Only 3 ASEAN States at US Democracy Summit? Not Bad, Say Analysts

[Stranagor]

Participants should make sure that they are not being spied on. Better use domestic or non-US media.

How even your deleted messages can be secretly accessed by US intelligence agencies

A new study spells out in alarming detail how easy it is for American security services and law enforcement agencies to bypass conventional legal routes to access all manner of confidential data from your phone.

www.rt.com

 

[comci]

Indonesian people support democracy, this event is inline with our interest. More democracy forum Indonesian government participate, more democracy idea exposure come to our people, media, and leaders. This will make the root of democracy value strengthen to our people.

If you dont like democracy, it is your own problem and it means you are quite content with the way your country is being lead. We have different value in this matter and as Muslim I see democracy has similar concept with what our God stated in Quran. All of first 4 Caliph were also elected through people consultation, even the first one, Abu Bakr includes heat debate and votings.

Quran, As-Syura verse 42

"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance" [are praised] [3]

--------------------------------------

Indonesia is present with full team

Do you truly believe what you wrote so far regarding Indonesia and democracy? Let me ask you': "what do you define as democracy?' Let me guess: democracy is according to you once in 4 or 5 years put your vote on a political candidate?

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, how come Aceh has sharia law and ignored non muslims minorities rights who are treated with sharia law too although they are not muslims?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407?journalCode=cicm20

Islam and Dormant Citizenship: Soft Religious Ethno-Nationalism and Minorities in Aceh, Indonesia
Moch Nur Ichwan
,
Arskal Salim
&
Eka Srimulyani

Pages 215-240 | Received 05 Jun 2020, Accepted 06 Jun 2020, Published online: 08 Jul 2020

• Download citation
• https://doi.org/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407
• CrossMark

• Full Article
• Figures & data
• References
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ABSTRACT
This article aims at examining the recent (re)construction of citizenship in Aceh, which is based on sharia as well as on ethno-religious nationalism, and the impact of this (re)construction on minority rights in the province. Because sharia has become a cultural, social, political and legal fact in Aceh, the province has gradually created its own notion of civic belonging, which departs from national citizenship, defined by religion and protected by religious ethno-nationalism. It is argued that such religious ethno-nationalism has created what we call dormant citizenship, in which citizens of Aceh are divided on the basis of religious affiliation into ‘ummatic citizens’, who are considered as the ‘hosts’ of the sharia land with their full rights, and non-ummatic citizens, who are considered as ‘guests’ with only partial rights provided by the ‘hosts’. We shall also argue that dormant citizenship is a synthesis between four political traditions: Islamic, ethnic, Indonesian, and Western. At the end of this article, we shall outline some conditions that might enable non-Muslims to enjoy much broader rights.

‘Shame and humiliation’: Aceh’s Islamic law violates human rights

Punishments under Sharia are rooted in cultural traditions and few are willing to speak publicly against it.

www.aljazeera.com

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let the orang maluku be independent?

Republic of South Maluku - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let West-Papua be independent ?

The requested content has been archived

This content has been archived in the Parliamentary database: ParlInfo. You can use the advanced search to limit your search to Bills Digests and/or Library Publications, Seminars and Lectures as required. ParlInfo search tips are also available. Otherwise click here to retu

www.aph.gov.au

Fact is Indonesia is only democracy on paper like the rest of so called asian democratic countries. The so called 3 separation of powers (the cornerstones of democracy): legislature, executive branch and judiciary are somehow intertwined with each other by corruption.

Then you claimed that democracy fits within islam. Any chance you are fan of muslim bortherhood?
I doubt the Taliban in Afghanistan or muslim in Aceh share your point of view ragarding compatibility of islam and democracy.

If any Indonesia will turned into strict muslim country in the future and not democracy as you hope. One just need to see the islamic policy situation in Indonesia.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Participants should make sure that they are not being spied on. Better use domestic or non-US media.

How even your deleted messages can be secretly accessed by US intelligence agencies

A new study spells out in alarming detail how easy it is for American security services and law enforcement agencies to bypass conventional legal routes to access all manner of confidential data from your phone.

www.rt.com

In China and Russia you don't even need a court order.
When have you ever heard of a case in Russia or China where the police claimed a court blocked their ability to track somebody? Yeah right!

