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Only Democracy: Israeli Arab arrested over his Facebook status

I am really running out of time, so I skimmed this post (sorry) and I agree with most of what is said (at least the spirit) :).
As I said, it was perfectly naturally for the Palestinian Arab children to hate Israeli's at the time, and there was no need for indoctrination for children to hate Israeli's, only based on the war between them.

The only thing I am uncomfortable with is the next, I have no problem with suicide bombing, as you say it's just a weapon. However unlike Israel the Palestinians often targeted civilians, while most of the civilian Arabs killed were by product of a battle between two armed groups in the area.
This can be easily shown.

Nelson Mandela and ANC did terrorist bombings against civilians as well, during their apartheid-struggle.
That doesnt mean its something that is good or preferable way of dealing with situation.

But Palestinians have a right to fight for their equal rights and political aspirations.
And if all else fails, they have every single right to resort to violence to gain it.

Its not a good outcome, but this is a symptom of a larger problem and disease. Which is Israeli apartheid and opression. So get off that high horse. You have no sympathy from anyone in the region, and soon enough that lack of sympathy will extend worldwide. Just like it did during the days of the racist White Afrikaaner rule of South Africa.
 
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oh what a surprise, advocating the murder and massacre of civilians. Why am I not surprised?

That photo you have suits you perfectly, as do those flags. You just show your own murderous colors.

By the way, as for Geneva convention, attacking civilians gives Israel the right to retaliate in the same manner. Thankfully we are not maniac butchers, like you.
 
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oh what a surprise, advocating the murder and massacre of civilians. Why am I not surprised?

That photo you have suits you perfectly, as do those flags. You just show your own murderous colors.

By the way, as for Geneva convention, attacking civilians gives Israel the right to retaliate in the same manner. Thankfully we are not maniac butchers, like you.

ResurgentIran seems like a fairly friendly guy (believe it or not) although I don't agree with him at all in terms of politics, especially his support for the Child-Murderer and sometimes I also find his anti-Jewish and anti-Arab stances strange and quite radical.

But he has some points. You know one mans terrorist the other mans freedom fighter. Islam clearly states that killing a civilian or killing for that matter is like killing the whole humanity. But in political/nationalist conflicts such as the one between Palestine and Israel the religious rules are sometimes left out if not mostly. Religion is used as a driving factor and not much more.

But it is funny/interesting that you mention all that. What is your opinion about this right-wing Zionist terrorist group below that operated and used such tactics well before any Palestinians let alone Arabs adopted them?

Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Irgun members (or most of them) were even incorporated into the newly founded IDF in 1948.

I wonder how many Muslims or Arabs even know all that. I bet not many. Or persons for that matter.

What about this attack? The King David Hotel bombing.

King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They also thought against a colonial/oppressor in the British and many Jews/Zionists viewed that as a legitimate fight no matter that civilians were also targeted like they always get during armed conflicts.

List of attacks against civilian Arabs: 250 or so died.

List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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You should know by now what is my opinion on attacks against civilians. And it doesn't matter at all who is doing the killing Jews or Arabs. Ezel (Irgun Zvai leumi - national armed organization). Those who took part in the killings were murderers and scums, you won't hear a single positive word for them from me, even though they were on "my" side. However only a small part of the organization took part in attacks against civilians, most were guarding Jewish population against Arabs who were also targeting civilians at the time.
I don't like to use the words terrorism because it's used so much now in so many different contexts that it lost meaning. So lets stick to attacks against civilians. But you can call them terrorists if you like, I see them as such.

Most of the Jewish population was against such attacks, and the much larger organization spoke against them. Furthermore the Hagana and other have finally acted against the small organization who were attacking civilians.

Haganah leaders placed in charge included Yigal Allon, Moshe Dayan, Yisrael Galili, Moshe Sneh, Yaakov Dori, Eliyahu Golomb and Teddy Kollek. A special force was made out of Palmah and SHAI men, some of whom were specifically trained for the mission. It was commanded by Shimon Avidan.

