On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank

[Fighter488]

On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank
Sachin Parashar, TNN 22 December 2009, 09:09am

NEW DELHI: For India, international recognition of its free and pluralistic society has always been hard to come by and while things are changing, they are clearly changing slowly. A study carried out by Washington-based Pew Research Centre, the highly respected US thinktank, said India is next only to Iraq when it comes to social hostility and religious discrimination perpetrated by individuals and groups.

The study titled `Global Restrictions on Religion' took into account the situation in as many as 198 countries, North Korea being the only notable exception, to derive the conclusion. India was just below Iraq and well above countries like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan when it came to social hostility in the country. Pakistan is at the third place right below India.

The study, which claims to cover 99.5% of the world population, deals with restrictions imposed on religion not just by social groups and individuals but also by the government. Even in the case of government induced restrictions, India fares badly with its position in the top 40 countries out of the 198 mentioned.

Even though the report says that "the highest overall levels of restrictions are found in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Iran, where both the government and society at large impose numerous limits on religious beliefs and practices'' India is ranked well above them in the social hostility index.

While India has fared badly on both, China has done remarkably well when it comes to social hostility even though it has done badly in the government imposed restrictions section. "Vietnam and China, for instance, have high government restrictions on religion but are in the moderate or low range when it comes to social hostilities. Nigeria and Bangladesh follow the opposite pattern: high in social hostilities but moderate in terms of government actions,'' it says.

The report clubs India with Sri Lanka, Ethiopia and Bangladesh as countries where large segments of the population want to protect the special place of one particular religion. This is how it explains the high social hostility index for these countries. "Many of the restrictions imposed in these countries are driven by groups pressing for the enshrinement of their interpretation of the majority faith, including through Shariah law in Muslim societies and Hindutva movement in India which seeks to define India as a Hindu nation,'' says the report.

In preparing this study, states the report, the Pew Forum devised a battery of measures, phrased as questions, to gauge the levels of government and social restrictions on religion in each country. "To answer these questions, Pew Forum researchers combed through 16 widely cited, publicly available sources of information, including reports by the US State Department, the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion or Belief, the Council of the European Union, the United Kingdom's Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Human Rights Watch, the International Crisis Group, the Hudson Institute and Amnesty International,'' it states.

QnA: Although India is called a secular country, in reality have we ever been secular?

On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq: US thinktank - India - The Times of India

 

[BATMAN]

^^What is going on in india? are you trying to build up an opinion that there is one group of hindus which is not responsible for killing of minorities?
There is no such hindu.... you can go to US and meet hindus there theyar emore fundamentalist than local hindus.... I have seen american hindus praying while driving... they keep an elephant or a women with red tounge at their consouls and keep touching and adjusting them while driving.

 

[Iggy]

^^What is going on in india? are you trying to build up an opinion that there is one group of hindus which is not responsible for killing of minorities?
There is no such hindu.... you can go to US and meet hindus there theyar emore fundamentalist than local hindus.... I have seen american hindus praying while driving... they keep an elephant or a women with red tounge at their consouls and keep touching and adjusting them while driving.

Whats wrong with praying??I wear a chain with a cross in it and used to pray while starting work and before driving..As long as i am not hurting anybody in the name of religion what the problem in it??

 

[PlanetWarrior]

^^What is going on in india? are you trying to build up an opinion that there is one group of hindus which is not responsible for killing of minorities?
There is no such hindu.... you can go to US and meet hindus there theyar emore fundamentalist than local hindus.... I have seen american hindus praying while driving... they keep an elephant or a women with red tounge at their consouls and keep touching and adjusting them while driving.

Yeah and so your point is ? You getting worried by Hindus praying is as ridiculous as me getting worried in Botswana when I see some muslims continously holding some beads and chanting or wearing some islamic attire which covers their body. If you are inferring that all hindus are responsible for the killings of minorities in India then with respect that is as stupid as the statement that all muslims are terrorists which is a common mob saying in the USA.

 

[RobbieS]

^^What is going on in india? are you trying to build up an opinion that there is one group of hindus which is not responsible for killing of minorities?
There is no such hindu.... you can go to US and meet hindus there theyar emore fundamentalist than local hindus.... I have seen american hindus praying while driving... they keep an elephant or a women with red tounge at their consouls and keep touching and adjusting them while driving.

Batman, you really come up with hilarious things to say.

According to you keeping an image/idol of a deity in a car makes them fundamentalist? Is that the definition of a fundamentalist?

 

[BATMAN]

According to you keeping an image/idol of a deity in a car makes them fundamentalist? Is that the definition of a fundamentalist?

I have noticed some thing and i mentioned it...
I have not seen every Muslim as fundamentalist as every hindu i came across!

