Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[courageneverdies]

Advancing from 3 directions.... Destination Makeen. Hope it will go good and smooth.

BOL PA

KIT Out

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Just heard today morning that Waziristan Operation has been started and army is now trying to evacuate citizens. I also heard four soldiers died today and 8 are wounded, according to Sky News.

Can i please request the Members of this forum to come in this thread and show our support for our Jawaans. And most importantly please pray for our 'brave soldiers' who are risking their lives to protect our 'beautiful nation'. The very least we can do is to pray for their well being.

May Allah (swt) Protect our Soldiers from these scums and give us Success (with minimum casualities) in this Operation. May our Fallen Heroes be awarded a beautiful place in Jannat. Ameen. May Allah also protect our Nation from those scums who wish to destroy it. AMEEN

GO Pakistan Army - We fully Support you from bottom of our hearts and wish you Good Luck. We are behind you ! Please Finish these scums off.

 

[pakdefender]

I want to see mince meat and kababs made of these scum bags!

Finish them Off!

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Terrorist time have come and their 'so called Shahdat' will be awarded to them very soon. And this time we will hit them hard, right up in their ar**. InshAllah Pakistan Army will fire bullets right up in their heads & ar***. They will soon be sent to their 'beautiful home', which ofcourse is HELL. Their grave is waiting for them and here Pak Army is getting ready to 'depart them'.

May our Jawaans be Successful in this Operation. Ameen.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Dear Taimikhan

Whereas you are right on the mark in respect of infantry fighting formations in a division; “”Brigade = 3units = 800*3= 2400 approx
One Div = 3 Brigades = 3*2400 = 7200 approx””

Your description of TO&E of a division is obviously flawed. During active operations, Organizational and support elements are actually higher in number than the fighting formations. They include:
 Headquarter / Staff elements
 Artillery
 Armor
 Signals
 Air Defense
 Reconnaissance
 Logistics & Supply
 Medical Services
 Combat Engineers

Therefore your average full strength division is not 7200, but close to about 14-15,000.

In war time the headquarter & staff members are not at full strength as many of the officers are sent to their parent units or wherever required to boost the officer strength in the unit. Only necessary & critical staff is left. Artillery is already there, around 2 -3 regiments & they are not placed at one place, scattered around different bases. Armor is there but not in full strength as a typical army unit when fighting on the eastern front, also around 80+ tanks have been provided to the FC too. Air Defense isn't there as this is COIn not a conventional war, signals guys are attached in company sized not full strength. There are no reconnaissance troops, as this task is done by the troops already involved in operations or in the units in their operating sectors. Medical Services are also in few hundreds as no full fledged military hospitals there, critical wounded are air lifted to nearby main garrisons. Same case with the rest of the arms as this is no eastern border. Plus, if you read my post i did mentioned few thousands to be added for support arms in these divisions, i guess you missed that part. In no way your division has 14000-15000 troops as it will make the support arms number equal to the fighting formations or near to that.

South Waziristan operation underway amid curfew
DAWN: Saturday, 17 Oct, 2009
“”The official said three divisions of the military, paramilitary and police would be mobilised, eventually numbering up to 60,000 troops, to spearhead a lightning campaign before winter set in””.

And sometimes the divisions are not up to full strength of 3 brigades, even brigades are not with full 3 units, this is based on operational requirements. They are using the word "eventually", which i believe they mean to say in future, not right now.

In addition you have to consider the following factors:
1. How long can you keep the combat formations in the self created “war zone”? You got to rotate them? You got to have reserves.
2. Some formations will go under strength due to casualties and combat losses.
3. These are Aviation intensive operations. The workhorse is MI-17. Due to excessive abuse during Swat operations we have run out of spares and most airframes are due to overhaul. Recently the US Army transferred two (2) Afghan Army MI-17’s to absorb the crushing burden.

In simple words Pakistan Army has no choice but to move fighting formations and support elements (especially aviation) from the Indian border.

This is a serious vulnerability, because in the event of tensions on the Eastern Border PA does not have the flexibility to move the FATA deployed troops. We are no more as “India Centric” as we wish to call it. In simple words we have “lost” the equivalent of about eight (8) divisions!

The normal tenure of operational tenure of any unit in such COIN situation is around 1 year, can be extended by any other 6 months too. Plus army has its own system of rotating the units when their operational tenures are over ranging from 1 years to 3 years depending on the station posted. There are some units who are stationed at the same station for over a decade due to their operational capability. Army does not have reserves for such things, the units who have completed their tenures at peace time stations are sent to replace the units who have fought & done with their time.