The Saison unit began following Irgun members for reconnaissance. A list of Irgun donors that was found was handed over to the British. Unit squadrons arrested Irgun members in hiding places in Kibbutzim (Ein Harod, Mishmar HaEmek and Alonim, among others). Irgun vice commander Ya'akov Meridor was even handed over to the British while Yaakov Tavin, the head of the Irgun intelligence, was held in solitary confinement at Ein Harod for about six months.

During the Saison, the “department for special tasks" provided the British with information regarding several hundred Irgun members and armories. The transfer of information was conducted mostly by Kollek, who had direct contact with MI5.[4][5] Thanks to that information, several Irgun leaders and hundreds of its members were arrested and some were even deported to detainment camps in Africa (mostly in Eritrea).

The Hunting Season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was there a similar backlash against the Arabs who attacked Israeli civilians or British? No.
They are celebrated to this day. see the difference?



King David bombing is a poor example. They was no intention to kill anyone, read your link a warning was given but not headed:

American author Thurston Clarke's analysis of the bombing gave timings for calls and for the explosion which he said took place at 12:37. He stated that as part of the Irgun plan, a sixteen year old recruit, Adina Hay (alias Tehia), was to make three warning calls before the attack. At 12:22 the first call was made, in both Hebrew and English, to a telephone operator on the hotel's switchboard (the Secretariat and the military each had their own, separate, telephone exchanges). It was ignored.[4] At 12:27, the second warning call was made to the French Consulate adjacent to the hotel to the north-east. This second call was taken seriously, and staff went through the building opening windows and closing curtains to lessen the impact of the blast. At 12:31 a third and final warning call to the Palestine Post newspaper was made. The telephone operator called the Palestine Police CID to report the message. She then called the hotel switchboard. The hotel operator reported the threat to one of the hotel managers. This warning resulted in the discovery of the milk cans in the basement, but by then it was too late.[

Finally, when you advocate that the Arab Palestinians have a right to attack Israeli civilians you grant the same right to the Jews to attack Arab civilians.
When you support attacks against Israeli civilians, you are supporting the opposite response from us.
 
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You should know by now what is my opinion on attacks against civilians. And it doesn't matter at all who is doing the killing Jews or Arabs. Ezel (Irgun Zvai leumi - national armed organization). Those who took part in the killings were murderers and scums, you won't hear a single positive word for them from me, even though they were on "my" side. However only a small part of the organization took part in attacks against civilians, most were guarding Jewish population against Arabs who were also targeting civilians at the time.
I don't like to use the words terrorism because it's used so much now in so many different contexts that it lost meaning. So lets stick to attacks against civilians. But you can call them terrorists if you like, I see them as such.

Most of the Jewish population was against such attacks, and the much larger organization spoke against them. Furthermore the Hagana and other have finally acted against the small organization who were attacking civilians.

Haganah leaders placed in charge included Yigal Allon, Moshe Dayan, Yisrael Galili, Moshe Sneh, Yaakov Dori, Eliyahu Golomb and Teddy Kollek. A special force was made out of Palmah and SHAI men, some of whom were specifically trained for the mission. It was commanded by Shimon Avidan.

The Saison unit began following Irgun members for reconnaissance. A list of Irgun donors that was found was handed over to the British. Unit squadrons arrested Irgun members in hiding places in Kibbutzim (Ein Harod, Mishmar HaEmek and Alonim, among others). Irgun vice commander Ya'akov Meridor was even handed over to the British while Yaakov Tavin, the head of the Irgun intelligence, was held in solitary confinement at Ein Harod for about six months.

During the Saison, the “department for special tasks" provided the British with information regarding several hundred Irgun members and armories. The transfer of information was conducted mostly by Kollek, who had direct contact with MI5.[4][5] Thanks to that information, several Irgun leaders and hundreds of its members were arrested and some were even deported to detainment camps in Africa (mostly in Eritrea).

The Hunting Season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Was there a similar backlash against the Arabs who attacked Israeli civilians or British? No.
They are celebrated to this day. see the difference?



