assistance can be a double edged sword. PAF Mirages and F-7’s already serve as makeshift COIN aircraft. And if the PAF were to completely rely on its own resources, some even believe that an old faithful (A-5) can take over; and if they cannot be equipped with LGB’s, they do not need to be for not every target requires an 18,000$ SMART bomb. Sometimes, kinetic weaponry (dud bombs) make just as effective missiles.

Is the PAF COIN capable? According to one PAF personnel, PAF is as COIN capable as the next fella. The F-16 from our current inventory with its dedicated air-to-ground capability comes in handy when the quarry is a fleeting target of opportunity. Lockheed Martin has reportedly been contracted with the upgrade of 34 F-16A/B Block 15 fighters with modern weapons and sensors . The fleet of F-16 Block 52’s has been scheduled for delivery. An advanced weapons package has been requested and an indigenously produced, cheaper version of F-16, the JF-17 proudly waits in the wings. Ultimately, the JF-17’s will be integrated as the main workhorse.

While the PAF may not be waging a textbook COIN campaign, its presently evolving doctrine is customized around the peculiar operating environment. By making COIN an integral part of its recently held annual war games ‘Saffron Bandit 2009-10’, PAF joins in to wrest the initiative away from an enemy that has a clear head start. High Mark 2010 – a joint exercise scheduled for next year will take the PAK Army-Air force partnership up a notch. The battle for Pakistan has begun in earnest. And it is a fight to the finish.

Acknowledgement: Air/Cdre (R) Sajad Haider & Air/Cdre(R). Kaiser Tufail

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I gave up stethoscope in 1996, I have been "Staring At Goats" since then.

splendid

You will ask give me for the proof, and i shall say that it takes something to become a monk and to be able to "Stare At Goats" and for the rest..... there is always a google.

I was asking you to propose a good answer, keeping in mind that you dubbed 2 previous ones as "bad post"

I didn't get the part about monks or "staring at goats" however; are you in northamptonshire or in london proper???


tell me about the goats in Afghanistan, it is my understanding that you have some experience there

 

[Dr-Sangeen]

I have been contributing to this forum for almost two months now. During this i time i have fought with the sheer arrogance of the moderators and admins of this forum.

The final straw was when they closed my welcome thread, as some of my friends were posting there.

I asked them for a reason and the reply was and i quote " i shall consider myself lucky that it was allowed for that long..."

No I don't consider myself lucky at all, they shall consider themselves lucky that people, like myself, waste their time by posting on this web page.

As far as i am concern if my welcome thread is not good enough to be here then they don't deserve to have my other contributions to this forum either.

Hence i am withdrawing all my posts from this forum.

 

[Dr-Sangeen]

I have been contributing to this forum for almost two months now. During this i time i have fought with the sheer arrogance of the moderators and admins of this forum.

The final straw was when they closed my welcome thread, as some of my friends were posting there.

I asked them for a reason and the reply was and i quote " i shall consider myself lucky that it was allowed for that long..."

No I don't consider myself lucky at all, they shall consider themselves lucky that people, like myself, waste their time by posting on this web page.

As far as i am concern if my welcome thread is not good enough to be here then they don't deserve to have my other contributions to this forum either.

Hence i am withdrawing all my posts from this forum.

 

[S-2]

"...otherwise i have tested the water and need not to jump in again."

Ah...an enigmatic one.

Bad post.

A pleasure making your brief acquaintance. Until another time and place...

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"But first PAF’s sorority sisters, (in this case – the USAF) need to be convinced that handing over such an advanced technology is in our joint interest."

I'm not entirely opposed to the transfer of PREDATOR to PAF. My concerns are normal-technology transfer of sensitive equipment not yet demonstrated by the PLAAF.

No doubt you'd use this equipment. No reason not to do so. Would it be used to our benefit as well? It benefits us that you fight the TTP. That seems self-evident.

It would also, however, benefit us if this equipment were used against the afghan taliban. That is more problematic. Pakistan may not. Further, having acquired such a capability, Pakistan might cease its intelligence contributions to our efforts. What that might be, however it's been speculated, is unknown by all here. We can presume reasonably, though, its value. Worst, of course, would be Pakistan's active resistance to our continued use over FATAville.

PREDATOR remains our preferred option to assert our right to self-defense in lieu of Pakistan taking firm control over all of its sovereign responsibilities. In the absence of such, we prefer this capability over others at our disposal.

I suspect Pakistan can easily find itself with PREDATOR as part of PAF's air-fleet at anytime after demonstrating a clear intent to eject the afghan taliban leadership and their associates from your lands. The trust which such would generate among ALL Americans (not just our leaders) would be considerable.

I hope that is what you were asking about.

Thanks.

 

[Xeric]

"But first PAF’s sorority sisters, (in this case – the USAF) need to be convinced that handing over such an advanced technology is in our joint interest."

I'm not entirely opposed to the transfer of PREDATOR to PAF. My concerns are normal-technology transfer of sensitive equipment not yet demonstrated by the PLAAF.

No doubt you'd use this equipment. No reason not to do so. Would it be used to our benefit as well? It benefits us that you fight the TTP. That seems self-evident.

It would also, however, benefit us if this equipment were used against the afghan taliban. That is more problematic. Pakistan may not. Further, having acquired such a capability, Pakistan might cease its intelligence contributions to our efforts. What that might be, however it's been speculated, is unknown by all here. We can presume reasonably, though, its value. Worst, of course, would be Pakistan's active resistance to our continued use over FATAville.