 

[Indos]

Do you truly believe what you wrote so far regarding Indonesia and democracy? Let me ask you': "what do you define as democracy?' Let me guess: democracy is according to you once in 4 or 5 years put your vote on a political candidate?

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, how come Aceh has sharia law and ignored non muslims minorities rights who are treated with sharia law too although they are not muslims?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407?journalCode=cicm20

Islam and Dormant Citizenship: Soft Religious Ethno-Nationalism and Minorities in Aceh, Indonesia
Moch Nur Ichwan
,
Arskal Salim
&
Eka Srimulyani

Pages 215-240 | Received 05 Jun 2020, Accepted 06 Jun 2020, Published online: 08 Jul 2020

• Download citation
• https://doi.org/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407
• CrossMark

• Full Article
• Figures & data
• References
• Citations
• Metrics
• Reprints & Permissions
• Get access

ABSTRACT
This article aims at examining the recent (re)construction of citizenship in Aceh, which is based on sharia as well as on ethno-religious nationalism, and the impact of this (re)construction on minority rights in the province. Because sharia has become a cultural, social, political and legal fact in Aceh, the province has gradually created its own notion of civic belonging, which departs from national citizenship, defined by religion and protected by religious ethno-nationalism. It is argued that such religious ethno-nationalism has created what we call dormant citizenship, in which citizens of Aceh are divided on the basis of religious affiliation into ‘ummatic citizens’, who are considered as the ‘hosts’ of the sharia land with their full rights, and non-ummatic citizens, who are considered as ‘guests’ with only partial rights provided by the ‘hosts’. We shall also argue that dormant citizenship is a synthesis between four political traditions: Islamic, ethnic, Indonesian, and Western. At the end of this article, we shall outline some conditions that might enable non-Muslims to enjoy much broader rights.

‘Shame and humiliation’: Aceh’s Islamic law violates human rights

Punishments under Sharia are rooted in cultural traditions and few are willing to speak publicly against it.

www.aljazeera.com

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let the orang maluku be independent?

Republic of South Maluku - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let West-Papua be independent ?

The requested content has been archived

This content has been archived in the Parliamentary database: ParlInfo. You can use the advanced search to limit your search to Bills Digests and/or Library Publications, Seminars and Lectures as required. ParlInfo search tips are also available. Otherwise click here to retu

www.aph.gov.au

Fact is Indonesia is only democracy on paper like the rest of so called asian democratic countries. The so called 3 separation of powers (the cornerstones of democracy): legislature, executive branch and judiciary are somehow intertwined with each other by corruption.

Then you claimed that democracy fits within islam. Any chance you are fan of muslim bortherhood?
I doubt the Taliban in Afghanistan or muslim in Aceh share your point of view ragarding compatibility of islam and democracy.

If any Indonesia will turned into strict muslim country in the future and not democracy as you hope. One just need to see the islamic policy situation in Indonesia.

1. Shariah Islam is the positive law for Aceh province, Muslim and Non Muslim should apply on the law. Deal with it. We are not living in Malaysia.


2. Shariah Islam that is not applied in Indonesian other provinces is only in criminal law. If we insert Shariah Islam into our criminal law through legislation process which is very possible based on our democratic system, then whole Indonesian citizen and resident will be effected on that, Muslim and Non Muslim. Once again, we are not following Malaysian law.

Indonesia Begins Mandatory Halal Certification on Drugs, Cosmetics

Prior to the new regime, halal certification and labeling were conducted solely by the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI).

jakartaglobe.id

3. Corruption is getting smaller in Indonesia. The latest big catch is one of House speaker chairmans

Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports
BY :THE JAKARTA GLOBE
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021

Jakarta. House of Representatives Deputy Speaker Azis Syamsuddin has been named a corruption suspect for allegedly bribing an anti-graft investigator, according to local media reports on Thursday.

The news has been widely anticipated since his alleged role was mentioned publicly several times, including in the indictment against the disgraced investigator in July.

The Golkar Party politician has allegedly bribed Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) investigator Stepanus Robin Pattuju in an attempt to drop graft investigation into budget allocation for the district of Central Lampung, Lampung province, in 2017.

Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports

Azis has allegedly bribed a KPK investigator to drop a case against him and asked a similar favor for a fellow party member.

jakartaglobe.id

 

[Indos]

Mandatory halal certificates to take effect this year, MUI reminds
​

News Desk (The Jakarta Post) Jakarta ●
Thu, March 21, 2019

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MU) has reminded all food, medicine and cosmetics manufacturers that they must obtain halal certificates for their products because new halal product legislation will begin to take effect this year.

“Based on the law on halal product assurance, halal certification is mandatory this year. Therefore all products that enter [the Indonesian market] should have halal certificates,” said the MUI's Food and Drug Analysis Agency (LPPOM) director Lukmanul Hakim in Semarang, Central Java, on Tuesday.

He was referring to Law No. 33/2014 on halal product assurance that mandates the Halal Certification Agency (BPJPH) to start implementing mandatory halal certification.

Mandatory halal certificates to take effect this year, MUI reminds

Based on the law on halal product assurance, halal certification becomes mandatory starting this year.

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[Indos]

Some Corruption case this latest 6 months alone

Former Minister Juliari Faces 11 Years in Prison for Alleged Graft in Covid-19 Aid Program

BY :THE JAKARTA GLOBE
JULY 28, 2021

Former Minister Juliari Faces 11 Years in Prison for Alleged Graft in Covid-19 Aid Program

Earlier this month, another former minister in the Jokowi cabinet was sentenced to five years in jail for corruption.

jakartaglobe.id

Bupati Probolinggo Ditetapkan Sebagai Tersangka Korupsi, Rumah Mewahnya Akhirnya Terungkap. Banyak Mobil Mahal!
By Samala Mahadi 31 Agustus 2021 26868

Bupati Probolinggo Ditetapkan sebagai Tersangka Korupsi, Rumah Mewahnya Akhirnya Terungkap. Banyak Mobil Mahal!

Setelah ditetapkan sebagai tersangka korupsi, kini rumah mewah Bupati Probolinggo jadi tampak sepi. Seperti apa keadaan dan penampakan rumahnya? Simak di

www.99.co

 

[vi-va]

Mark me words:

1. Indonesia will be ruled by sharia law in 2 generations.
2. Pancasila will be abandoned like a piece of meaningless paper.
3. Indonesia will be a bigger version of Aceh provience.
4. Secular and religious group will fight with each other, but secular will find themselves no place in Indonesia.

Like it or not, that's the outcome of Indonesia one man one vote system.

 

[Indos]

Mark me words:

1. Indonesia will be ruled by sharia law in 2 generations.
2. Pancasila will be abandoned like a piece of meaningless paper.
3. Indonesia will be a bigger version of Aceh provience.
4. Secular and religious group will fight with each other, but secular will find themselves no place in Indonesia.

Like it or not, that's the outcome of Indonesia one man one vote system.

Pancasila and Islam is in no conflict. Saying Pancasila is against Islam is only said by ISIS member to fool few Indonesians.

Where is in Pancasila that is against Islam....? I am waiting.........

Soekarno in one time tried to change Pancasila sila (principle) order and he wanted to put "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa" or "Believe in One and Only God" in last sila, but he failed

Sharia Law that many hard line Islamist member advocating is just in Criminal Law, we can insert it through legislation process in parliament, no big deal, no need to change Pancasila and our constitution for that. Our Constitution Courts Chairman and Judges have already said that Shariah Islam is one of the source of positive law in modern Indonesia.

Like in economic sector we have Shariah law about banking and other finance related laws

Indonesia Controls 23% of Global Sharia Bonds Issuance: Finance Minister
BY :TRIYAN PANGASTUTI
OCTOBER 26, 2021

Indonesia Controls 23% of Global Sharia Bonds Issuance: Finance Minister

Since 2018, the government has issued $3.5 billion worth of Sukuk with competitive returns to investors.

jakartaglobe.id

We have Shariah Bank SOE and it is 7 biggest bank in Indonesia

 

[Indos]

We put Tauhid symbol (Star) at the heart of Pancasila and it is our FIRST SILA (Principle) means The most important principle in Pancasila.