The reserve brigades with each division deployed in SWA is for the reason that in case a units gets reduced in numbers, they can be helped with the units in reserve formations, plus as per my information, in one incident most of the officers of a unit where injured in one big operation, that unit was then put administratively & operationally under the command of another unit, till their officers did not returned to active status.

Do you think PA is that stupid to be using all of their spares, even the war reserves on such small operations ?? Or stupid enough to have used all of their Mi-17s at the same time ?? Come on yaar itnaa bhi stupid & underestimate naa karo PA ko. As for Aviation, PA has expanded the fleet considerably, it was at one time short of experienced pilots, the unit in which my bro is serving saw 4 officers leaving for aviation in less then 2 years time, while in the units 40 years existence only 1 officer had been selected before. So as the aviation has expanded, they have utilized the expansion by efficient deployment & have not compromised the fleet assigned for eastern borders. Just see how many news helicopters we have gotten, around 25 412s, all 25 Pumas operational, additional super pumas from UAE, more Mi-17s, Fennecs, AW-139 coming, more then 20 Cobras. So kindly don't go on the press reports as they are meant for pressurizing the Americans to keep the flow coming so that we don't have to touch our war reserves.

If you remember in 2001 crises, the whole army was nearly mobilized in 2 weeks time, even the far flung formations of Quetta & Peshawar reached the borders. Plus, for deploying to Indian border, most of the formations have been taken out from Punjab based reserve formations & they are very near to Punjab border & in no time can be redeployed to their operational areas. 1 week at the max. Plus out of 550,000 army, if around 30,000 have been assigned here won't make any issue at the eastern border as 450,000+ are still there & the rest can come to the eastern border in no time. All your armor units still there.

I find it very ironic, that all the world, the US keeps crying that PA is still India centric & are not letting formations at eastern border move to COIN operations area & its elite formations are still facing India & that PA is buying weapons to counter India not the militants, how you come up to a contrary conclusion is hard to understand, the US has better satellite information then we ordinary guys to know what PA has deployed & what not.

Also, i don't understand why are you adding the number of FC guys among the 8 divisions total figure as they are not part of regular army.

Anyway, if you still wanna keep that PA has lost its focus on eastern border, your choice.

 

[courageneverdies]

Anyway, if you still wanna keep that PA has lost its focus on eastern border, your choice.

No big deal Khan G if we get some of our men out of Eastern front. Western front is a hot shot for now. Needs full emphasis. Once this threat is over than India isn't going anywhere and by the way India has not been inducting their ***** from eastern borders but from western borders. So if we are moving to western from eastern, the objective is still same, **** the enemy.

What u say?

KIT Out

 

[Xeric]

^^ How many Officers and Men are actually there in these HQ and at staff duties..??? In hundreds or may be in thousands....

Sheer ignorance..!!

 

[All-Green]

Regarding the current situation, i have this much to say.

In the darkest of times there are somethings which can have a positive effect as well...
Pakistan Army is becoming much more tough and battle ready than it was at any given time in its history...
Officers who have been to battlegrounds and have performed with valor and diligence are being promoted...the skill set is being enhanced...
These terrorists are making us stronger...our Army and Air force are getting crucial battle experience...

In the long run this experience and this hardening of our formations will hold true against any enemy who attacks us, internal or external.
Experience alone is one of the most important aspects of war...

So in this i think we should not be afraid that we are compromising on eastern border, worst comes to worse, if we are attacked on eastern border, we shall use a lot of weapons we cannot use against TTP...we are not that insecure on the eastern border...especially once we weigh the threat posed by TTP...
The current Army has now many commanders with active battlefield experience, it has taken time but they have become more experienced and past failures have taught them what not to do...

When i interact with my friends and family serving in the forces, there is an air of confidence and grit about them, they are battle veterans now.

May Allah give us victory over these terrorists and may this fight for Pakistan and its people renew the spirit of this nation

 

[TruthSeeker]

My letter to my US Senator sent this morning:

"Dear Senator Webb,

Pakistan has just launched a critical anti-terrorist campaign in the FATA region of South Waziristan. It is vital to the United States that Pakistan succeed against the TTP forces within Pakistan. I have been following the anti-terror events in Pakistan for the past year by learning and discussing the issues at a defense related website, Pakistan Defence, operated by Pakistanis who are interested and involved in Pakistan military affairs. You might use this website to gain some insight into Pakistan’s efforts. It is clear that there are conflicts of perceptions and, perhaps strategic interests, that are interfering with our success in developing a perfect relationship as an ally with Pakistan in the fight against terrorists within Pakistan. Nonetheless, this campaign that the Pakistani Army has begun in South Waziristan is an action that we, the USA, has long hoped for and advocated. We must do everything in our power to help Pakistan be successful. Every asset we possess in the region, i.e. intelligence, UAV capability, military supplies and equipment, refugee assistance, co-ordination with ISAF resources, covert actions and resources, and diplomatic clout with Pakistan’s neighbors, needs to be thrown into the fight against the TTP in FATA. I urge you to use your position on the US Senate Armed Services Committee and the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee to advocate for all possible US assistance to Pakistan at this crucial time.

