Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[SSGPA1]

It is great to see COAS visiting troops in SWA. Where is the political leadership?

It wil be great to see members from that area visiting camps and front lines to show support. our PM also need to visit the IDPs from SWA and the defence minister should also be at the front line.

... and my wish list goes on and on

 

[Javed3]

Kidwaibhai

Mr. Farhat Taj article too is based on fallacies and misrepresentation of facts.

More than 90% of the British Indian colonial army engaging the Faqir of Ipi were Desis, great majority being Muslims. From 1933 onwards most of the RIAF squadrons too had Indian pilots. FC too was a tribal Muslim paramilitary force, actively taking part in action. Senior officers were mostly brits, pretty very well versed with the tribal sensibilities and exhibited a certain degree of fairness. British Indian Army hospitals frequently treated injuries sustained by Tribal people as result of operations, without too much scrutiny whether they were “good guys” or “bad guys”.

The main difference is that the Garrison Commanders in Razmak and Wana were empowered to start, stop or adjust the operations; the main purpose was to keep the communications open and area generally tranquil. Punitive raids were launched with some degree of discretion.

On other hand our Army operation looks like a full scale assault to dominate the area and subjugate the people. Colonial administrators of today, namely the US, are calling the shots. Colonial forward area policies of early 20th century are being implemented with modern weapon systems. RAF has been replaced by the US drones and PAF, but casualties are higher. Tribal population was displaced at that time as well, but never on a scale as seen today.

To some extent at least, our former Colonial masters were fair as compared to our Kala Angrez mentality.

 

[Elmo]

YES I am burning inside out; but for entirely different reasons:

4. That Army was misused in similar “anti terror” operations in former East Pakistan (1971), Baluchistan (1973), Sind (1984), Karachi (1992) and FATA (2001-Now). Each operation essentially poured more fuel on the fire.
5. Our military commanders trained to defend national airspace and boundaries against aggression are actually aiding and abetting drone strikes over Pakistani territory by the US; and feeling great about it.
6. Pointless and Immature cheerleading by brothers like yourself over a self perpetuating national disaster.

Thank you for those three. You articulated the last very well! About time.

Afghans belong to the tribes settled on both sides of the Durand Line, and have the right of free movement under a special status deal concluded by the father of the Nation Quaid-e-Azam in 1947.
By definition anybody who calls Pakistan home is a Pakistani.

Disagree with you there. To be a Pakistani one has to follow a process, the same way we have naturalisation of citizens. The Partition and the movement of cannot be paralleled with the settling down of jihadis from arab states and central asia. It's akin to refugees from Afghanistan insisting to live in Pakistan. There are certain laws that have to be abided by.

For the record, the Army is mainly going after foreigner militants --especially Uzbeks/Afghan/Arabs. If you follow the news, then you will know that in the past 48 hours over 20 foreigner terrorists were killed and roughly 90 were arrested in different Provinces.

1,500 foreign militants
15-20,000 militants.

That's 10 per cent of the total figure --- at the max. If we go by the 20,000 mark then the percentage falls down further. How is the army able to discern who is a foreign fighter and who is not--- do the foreigners show their IDs? The army has yet to engage in pitch battles.... (that's going by the last ISPR press release) and surely haven't been given a crash course in facial recognition for ethnicity before raising their arms. More often than not, these militants prefer to keep their faces covered. More psy-ops than anything substantial.

How many insurgents have been arrested in Swat... not more than 500. How many of them were there in the first place? 5,000 by conservative estimates. So that's ten per cent again. We had highly exaggerated numbers of insurgents being killed coming in but then more than anything else and once again, as many senior members have identified, all psy-ops.

By definition anybody who calls Pakistan home is a Pakistani.

wait! oh my ribs!

Let's not mock posts please...

 

[fatman17]

Let's not mock posts please...

aye aye madam!

 

[Elmo]

On other hand our Army operation looks like a full scale assault to dominate the area and subjugate the people. Colonial administrators of today, namely the US, are calling the shots. Colonial forward area policies of early 20th century are being implemented with modern weapon systems. RAF has been replaced by the US drones and PAF, but casualties are higher. Tribal population was displaced at that time as well, but never on a scale as seen today.

To some extent at least, our former Colonial masters were fair as compared to our Kala Angrez mentality.

That whole bit about the US calling the shots... don't agree there.

Also, the colonial policies cannot be synonymised with those of the US for FATA. The two are entirely different.

This will be the third or fourth time that the army is entering the area since 9/11 and the army has always entered with much "panache and gusto". We should hope that the exit is unlike the precedent set in recent times.

We are up against at least 15,000 "militants" who hitherto were also known as the "Mehsuds". I am mixed about the use of force this time around. How do we deal with our own citizens who have "strayed" (for lack of another adjective)... leaving aside the al-Qaeda element and attempt to overthrow the state, at some level these people are religious and want Shariah enforced. It is their right... they are in a majority in their area and all of them will not be subscribing to the "grand designs" of the al-Qaeda. So do we go in and beat the crap out of them? On the other hand, some of these tribes-people are making life hell for normal people, then it seems justified to reign them in. So what sort of force should we use: carpet bombing, use artillery fire, fight them hand to hand? Have shoot at sight orders so that they learn a lesson and stay put.

