Open Debate | How to conduct a 'reasonable debate' between Pakistanis and Indians on PDF?

[third eye]

Besides relevant issues raised in previous posts, I feel we have slipped into simply gloating at each others discomfiture & trying to score ' points' over each other . The emphasis seems to be simply wining an argument & not contributing to knowledge sharing or learning of new things.

We need to shift from a " you did it first" & " I told you so " to an realization that problems of one affect the other and none of us live in an island.

Things like Rape, Suicide Bombers, denial of rights and so on do not restrict themselves to borders. Thay happen equally in India, Pak, China, BD & SL . Yet we are quick to point them out on the other side & get defensive when we ourselves are quoted.

This I feel can be controlled ( not eliminated) by enlightened moderation alone. Banning is not the answer.

Earlier, when a post was deleted there a remark of the Mod stating reasons for removal was visible. This had a salutary effect on upstarts.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

The quality of exchanges has improved between most members from Pakistan and India compared to a few years ago. Now it is the exchanges between the Chinese and the Indians (with a selected few Pakistani cheerleaders on the Chinese side) who derail threads. Then there is the occasional Iranian - Pakistani exchanges which get out of hand when a few Pakistanis bring in the unrelated topic of the Indian conflicts to show that they can take on a larger nation and some Indians rush in to highlight what they perceive is nonsense. As for rapes in India and Pakistan and the corruption and cultural issues, members here take it as a personal insult instead of rationally discussing the topic on hand.

 

[nair]

Lets accept the fact that we are prejudice when it comes to the nationals across the boarder......normally 1 troll post in thread derails the entire discussion..... that troll is counter trolled and results in a troll fest..... Posters normally dont respect the posters from other side of the boarder.....(having said that there are few posters who are respected by both nationalities).... Trolling has been done by (normally) 2 category of posters...... 1 Newbies and 2 Elites......Newbies get banned and elites continue to contribute in trolling....

The day when we start taking criticism half the problem is solved and the rest half should making constructive criticism....

Earlier, when a post was deleted there a remark of the Mod stating reasons for removal was visible. This had a salutary effect on upstarts.

I agree with you here..... these days only mods can see the deleted message where as for us the entire post is vanished and some time the rest of the discussions happened based on that post...... I feel that deleted message should be there in the place of a deleted post with the name of the poster......

 

[Levina]

they both are banned now....
happy lady...

No,"Hell ban" is different. I am sure the admin here understands the meaning of that word.
But still glad to know the two trolls got banned.

 

[Dem!god]

No,"Hell ban" is different. I am sure the admin here understands the meaning of that word.
But still glad to know the two trolls got banned.

Ok. I agree they are not hell ban but they are not here for time being ....
so cheer up.....

 

[vicky sen]

No,"Hell ban" is different. I am sure the admin here understands the meaning of that word.
But still glad to know the two trolls got banned.

What is hell ban??
Permanent ban with a message "Go to hell"??

 

[Levina]

s

What is hell ban??
Permanent ban with a message "Go to hell"??

Hehehe
Nooo...
Well we all know that despite getting banned many members return to the forum.Sometimes their posts even make it very obvious for others to guess their previous ids.
So some admins give such trolls a "hell ban".
From then on these trolls become ghosts on the site,as in their posts become invisible to everyone except to themselves.But from the ghost/troll's preceptive they're still actively participating on the forum and "contributing" too.
Ultimately they get bored ...loose interest and leave the forum.
.....end of the story........


But mind you, very rare forums use it...i guess because some amount of trolling is required to keep the forum active.
Its our admin's call...

 

[GR!FF!N]

News update: rape topic is no longer banned.

lol..he himself just got banned..

 

[vicky sen]

s
Hehehe
Nooo...
Well we all know that despite getting banned many members return to the forum.Sometimes their posts even make it very obvious for others to guess their previous ids.
So some admins give such trolls a "hell ban".
From then on these trolls become ghosts on the site,as in their posts become invisible to everyone except to themselves.But from the ghost/troll's preceptive they're still actively participating on the forum and "contributing" too.
Ultimately they get bored ...loose interest and leave the forum.
.....end of the story........


But mind you, very rare forums use it...i guess because some amount of trolling is required to keep the forum active.
Its our admin's call...