 

[vi-va]

Pancasila and Islam is in no conflict. Saying Pancasila is against Islam is only said by ISIS member to fool few Indonesians.

Where is in Pancasila that is against Islam....? I am waiting.........


View attachment 800205


Soekarno in one time tried to change Pancasila sila (principle) order and he wanted to put "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa" or "Believe in One and Only God" in last sila, but he failed

Sharia Law that many hard line Islamist member advocating is just in Criminal Law, we can insert it through legislation process in parliament, no big deal, no need to change Pancasila and our constitution for that. Our Constitution Courts Chairman and Judges have already said that Shariah Islam is one of the source of positive law in modern Indonesia.

Like in economic sector we have Shariah law about banking and other finance related laws

Indonesia Controls 23% of Global Sharia Bonds Issuance: Finance Minister
BY :TRIYAN PANGASTUTI
OCTOBER 26, 2021

Indonesia Controls 23% of Global Sharia Bonds Issuance: Finance Minister

Since 2018, the government has issued $3.5 billion worth of Sukuk with competitive returns to investors.

jakartaglobe.id

We have Shariah Bank SOE and it is 7 biggest bank in Indonesia

I guess you are about the same age as mine, 40+. You experienced Indonesia transformation during college time.

Sharia Law is not a law at all. It's a ruling principle. Sharia Law requires the Islamist and Islam rule the country, not the constitution, not the people, but the Quran.

You want democracy, of the people, by the people, for the people.

I am not sure if you will still be happy with the possible outcome when you are about 70. I understand your emotional investment in the so-called Democracy Transformation of Indonesia.

We will see.

 

[Indos]

I guess you are about the same age as mine, 40+. You experienced Indonesia transformation during college time.

Sharia Law is not a law at all. It's a ruling principle. Sharia Law requires the Islamist and Islam rule the country, not the constitution, not the people, but the Quran.

You want democracy, of the people, by the people, for the people.

I am not sure if you will still be happy with the possible outcome when you are about 70. I understand your emotional investment in the so-called Democracy Transformation of Indonesia.

We will see.

You dont have intellectual credibility to teach me about Islam as you are not Muslim and only see Islam in the lense of Taliban and others.

I have learned Islam since kids as not only my father has good knowledge on Islam, but also my uncle. I dont need to reveal who is my uncle but he is in very knowledgeable about Islam. Just give you a glance that my uncle has published book about Islam and it is not a simple book. Along my life, I have long hours talking about Islam with them. My dad has passed away though quite long.

I also have read whole quran verses in Indonesian translation not only once and read many hadith and listen to many lectures like Quraish Shihab.

 

[vi-va]

You dont have intellectual credibility to teach me about Islam as you are not Muslim and only see Islam in the lense of Taliban and others.

I have learned Islam since kids as not only my father has good knowledge on Islam, but also my uncle. I dont need to reveal who is my uncle but he is in very knowledgeable about Islam. Just give you a glance that my uncle has published book about Islam and it is not a simple book. Along my life, I have long hours talking about Islam with them. My dad has passed away though quite long.

I also have read whole quran verses in Indonesian translation not only once and read many hadith and listen to many lectures like Quraish Shihab.

You misunderstood me. I don't want to offend anyone, or play down others, or others' faith. It's your freedom as long as don't bother me, or don't think you are above me morally.

I bet if the whole or majority of Indonesia population are as knowledgeable as you, I truly believe you guys will have a good ruling, with or without Sharia law. But is that the case?

Tell me which country ruled by Sharia law developed well? There must be a reason behind it. My point is not that Sharia law is good or not, it's none of my business at all.

But I do have a political view that, hundreds of countries had tried all kind of governance in past hundreds of years, and some of them developed well, while some of them haven't. We just need to learn the good practice and avoid the bad one.

My prediction is: Indonesia will be divided by 2 factions, secular and religious group, a kind of like Turkey today. The cities will be more secular, while the countries will be more religious.

Political parities will try to please the religious group, then Indonesia will gradually be ruled by Sharia Law.

It's purely a political analysis, because I am in no position to judge you whatsoever.