Respectfully,
[Truthseeker]"

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Other non-Pakistani citizens may want to contact their government representatives (if they have them) to urge support for Pakistan. Pakistan needs support from all nations.
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Some info about James Webb, my US Senator from Virginia:

Jim Webb presently serves as the senior Senator from Virginia.
Webb graduated from the Naval Academy in l968, receiving the Superintendent's Commendation for outstanding leadership contributions while a midshipman, and subsequently chose a commission in the Marine Corps.

First in his class of 243 at the Marine Corps Officers' Basic School in Quantico, Virginia, Webb served with the Fifth Marine Regiment in Vietnam, where as a rifle platoon and company commander in the infamous An Hoa Basin west of Danang he was awarded the Navy Cross, the Silver Star Medal, two Bronze Star Medals, and two Purple Hearts. He later served as a platoon commander and as an instructor in tactics and weapons at Marine Corps Officer Candidates School, and then as a member of the Secretary of the Navy's immediate staff, before leaving the Marine Corps in 1972.

In 1987, he became the first Naval Academy graduate in history to serve in the military and then become Secretary of the Navy.

In addition to Webb's public service, he has enjoyed a long career as a writer. He has authored nine books, including Fields of Fire, widely recognized as the classic novel of the Vietnam War, Born Fighting, an ethnography that explores how the Scots Irish shaped America, and A Time to Fight, his latest best-selling non-fiction about reclaiming a fair and just America. In 2004, Webb went into Afghanistan as a journalist, embedded with the U.S. military.

 

[Javed3]

Dear Truth Seeker:

We feel proud of you drawing the attention of Senator James Webb to this forum. It is important that the US leadership and general masses take deeper interest in Pakistan affairs and familiarize themselves with non-Government opinions.

This forum per se does not represent a true cross section of Pakistani society. Most members here have some ties with the forces, and have to mostly toe the party line. Contrarian views are few and far between. The worst affected areas (FATA) have no real voice at the grassroots level.

Nevertheless a deeper insight is always constructive and positive.

 

[Hellfire]

Are you forgetting the attacks in the cities before the Swat Operation?

We had an entire wave of suicide bombings in Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar after the Lal Masjid Ops.

The Taliban moved the campaign to the cities long ago.

AM

Nope am not forgetting the same ...... but remembering the subsequent displacement which had potential of further consolidation of the Talibs within the local populance (IDPs) in terms of difficulty in detection etc.

And now the tempo of attacks is much higher .....

 

[MZUBAIR]

"If US hav proves then y dont they share with us (PAK)."

How do you know that we haven't?

okay u have proves then share with us (GoP n PA)....so we can take serious actions without wasting time.


Dont forget we are fighting against terrorism.......accept it or not but US established them and had strong ties with these people in past. That Mula Umer , Mr Osama all were ur people in late 80's.

We (Civilians n arm forces) are giving blood .........now they r more dangerous coz US n NATO failed to destroy them in Afghanistan.

 

[Javed3]

I guess Pak Army will capture South Waziristan in 3-4 days. Makin is a rather easy objective; Probably 3000-4000 bad guys will get killed.

But it will take lots of resources to hold on to it .... It will end up being a worse festering wound than Swat is.

 

[courageneverdies]

I dont think that the burden of IDPs of Waziristan will be of that magnitude which we had seen of Malakand Div. because people have already been displacing from Waziristan because of the news that the op might be launched at any time. Plus the bombing of PAF also forced them to leave the area well in time before the commencement of PA op in waziristan.

KIT Out

 

[courageneverdies]

I guess Pak Army will capture South Waziristan in 3-4 days. Makin is a rather easy objective; Probably 3000-4000 bad guys will get killed.

But it will take lots of resources to hold on to it .... It will end up being a worse festering wound than Swat is.

I dont think that South Waziristan will end up in 3-4 days rather 3-4 weeks would be a short time. Remember how much time did we take to capture Malakand Div. which was just a wing of Waziristan terrorists. Waziristan embodies the main stay, the hardcore militants which we have seen in action at GHQ and LHR attacks. Thinks will be difficult but Inshallah the victory will be ours, no doubt about it.

KIT OUT