PREDATOR remains our preferred option to assert our right to self-defense in lieu of Pakistan taking firm control over all of its sovereign responsibilities. In the absence of such, we prefer this capability over others at our disposal.

I suspect Pakistan can easily find itself with PREDATOR as part of PAF's air-fleet at anytime after demonstrating a clear intent to eject the afghan taliban leadership and their associates from your lands. The trust which such would generate among ALL Americans (not just our leaders) would be considerable.

I hope that is what you were asking about.

Thanks.

Lolz..

S-2 what went wrong dear?

You mean you would be giving us the birds once we have cleaned up your mess? You mean you would give them to us so that we can use it against india, right?

Seriously, what went wrong with Uncle Sam's brain? On one side you show 'reservations' that we might 'misuse' the technology, same kinda assertions were shown by the indians, and now you bound us with show-results-and-take-the-candy thing?

Let's not keep the carrots too high, they rot, seriously!

P.S. Give it another try

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Kahir ba shee Orora Khair ba shee. Zama taqrar sta sara nuh day, ao nuh taqrar kawal may maqsad day

agha ma da na day weili che mo jagara kawo. Eto sa tajorba wa afghanistn k. Mo pukhtana ala jang kawo kala pakor e.Emo dekman india day aur us darwagh aur corruption day.

I am just knocking S-2 to see if there is anything in it

Simply put, it is important to have long memory spans. As the days go by and one gets older and a bit wiser, one learns that it is CRIMINAL to neglect HISTORY and treat it the way you treat a spent cigarette or bullet casing --- just flicking it away and forgetting about it


No sir. You cannot do that. A failed Afghanistan strategy and outlook means a failing war. Scapegoat'ing and denying ones short-comings is recipe for more problems and less solutions (in an already unstable and trigger-happy region)

 

[S-2]

"Dear"?

Save it for your wife.

"You mean you would be giving us the birds once we have cleaned up your mess?"

What part of "...demonstrating..." didn't you understand?

Thanks.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

whats the point of selling such technology at any later point?

I dont think it has anything to do with China or Chengdu industries. It has more to do with USA not wanting to irritate indians prior to a potential tender for MRCA deal (i could be wrong though)


i hate to say it, but I'm kind of starting to wish that the Republicans ran the White House.

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

US drone attacks could hurt ties, says Pakistan

Wednesday, 13 Jan, 2010

ISLAMABAD: Intensified US drone aircraft attacks or ground operations against Islamist militants in Pakistan could endanger relations between the two allies, Pakistan's foreign minister said on Wednesday.

Tension over pilotless drone aircraft attacks will likely deepen as the CIA hunts down enemies along the border after a suicide bomber crossed over Pakistan's border and killed seven of its employees in Afghanistan.

Pakistan officially objects to the strikes against suspected al Qaeda and Taliban militants along its northwest, saying they violate its sovereignty.

The attacks have also created fierce anti-American sentiment in Pakistan, a key ally Washington sees as a front-line state in its war on militancy.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said after meeting US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke that some very clear “red lines” were discussed.

“I said despite the partnership that we enjoy, Pakistan cannot, and Pakistan feels that it will undermine our relationship, if there's expansion of drones and if there are operations on ground,” he told a news conference.

The United States has stepped up its drone attacks since the double agent blew himself up at a US base in Afghanistan on Dec. 30, killing seven CIA agents.

American officials say the drones are an effective weapon against militants.

Islamabad has pushed Washington to provide it with the drones to allow it to carry out its own attacks on Taliban insurgents, a move that could ease anti-American sentiment in Pakistan.

WORRY OVER EXPANSION

US officials say the strikes are carried out under an agreement with Islamabad that allows Pakistani leaders to criticise them in public. Pakistan denies any such agreement.

The drone strikes have been limited to Pakistan's ethnic Pashtun tribal regions near the Afghan border, semi-autonomous lands believed to be sanctuaries for al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

What Pakistan worries most about is a possible expansion of drone attacks to the southwestern province of Balochistan, where the Pakistani government already faces a low-level insurgency from rebels seeking autonomy.

Washington believes Afghan Taliban leaders are hiding there.

Pakistan is fighting its own homegrown Taliban insurgency and has resisted intense US pressure to go after the Afghan Taliban, who do not attack in Pakistan and who Pakistan sees as assets which give it leverage against the influence of old rival India in Afghanistan.

Relations became seriously strained between the allies when US commandos raided a border village in South Waziristan and killed 20 people, including women and children, on September 3, 2008.

Pakistan later closed down the main supply route through Pakistan for US and NATO forces in Afghanistan, saying the move was based on security reasons. –Reuters


Source : http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...+attacks+could+hurt+ties%2C+says+pakistan

 

[razgriz19]

In MW2 [i know its a game but...] to shoot down the UAV's they use this weapon:

Its a javelin...

its an anti-tank missile, not a SAM

 

[FreekiN]

its an anti-tank missile

Yeah, I found out the javelin doesn't work on UAV's in the game. Rather the 'stingers' do.

 

[Barrett]

Stinger can hit its target at approx 11,000 ft even the latest Stinger-RMP Block II, also known as Advanced Stinger has an effective range of about 8000 m (26000 ft). Now that is still not enough to hit the US drones flying at 30,000 ft.
COD MW2 is only a game where one person defeats armies on his own.