 

[Brainsucker]

Do you truly believe what you wrote so far regarding Indonesia and democracy? Let me ask you': "what do you define as democracy?' Let me guess: democracy is according to you once in 4 or 5 years put your vote on a political candidate?

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, how come Aceh has sharia law and ignored non muslims minorities rights who are treated with sharia law too although they are not muslims?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407?journalCode=cicm20

Islam and Dormant Citizenship: Soft Religious Ethno-Nationalism and Minorities in Aceh, Indonesia
Moch Nur Ichwan
,
Arskal Salim
&
Eka Srimulyani

Pages 215-240 | Received 05 Jun 2020, Accepted 06 Jun 2020, Published online: 08 Jul 2020

• Download citation
• https://doi.org/10.1080/09596410.2020.1780407
• 

ABSTRACT
This article aims at examining the recent (re)construction of citizenship in Aceh, which is based on sharia as well as on ethno-religious nationalism, and the impact of this (re)construction on minority rights in the province. Because sharia has become a cultural, social, political and legal fact in Aceh, the province has gradually created its own notion of civic belonging, which departs from national citizenship, defined by religion and protected by religious ethno-nationalism. It is argued that such religious ethno-nationalism has created what we call dormant citizenship, in which citizens of Aceh are divided on the basis of religious affiliation into ‘ummatic citizens’, who are considered as the ‘hosts’ of the sharia land with their full rights, and non-ummatic citizens, who are considered as ‘guests’ with only partial rights provided by the ‘hosts’. We shall also argue that dormant citizenship is a synthesis between four political traditions: Islamic, ethnic, Indonesian, and Western. At the end of this article, we shall outline some conditions that might enable non-Muslims to enjoy much broader rights.

‘Shame and humiliation’: Aceh’s Islamic law violates human rights

Punishments under Sharia are rooted in cultural traditions and few are willing to speak publicly against it.

www.aljazeera.com

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let the orang maluku be independent?

Republic of South Maluku - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Indonesia truly believe in democracy, would Indonesia let West-Papua be independent ?

The requested content has been archived

This content has been archived in the Parliamentary database: ParlInfo. You can use the advanced search to limit your search to Bills Digests and/or Library Publications, Seminars and Lectures as required. ParlInfo search tips are also available. Otherwise click here to retu

www.aph.gov.au

Fact is Indonesia is only democracy on paper like the rest of so called asian democratic countries. The so called 3 separation of powers (the cornerstones of democracy): legislature, executive branch and judiciary are somehow intertwined with each other by corruption.

Then you claimed that democracy fits within islam. Any chance you are fan of muslim bortherhood?
I doubt the Taliban in Afghanistan or muslim in Aceh share your point of view ragarding compatibility of islam and democracy.

If any Indonesia will turned into strict muslim country in the future and not democracy as you hope. One just need to see the islamic policy situation in Indonesia.

First thing first, Democracy is not about freedom and human right. Democracy is not even about 3 separation of power. As it is actually the cornerstone of a Republic. Basically Democracy is a rule of power based on popularity. We vote somebody to make him/her powerful and rich. At the other side, those men and women who want our vote need to become popular. So they tend to promise many things based on popular demand. And if they want to get vote again, will throw many popular policy that sometime sacrifice the country development course.

Indonesia call themselves a united country. So we won't allow separation of some part of our country.

 

[vi-va]

First thing first, Democracy is not about freedom and human right. Democracy is not even about 3 separation of power. As it is actually the cornerstone of a Republic. Basically Democracy is a rule of power based on popularity. We vote somebody to make him/her powerful and rich. At the other side, those men and women who want our vote need to become popular. So they tend to promise many things based on popular demand. And if they want to get vote again, will throw many popular policy that sometime sacrifice the country development course.

Indonesia call themselves a united country. So we won't allow separation of some part of our country.

My definition of Democracy is:
Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

There are many ways of doing this, but western liberal democracy failed to deliver in most developing countries, while created a lot of issues in developed countries as well.

 

[Brainsucker]

My definition of Democracy is:
Government of the people, by the people, for the people.

There are many ways of doing this, but western liberal democracy failed to deliver in most developing countries, while created a lot of issues in developed countries as well.

Well, my definition of democracy is :
Government based on popularity