Only 11% want Democracy

[SQ8]

So similarly there is no moral authority or value in the system of governance that is Democracy??

None what so ever, Moral authority is through law..
Law is defined by the people as they so wish it to be.

If you had a state made up of only criminals..and they did enact laws..would you expect them to be just?

 

[muse]

None what so ever, Moral authority is through law..
Law is defined by the people as they so wish it to be.

If you had a state made up of only criminals..and they did enact laws..would you expect them to be just?

Would such a state be a democracy? or a Khilafat? what does it matter? well since you asked, in the khilafat the law could not be changed, after all, can the laws of Go be changed by men? whereas in a democracy they could be - they be just or unjust.

 

[SQ8]

Would such a state be a democracy? or a Khilafat? what does it matter? well since you asked, in the khilafat the law could not be changed, after all, can the laws of Go be changed by men? whereas in a democracy they could be - they be just or unjust.

No they cant, which in itself is security in such a state.
But here's the glitch...the laws of god are just.. if they are to be implemented by men of understanding.
Would it not suit men of understanding.. to read through those laws and see how modern forensics may be substituted for the need for 4 men as evidence? But alas.. where to we find men of understanding and scholars.. and not glorified librarians.

Similarly Democracy is a tool that may be used for the good of men.. or misused.
After all, there are states which have democracy but the votes end up being counted for criminals because the voter bank is too illiterate and too poor to think otherwise. Voter banks that vote for a person(who eventually becomes the FM) and yet nothing changes for their conditions.. and they remain the same downtrodden shabby bunch..
And when they are asked why they voted for the same people, even though their conditions are in tatters.. they reply "Because our family has always voted for them".
Is that not then a failure of democracy? Where it is in essence working and yet ensuring that only the worst govern?
Again.. this is very hypothetical state.. It'd be a shame to think that such a horrifying catch-22 would be going on.

 

[muse]

No they cant, which in itself is security in such a state.
But here's the glitch...the laws of god are just.. if they are to be implemented by men of understanding.
Would it not suit men of understanding.. to read through those laws and see how modern forensics may be substituted for the need for 4 men as evidence? But alas.. where to we find men of understanding and scholars.. and not glorified librarians.

Similarly Democracy is a tool that may be used for the good of men.. or misused.
After all, there are states which have democracy but the votes end up being counted for criminals because the voter bank is too illiterate and too poor to think otherwise. Voter banks that vote for a person(who eventually becomes the FM) and yet nothing changes for their conditions.. and they remain the same downtrodden shabby bunch..
And when they are asked why they voted for the same people, even though their conditions are in tatters.. they reply "Because our family has always voted for them".
Is that not then a failure of democracy? Where it is in essence working and yet ensuring that only the worst govern?
Again.. this is very hypothetical state.. It'd be a shame to think that such a horrifying catch-22 would be going on.

Yes but the point is with Khilafat, should "vivid apprehension" fail, one would be in a position of challenging God, where as with troublesome Democracy, not only is the leadership subject to delivering results, it is subject to change, as is the law, and therefore society becomes dynamic and not ossiifed as in khilafat

 

[somebozo]

I would interpret the survey as a society becomes more radicalized and desperate to the point that they would start believing in obsolete and rather dubious concepts of governance ie: Khilafat!

 

[muse]

And also. lets face it, you can sell any kind of dog dodo in Pakistan, as long as the appellation "Islamic" is fixed on it - it's not as Pakistanis have a clue as to what Islam is -- and then similarly, Democracy has not delivered, it really thought of as an end and not means.

 

[SQ8]

Yes but the point is with Khilafat, should "vivid apprehension" fail, one would be in a position of challenging God, where as with troublesome Democracy, not only is the leadership subject to delivering results, it is subject to change, as is the law, and therefore society becomes dynamic and not ossiifed as in khilafat

Depends on to what extent is one hell bent on disagreeing with god.
After all. If one is hell bent on classifying the teachings within scripture or those that brought it as archaic. Then one is at liberty to find every excuse to label it obstruse and bad without an iota of wish to understand.. something mirrored by the very people that they claim to oppose as "religious extremists". A closed mind of such a person who has an apprehension from God or his laws cannot comprehend that leadership within Khilafat if it does not deliver results is bound to change.That is the original idea... nor is that idea too far from what is considered a senate presidency.. which ironically is nacent democracy.
No "Rules" for Khilafat exist.. nor has it been defined as such. All that there is are guidelines based on a leadership model that was created for the times.
If the system that is EXACTLY democracy.. but is labelled Khilafat will still invite apprehension and instigation.. then it becomes less about the issues within the two systems and more about simply rejecting anything that smells like Islam.