Wow.... thats some innovative stuff

 

[Levina]

Wow.... thats some innovative stuff

 

[Dem!god]

s
Hehehe
Nooo...
Well we all know that despite getting banned many members return to the forum.Sometimes their posts even make it very obvious for others to guess their previous ids.
So some admins give such trolls a "hell ban".
From then on these trolls become ghosts on the site,as in their posts become invisible to everyone except to themselves.But from the ghost/troll's preceptive they're still actively participating on the forum and "contributing" too.
Ultimately they get bored ...loose interest and leave the forum.
.....end of the story........


But mind you, very rare forums use it...i guess because some amount of trolling is required to keep the forum active.
Its our admin's call...

Oh...thanks for the info.......in a million guess, i would have never got that(may be i would have..)

 

[Dubious]

Hello. I just wanted to collect ideas on how defence.pk can better conduct a reasonable debate between Pakistanis and Indians?

From our experience there are a few problems that hinder our efforts to engineer debates towards a fruitful ending.

• Members have issues with the other nationality commenting on their nation's issues.
• Members presume it to be an infringement of their 'internal matters'.
• Members look at threads as a means of 'triumph' or 'defeat' to the other nationality, which is absurd.
• Members have personal grudges against other members from another nationality
• Trolling
• Mine is bigger than yours
  

Now we want to solve this issue, so i thought that its better to put it out there for an honest session of debate on how we can improve the situation.

Please give your opinion.

Aeronaut

the 3 in bold is too much it is sickening

People should not discuss their opinions as facts
People should try providing evidence from reliable sources not their own media maybe a neutral line...
People should stop dragging religion into everything that is not concerning religion
People should stop trying to be involved at things they have no idea off ...Some people recently judge the whole Pakistani nation based on what they read in their newspaper...Well, unfortunately we have plenty going on in our country then to make highlights of whats going on in other countries and judging a whole nation based on that! How is that fair?

People should stop drinking the "assumption holy grail" ...Soo many people have no ideas of ground realities and rely on assumptions

People should stop equating everything to the nationality/ race/ religion of the guy who kidnapped them and spanked them (truly some write as though they had some trauma)

People should stop dragging incidents of 1 thread to another unless its news articles to provide proof....

People should learn to respect if they have none they dont expect any in return!

People should stop whining about we are given a chance to type here that is enough dont expect much ---this victim complex should earn them a warning!

And yes! I am damn fed up of people wanting to compare their country on every chance they get! Like if our country was "equal" to yours...we wouldnt be known with a different name! Why do people want clones?

 

[Kompromat]

The most credible way to encourage healthy competition is for the mods to be impartial.In my short stay on this forum,I have received one strike aka warning just for expressing my opinion.The excuse given was off topic/no value,while I did not off topic or troll or even make a less informed post deliberately.When I sought to contact the concerned mod to sort it out and seek clarifications I received no response.Sorry to say this but this forum seems to have problems accomdoating diversity in opinion.

Bias exists everywhere, we try to be as fair as we could within the forum rules. There is a place called the GHQ, we created it to review complaints. You can access it.

 

[Aamna14]

I do have another suggestion though i have said that active moderation in my sight is the only way to create a platform where Indians and Pakistanis can have a civil discussion. I believe the mods should only post in Senior's cafe that might also affect their moderation activities for the better and excessive complaints and trolling won't go unnoticed.
Regards.

 

[Kompromat]

Besides relevant issues raised in previous posts, I feel we have slipped into simply gloating at each others discomfiture & trying to score ' points' over each other . The emphasis seems to be simply wining an argument & not contributing to knowledge sharing or learning of new things.

We need to shift from a " you did it first" & " I told you so " to an realization that problems of one affect the other and none of us live in an island.

Things like Rape, Suicide Bombers, denial of rights and so on do not restrict themselves to borders. Thay happen equally in India, Pak, China, BD & SL . Yet we are quick to point them out on the other side & get defensive when we ourselves are quoted.

This I feel can be controlled ( not eliminated) by enlightened moderation alone. Banning is not the answer.

Earlier, when a post was deleted there a remark of the Mod stating reasons for removal was visible. This had a salutary effect on upstarts.

When i have to delete 50 posts at a time, do you really expect me to provide a reason for every single one of them?

What we need to do is to educate ou members that this forum is not a battlefield.