Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[Javed3]

Solomon2

You have raised a very crucial and interesting point.

Whereas UK was a true boot ally during and after WWII, Pakistan is an “ally” in the sense of a banana republic a la Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Marcos’s Philippines.

US never asked UK to put its gold deposits as surety after the Lend-Lease act was formally promulgated by President Roosevelt in late 1941. The total material transfer was to the tune of about US$ 630 b (in 2004 prices), now that is what we call Aid. In 1946 Harry S Truman essentially wrote down the Lend Lease assets. Marshall Plan uplifted Europe out of the post war abyss, that’s a cool US$ 800 b in today’s prices.

What loyalties are you talking about? This is YOUR War, after having bought out our corrupt leadership you are convincing us that somehow this is OUR war. For added effect you are using Black waterm, Dyncorp and other mercenary outfits to hire a few corrupted mules and cause blasts / explosions.

 

[S-2]

This is likely correct.

India has almost nothing to gain by fomenting rebellion. In so doing they can add only an incrementally modest contribution to the sentiments and effect already achieved by the TTP. They stand, conversely, to lose much were it apparent to America or any of the other forty nations in Afghanistan that such was being used as a base for operations against Pakistan.

Too little to gain. Too much to lose.

The same can't be said for Afghanistan nor can, in that chaotic government, one expect perfect transparency. One of the tools well-polished in a corrupt governing environ is the absence of clarity. Pakistan knows of some of that. In Afghanistan, the means likely exists to divert weapons and aid and the motive is CERTAINLY present.

There may be something there. Pakistan, however, only hurts itself IMHO with this preoccupation about India for domestic consumption. The evidence accrued by now should be mountainous were we to believe Abbas and Malik.

Why haven't such claims gone before the world press in a real slick power-point show or perhaps a general session of the U.N.?

 

[PakShaheen79]

PA movement is very slow not like swat , it means PA is facing gurrilla tactics, PA need to adopt different strategy with support of local tribes

Pace is alright considering the terrain. Swat is part of Pakistan and army know that area insideout. In SWA there are many such areas which are new to army and army has learned the lesson to handles these TTP thugs i.e. By capturing heights and this is exactly what is army doing at moment.

 

[waraich66]

"...to hear praises from a few White “dignitaries”. "

Ah, your racist slip is showing again, dear. Do your leaders turn their ears as eagerly to hear the praise from our president as well? Probably not, eh?

I think you may be out of your depth...

...again. Tacky too. Can you watch playing the race card so easily henceforth?

Thanks.

Horse trading is continued , but Pakistani nation will remain united.
Black and White waters could not break the unity of ummah , era of colonialism is now over

 

[S-2]

Some allies just know how to do the right thing by their own code of honor-

Britain Pays Off Lend-Lease Debt- London Times December 2006

 

[Solomon2]

Solomon2

Pakistan is an “ally” in the sense of a banana republic a la Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Marcos’s Philippines.

Banana republics don't have nukes.

What loyalties are you talking about? This is YOUR War, after having bought out our corrupt leadership you are convincing us that somehow this is OUR war.

Oh, I get it! You know that your leadership is utterly corrupt, therefore the U.S. must have bought its loyalty - they don't care about Pakistan at all!

So how do you know when a war is "yours" or not?

For added effect you are using Black waterm, Dyncorp and other mercenary outfits to hire a few corrupted mules and cause blasts / explosions.

I think we can classify this as an ideologically convenient rant, rather than careful observation of facts and cause/effect.

 

[S-2]

"Horse trading is continued , but Pakistani nation will remain united.
Black and White waters could not break the unity of ummah , era of colonialism is now over..."

For the west, yes. For many of you here, nope. Still tied to the wheel with minds suffering a real need to effect revenge. Pure and simple.

Too much ummah talk from muslims, especially when muslims the world over specialize in killing other muslims at rates unprecedented to any western colonial occupation save the damned Soviets-and they were HARDLY colonialists, remember?