After all.. all the nonsense put up by groups like Hizb-ut-Tahrir and the like to implement Khilafat ignores the basic idea; "Provide the best leadership". If that leadership is ensured by a system that allows people to choose and elect the most qualified from among them through checks and balances.. and brings them into power.. and keeps them in check through a constitution that provides for all.. then the leader is a Khalifa.. a representative of the people.
So if one decides not to use the moniker of Prime Minister or President and decides to use Khalifa.. does that make him automatically backward and undesirable?

 

[muse]

Come on now - we have as humanity gone through this before - how hell bent? Copernicus? and how many other "heresies" and inquisitions - not suggesting that we would have the same just that it's all been done before - :


Come on all you Muslims and jews:

 

[Darth Vader]

Then may i know why do Muslims (like you) go to non-Muslim countries where there is no Khilafat?

OKA then Why non muslim countries using the Islamic laws

 

[somebozo]

the Best system Ever Created For every one who was born and will be born

So said someone who is proud to display two flags of an "infidel, secular & atheist" state. Perhaps you should go to somalia and try to live under Al Shabab rule for few days.

Then may i know why do Muslims (like you) go to non-Muslim countries where there is no Khilafat?

Its not their fault but rather that of parents who neglected their children and left them at the mercy of uneducated mullah at the local mosque. You will find many pristine examples like these in Western Europe particularly in Norway, Denmark and Belgium. The Khilafah indoctrination happens to be quite extreme among them as many of the local mosques in these countries are manned by a Turkish radical Imam who fled Kemalist Turkey for the fear of persecution.

OKA then Why non muslim countries using the Islamic laws

I would have thought you were delusional but now I believe you are retarded too.

 

[batmannow]

With so much division even on different versions of islam, which khilafat we are looking at?
Berailvi,deobandi,talbani,jaffri?
Or jhangvi?
When understanding of islam is 10% what kind of system we want to built on?
Its simple let chinese democracy run pakistan brutly at least 20 years with targated progress of education,economy,health & defenc , land reforms & agriculturl taxation !
Everything will be all right!

 

[Matrixx]

How many wants Taliban to rule ?

 

[AdeelFaheem]

Can a Khilafat be impure? If Khilafat is by definition "good", how can it be other than pure?

If Pakistan Muslim League comes into power and declare its govt. as Khilafat and Make Nawaz Sharif "Amir ul Momineen", I will not accept such Khilafat.
now you know what i meant by "Pure one."
sorry to say but i wasnt expecting such question from a Think Tank.

 

[muse]

If Pakistan Muslim League comes into power and declare its govt. as Khilafat and Make Nawaz Sharif "Amir ul Momineen", I will not accept such Khilafat.

sorry to say but i wasnt expecting such question from a Think Tank.

Perhaps you have been too fast and need to think about what I was referring to -- Is there is no inherent moral value to Khilafaat?
If as explained by Oscar, that there is none - then we have a problem and if there is, then we have a problem, after all, it does begin to compare with the moral value of Democracy.

Oscar points out that what matters is leadership - and you seem to agree -- well, why then khilafat?

 

[Black Widow]

An international company, MEMRB which offers custom analysis to address special issues, conducted nationwide survey in Pakistan. They asked question about ruling system in Pakistan. Question was “Which Ruling System can solve Pakistan’s Problems?”


Options were as follows

1. Democracy

2. Dominion

3. Islamic Khilafat

4. Martial Law

5. Any other

This survey had been made on 30 cities and 60 villages from all over Pakistan. All age group took part in this survey while different level of educated people also participated in survey. The result of survey was as follows.

1. Democracy (Only 11%)

2. Dominion (Only 6%)

3. Khilafat (53%)

4. Martial Law (22%) P

5. Islamic Democracy (Only 2%)

Majority of Pakistan’s want Pure Islamic system in Pakistan i.e.; Khilafah, while only 11% want democracy which is current ruling system in our state.

Some people claim that only well educated people want democracy and illiterate people know nothing about real worth of pure democracy. But this survey exposed there claim, more than 56% people who favored Khilafah, either they were under primary or above Graduate. People from big cities also want Khilafat. In Karachi, Lahore & Islamabad 40% people want martial law, 39% Khilafat while 15% democracy.

This is not a single survey which showed these type of stats but many other international survey companies found same results in past. US also warned Pakistan that fundamental Islamic sentiments are very high in Pakistan which is a potential threat for modern democratic world.

Awami Web » MEMRB Survey Report About Ruling System In Pakistan

What was the sample size? what was the audience targeted? Was the demographic consideration was taken into consideration? was Ladies included into poll..???

Lets come first with these datas, then we will decide what this mean..