King David bombing is a poor example. They was no intention to kill anyone, read your link a warning was given but not headed:

American author Thurston Clarke's analysis of the bombing gave timings for calls and for the explosion which he said took place at 12:37. He stated that as part of the Irgun plan, a sixteen year old recruit, Adina Hay (alias Tehia), was to make three warning calls before the attack. At 12:22 the first call was made, in both Hebrew and English, to a telephone operator on the hotel's switchboard (the Secretariat and the military each had their own, separate, telephone exchanges). It was ignored.[4] At 12:27, the second warning call was made to the French Consulate adjacent to the hotel to the north-east. This second call was taken seriously, and staff went through the building opening windows and closing curtains to lessen the impact of the blast. At 12:31 a third and final warning call to the Palestine Post newspaper was made. The telephone operator called the Palestine Police CID to report the message. She then called the hotel switchboard. The hotel operator reported the threat to one of the hotel managers. This warning resulted in the discovery of the milk cans in the basement, but by then it was too late.[

Finally, when you advocate that the Arab Palestinians have a right to attack Israeli civilians you grant the same right to the Jews to attack Arab civilians.
When you support attacks against Israeli civilians, you are supporting the opposite response from us.

Eh, I don't actually know your views. I rarely discussed with you and if that was the case we never discussed those issues.

I don't quite frankly think that the majority of Palestinian Arabs or Jewish settlers were interested in any armed conflict. I believe that they wanted to go on with their business and live normally as they did before.

Also you forgot one main thing. The Jews were not interested in an armed conflict. Their plan was to emigrate in big numbers, keep quite as much as possible and then gain the favor of the British. Meanwhile prominent Jewish families in Europe, USA and elsewhere were propagandizing for an Jewish state. The events during WW2 gave them a great argument of a homeland and 3 years after (in 1948) they got that. Palestinians on the other hand went from living among few Jews (with barely any problems) to suddenly being surrounded by thousands of newcomers from Europe and elsewhere. That claimed that land based on some mythical rights given by them by God. Or some perpetrated Jewish ancestry to some Israelite tribes.

That is a vague argument. You have not asked all Palestinians. Besides they view the conflict entirely differently. They see your entity as an illegal entity that invaded and stole the lands they had inhabited. They are not viewing the conflict from the same premise as you are.

Most Israeli Jews probably also view their army as heroes nor do they condemn any of their actions despite them having killed plenty of civilians and not being the best of God's children either.

Excuse me but I don't advocate anything. I am just telling you that some people view certain people/groups as terrorists while others regard them as freedom fighters. Likewise I wrote that civilians in any armed conflict will suffer.

How did that turn into advocating for the killings of civilians?
 
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I agree with much of what you've said, and have no mind arguing specifics.

I would like to specifically address this:

How did that turn into advocating for the killings of civilians?

I should have written "if" instead of "when", or "one" instead of "you". I didn't mean for it to be ambiguous, so I apologize if I was misunderstood.

and this:

Most Israeli Jews probably also view their army as heroes nor do they condemn any of their actions despite them having killed plenty of civilians and not being the best of God's children either.

They do condemn actions which are targeting civilians, check out the Israeli response after Sabra and Shtila, the biggest Israeli demonstration till that time. All this for an event where Israel was only allied with the actual killers. The Irgun was denounced and acted against.

Sure, civilians will suffer in any war. But attacking civilians should be avoided when possible, not vice verse.
 
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I agree with much of what you've said, and have no mind arguing specifics.

I would like to specifically address this:



I should have written "if" instead of "when", or "one" instead of "you". I didn't mean for it to be ambiguous, so I apologize if I was misunderstood.

and this:



They do condemn actions which are targeting civilians, check out the Israeli response after Sabra and Shtila, the biggest Israeli demonstration till that time. All this for an event where Israel was not only allied with the actual killers. The Irgun was denounced and acted against.

Sure, civilians will suffer in any war. But attacking civilians should be avoided when possible, not vice verse.

Fair enough and no harm done.

I am talking about a specific group of people. Radicals, terrorists, extreme right-wing Zionists, war-mongers etc. Call it what you want.

I don't believe that they are a majority in Israel but I do believe that they are not an insignificant group. Likewise you have those types in Palestine which are neither insignificant. Such conflicts tend to radicalize people especially when it concerns such important issues like the ones found in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

If long-time killings are also a aspect in the conflict then well it only add to the fire.
 
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