These questions are imperative. And we must not forget at any level and stage that we are fighting the Mehsuds as well, for whom SWA has been an abode for centuries. We are going into their "home".

 

[Slides]

How many insurgents have been arrested in Swat... not more than 500. How many of them were there in the first place? 5,000 by conservative estimates. So that's ten per cent again. We had highly exaggerated numbers of insurgents being killed coming in but then more than anything else and once again, as many senior members have identified, all psy-ops.

Captured insurgents from Malakand area are more than 500. And not all of them who joined swat taliban were die hard supporters. Some were forced to join, so the numbers disparity their is not that important.

Inflation of body count is not new to this conflict. NATO does the same with 100 taliban killed and 1 NATO soldier with a stubbed toe after each battle.

 

[Slides]

Kidwaibhai

Mr. Farhat Taj article too is based on fallacies and misrepresentation of facts.

More than 90% of the British Indian colonial army engaging the Faqir of Ipi were Desis, great majority being Muslims. From 1933 onwards most of the RIAF squadrons too had Indian pilots. FC too was a tribal Muslim paramilitary force, actively taking part in action. Senior officers were mostly brits, pretty very well versed with the tribal sensibilities and exhibited a certain degree of fairness. British Indian Army hospitals frequently treated injuries sustained by Tribal people as result of operations, without too much scrutiny whether they were “good guys” or “bad guys”.

The main difference is that the Garrison Commanders in Razmak and Wana were empowered to start, stop or adjust the operations; the main purpose was to keep the communications open and area generally tranquil. Punitive raids were launched with some degree of discretion.

On other hand our Army operation looks like a full scale assault to dominate the area and subjugate the people. Colonial administrators of today, namely the US, are calling the shots. Colonial forward area policies of early 20th century are being implemented with modern weapon systems. RAF has been replaced by the US drones and PAF, but casualties are higher. Tribal population was displaced at that time as well, but never on a scale as seen today.

To some extent at least, our former Colonial masters were fair as compared to our Kala Angrez mentality.

Fair? They were fair in occupying a country only for greed?

 

[air marshal]

 

[PakShaheen79]

It is great to see COAS visiting troops in SWA. Where is the political leadership?

It wil be great to see members from that area visiting camps and front lines to show support. our PM also need to visit the IDPs from SWA and the defence minister should also be at the front line.

... and my wish list goes on and on

Actaully, our political leadership is busy in dealing with non-issues like NRO, 17th amendment etc. No one has time to play their role, which is more critical in post military ops. Just look who is taking care of refugees It is Special Support Group (SSG) of Pakistan army again whereas no politician has time to look after these poor people who left their homes just to allow army to conduct operation against TTP.

Absence of political players from insurgency hit area is bigger threat to the gains attained by forces so far than TTP terrorists.

 

[pakdefender]

Rah e Hq mein youhin agay barhtay Chaol ,Sarhadon kay nighaban Jawan Sathio.

Pakistani Army , May ALLAH keep you in HIS Protection.

CRUSH THESE TERRORITS!!! CRUSH THEM ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

 

[PakShaheen79]

Rah e Hq mein youhin agay barhtay Chaol ,Sarhadon kay nighaban Jawan Sathio.

Pakistani Army , May ALLAH keep you in HIS Protection.

CRUSH THESE TERRORITS!!! CRUSH THEM ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

ARMY ALONE CAN'T DO IT.
Political leadership will have to take ownership of this war and will also have to look after people leaving their homes in operation hit area. PM must visit the area ASAP just like CoAS has done.

 

[pakdefender]

Political leaderhsip is visible only by its absence ( as always ) what can be done about this ?
These lousy slobs havent enven been voicing their support for the troops leave aside doing anything meaningfull.

ALL politicians are quiet like a mouse , how very shamefull

It seems that its only the Armed froces that care about the Star and Crescent on the Green and the White.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Well bro if political leadership is not interested in taking responsibility then I can see trouble after operation completed and army left the area. They will always come back and fight with state until state herself take firm stance that we will not allow these terrorists to exploit any local level administrative matter.

 

[pakdefender]

Fully agreed that without good governace , civil adminstration and rehibilaitation the job will only be half done.

Its time that the People of Pakistan call out the Politcal leadership to 'stand up and be counted' for the defence of the country.

 

[ejaz007]

Forces claim seizure of heavy arms in SWA operation
Updated at: 0830 PST, Tuesday, October 27, 2009


PESHAWAR: Security forces claimed recovering heavy amount of arms including explosives and artilleries during search operation in South Waziristan Operation (SWA), Geo news reported.

According to ISPR sources, forces’ search operation in parts of SWA during military offensive is underway, meanwhile, heavy armaments were recovered from suspected hideouts of militants located in Shakai and adjoining areas of agency.

Forces claim seizure of heavy arms in SWA operation