You'd better think foremost about Pakistan for a change and put down your mock piety.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimikhan

“”The only spatial situation the guerrillas fear is when they are denied access to their safe havens in the mountains and areas adjoining the theatre, and when they know that after hitting, they cannot run. A situation such as this creates a choking effect. If the Soviets had blocked the Durand Line on their side to prevent cross-border movement, the Mujahideen in Afghanistan would have been isolated from their handlers and logistics based in Pakistan. The Soviet forces had become victims of their general staff’s lack of strategic vision””.

Another example of my crass naivety; I find the above para worth its weight in gold.

A guerrilla movement that relies too heavily on terrain based Safe havens eventually loses out. Real safe haven is in the minds and hearts of population at large. In the context of TTP it’s the general public in FATA and Swat. A greater safe haven is the 35% of Pakistan’s general population that is living below the poverty line, i.e. about US$ 1 / day. Groaning poverty, malnutrition and Somalia like social development index has created a silent anti-establishment wave within the masses. Our convicted felon president, the government machinery and the Military Top brass are all bracketed together as the 2% privileged class commanding a great share of the resources. When Hillary Clinton questions the allocation and use of the US$ 300 m to the IDP’s of Swat operation, millions of fingers point to the ruling Political and Military leadership.

Army is losing the war in the hearts and minds of the people; it’s not just “Mehsuds”, Swat and Khyber too are brimming with hatred and humiliation. Mainstream Pakistan does not feel the pain of the IDP’s primarily due to their ethnic background.

No matter how much you scare the general masses about the TTP menace, the “bad guys” are identified as a genuine resistance.

A bloated and corrupt security apparatus including police, FIA, IB and even ISI / MI units in close contact with the society have been thoroughly corrupted. They know very well what the ruling class is making out of the US war on Terror. Nobody is exactly keen to lay down his life for Rs 6000.

The MAIN PROBLEM is that we have volunteered to fight the American War on Desi Prices, very very cheap. Americans found it cheaper to bribe a few politicians and a few Generals rather than making a serious war investment in Pakistan. From about US$ 7 b / year during Musharraf’s time the real cost of war has now ballooned to about US$ 11 b / year. We are giving a 90% discount on our COSTS just to enjoy a pat on the shoulder, and to hear praises from a few White “dignitaries”.

By the way, the Soviets were not exactly stupid. They did their best to stem the flow of logistics and to kill the “mujahedeen bases”. Soviets had substantial garrisons in Wakhan, Takhar, Asadabad, Kameh / Jalalabad, Khost, Qamruddin karez, Chaman. Spitnatz was pretty much active. By 1985 they had sealed the bleeding ulcer of Panjsher by arriving at a tacit truce with Ahmed Shah Masud. Eventually they became hopelessly dependent on Air Power; Stinger made a real difference. USA, Pakistan and the western world kept the logistics lifeline, the limitation being the Mujahedeen to distribute the equipment and supplies.

You are 101% correct , can't argue with an intellectual of your caliber.

 

[S-2]

"Poor Obama, though well intentioned, has to tag along with the KKK lobby."

Again, Javed3, YOU tread out of your depth with an incomplete and racially skewed understanding of how a functioning democracy works. You won't learn such by watching Michael Moore videos nor by investing your time trolling irhabist websites.

I encourage you to shake off the mental chains that are binding your meagre faculties to such a narrowed pathway and REALLY inspect the process of governance in a nation as large and complex as ours.

Ah, but that's just me and you're just being silly ol' you, hey?

Please quit playing the racist card. This is the second time I've asked nicely of you. My nation actually practices a multiracial multiculturalism every day. When Pakistan begins to do so, you'll THEN learn just how long, hard, and far you must travel.

It's a work in progress for which virtually all lag far behind America. Now quit being such a silly and mean-spirited child about this.

Thanks.

 

[TaimiKhan]

taimikhan

ISLAMABAD, Nov 2 (APP): The security forces have found substantial evidence of Indian involvement for assisting terrorists in South Waziristan Agency, Director General ISPR Major General Athar Abass said. “Indian literature and weapons under the use of terrorists have been recovered from South Waziristan and more evidence is being gathered,” he said addressing a joint media briefing on Operation Rah e Nijat here Monday.

Another Dog and Pony show … Silly Propaganda to arouse the feelings of mainstream Pakistan. .

This is one of the few times in history when Pakistani Government, India and the USA have convergent interests. South Waziristan, Swat and all other FATA operations have the full backing of the US and India.

1. If India was supporting TTP, it would not have allowed Pak Army to move 1/3rd of its combat strength to fight the US War. It is so easy for them to create tensions. They did not try an active deployment even after the Bombay carnage.
2. Why is our Government still begging India to start a composite dialog?
3. With an active logistics lifeline from any nation state including India, PA would not have been able to rack in impressive victories. The bad guys did’nt have to rely on AK-47’s, things would have been a lot more sophisticated.

So true, I am out of words to bring something remotely capable enough to counter such facts of high note, PA is stupid to have been run by Kiyani, the seat of Kiyani truly deserves a genius military mind like yours and your 2nd in command can be the one who admires your posts the most.

 

[S-2]

"This is YOUR War, after having bought out our corrupt leadership you are convincing us that somehow this is OUR war."

No convincing you. Were all other Pakistanis like you then everybody could just put down their guns and sing Kumba-yah!

You really should stand for open and unrestricted acquiescence. At each bomb, turn your other cheek. No doubt the taliban will tire of such in the face of such a non-violent response that aims for an enlightened perspective common to all men of goodwill.

Or just surrender. See what that gets you.

Thanks.

 

[waraich66]

"Horse trading is continued , but Pakistani nation will remain united.
Black and White waters could not break the unity of ummah , era of colonialism is now over..."

For the west, yes. For many of you here, nope. Still tied to the wheel with minds suffering a real need to effect revenge. Pure and simple.

Too much ummah talk from muslims, especially when muslims the world over specialize in killing other muslims at rates unprecedented to any western colonial occupation save the damned Soviets-and they were HARDLY colonialists, remember?

You'd better think foremost about Pakistan for a change and put down your mock piety.

No question of revenge here, but we reserve our right to protect our land and sea routes and oil reserves, which you wanted to control to run your kitchen.

Concept of ummah is bond of unity in muslim , which you try to break in 1924 (sultante Usmania).

Agreed terrorism is not solution to counter your big game plan and unipolar agenda , better learn lesson from soviets grave yards in Afghanistan also had desire for warm waters , Pakistan may become grave yard of black waters

 

[waraich66]

You are 101% correct , can't argue with an intellectual of your caliber.

What a justification , expecting this type of answer from think tanker

 

[S-2]

You just aren't understanding that we simply aren't losing a massive number of men in Afghanistan compared to Vietnam or the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Not yet and probably never simply because it's not really a war. Omar has ONE chance for victory and it's a good one at that. He's hoping that we'll tire of fighting the GoA's corruption.

Killing tangos is becoming, however, a first-rate attraction for young Americans seeking opportunities to travel the world, see strange and delightful sites, meet new people, and whack irhabists.

I'd like to leave for my own reasons. You'd, of course, like us to leave for your own reasons. Sadly neither of us will have our way as America appears to be staying and sending more troops to Afghanistan for my government's own reasons.

Fundamentalist, can you tell me how much oil we've received from Iraq as war booty? Any? You are correct, you know about CAR energy.

What, though, troubles you about CAR being able to ship oil and LNG through Afghanistan to global ports via Iran and Pakistan? Does that upset you that CAR might be able to pick and choose its customers based upon best market prices?

Do you believe that energy belongs to only a select few? Do you understand how the global energy market really works? I suspect that you'd like to see the CAR republics and Afghanistan perpetually poor, underdeveloped, and at the mercy of Russia and China.

Is that true? If so, why?

 

[TaimiKhan]

What a justification , expecting this type of answer from think tanker

Bhainsss kae agay kitnaa bhii beeen bajaooo, fiedaa aik paisay ka bhi nahien hotaaa.