 

[Red Dwarf]

I have noticed some thing and i mentioned it...
I have not seen every Muslim as fundamentalist as every hindu i came across!

Can you define fundamentalism or who is fundamentalist according to you.

 

[Iggy]

I have noticed some thing and i mentioned it...
I have not seen every Muslim as fundamentalist as every hindu i came across!

Then care to explain what you meant with this bolded parts??

^^What is going on in india? are you trying to build up an opinion that there is one group of hindus which is not responsible for killing of minorities?
There is no such hindu.... you can go to US and meet hindus there theyar emore fundamentalist than local hindus.... I have seen american hindus praying while driving... they keep an elephant or a women with red tounge at their consouls and keep touching and adjusting them while driving.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

I have noticed some thing and i mentioned it...
I have not seen every Muslim as fundamentalist as every hindu i came across!

Then take those blinkers off your eyes the next time you leave Pakistan if you ever do and look around you. Hindus are far less fundamental about their religion than any other people. Hence they are easier to convert to Christianity or Islam etc. Non rural Hindus also do not display a mob mentality and condemn incidents where Hindus were wrong. I as a Hindu will go so far as condemning the destruction of the Babri mosque and the killing of Muslims in Gujrat. In fact I have former Hindu friends who converted to Islam and Christianity. Can you condemn 9/11 or 26/11 without trying to justify by insinuating that there was some conspiracy involving zionist jews in 9/11 or R&AW agents in 26/11 ? Will you associate with a former Muslim who converted to Hinduism or Christianity? Now tell me where the fundamentalism lies

 

[Hulk]

@BATMAN
We have idols as we believe in them, you do not because you do not believe in them. The people who are praying in car are doing it in their private space, I have seen Muslims praying at workplace which is not their private place. I also wants to say that we also have right to follow our religion.

 

[Fighter488]

This discussion is in wrong direction, I guess.

Religious discrimination do not STOP in INDIA only!
What is more important is the fact that vast population of South Asia, in particular, could not nurture the human capital to its full potential. This lead to not only under development but to let the resources go waste. In India and Pakistan people even destroy the developed resources in the name of religion!

What a pity?

 

[Iggy]

Heroes of Nariman House

How about using the first column of 2009 to write about an experience that will spread hope, happiness and good thoughts?

I spent the last 10 days of December in Mumbai, and participated in two events associated with the terror attacks of 26/11. The first was on December 21, when the Taj Mahal Hotel reopened its tower wing. The solemnity of the ceremony was made more memorable by Ratan Tata’s defiant words: “The enemies of India may have hurt us, but they will never knock us down.” The longest applause, of course, was reserved for the hotel employees who showed exemplary courage and dedication to duty even when death stared them in their faces. They were led by general manager Karanbir Kang, whose name has already joined the many legends of the Taj. He was busy saving guests on the ground floor, even as his own wife and two children were trapped in fire—and later found dead—in their top-floor room.

Another place, many more legends. On December 26, I attended a commemorative function near Nariman House, also in Colaba. The world watched a never-seen-before commando operation here against Pakistani terrorists, who had stormed a Jewish prayer centre, killing six inmates, one commando, Gajendra Singh, and four locals in the vicinity. Two images will remain etched in the minds of TV viewers: National Security Guard’s black-cat commandos being abseiled from a helicopter on the terrace of Nariman House; and hundreds of local residents shouting ‘Vande Mataram’ and ‘Bharat Mata ki jai’ on the morning of November 29, as they bade a heartfelt goodbye to the commandos after they successfully completed the operation.

But how many people know that this is where local Muslims rescued Hindu families in neighbouring buildings; where Shiv Sena activists saved Christian families and gave protection to a nearby mosque and a madarassa; where a Parsi baker—his bakery, located bang opposite Nariman House, still carries scores of bullet marks from the terrorists’ AK-47s—distributed bread to hungry neighbours; and where a Christian do-gooder carried the bullet-ridden body of a Hindu girl on his shoulders, reached her to the hospital and a month later, on Christmas, played Santa to her in the hospital ward?

The function near Nariman House was organised by Vijay Surve, head of the Shiv Sena’s Colaba branch. He and his ‘boys’ evacuated hundreds of residents of the nearby buildings before NSG commandos arrived—10 hours after the attack. Since the commandos from Delhi had no knowledge of the narrow lanes of this highly congested part of Colaba, Shiv Sainiks assisted them in every possible way. The Sena has the image of being an anti-Muslim organisation. But this stereotype was broken by what I saw at the function and, later, by conducting three days of extensive interviews in the neighbourhood. Surve proudly showed me the letter he received from the NSG, in which the commander who led the operation has expressed “deepest gratitude” to the locals for their help.

On 26/12, Surve honoured all those who performed commendable acts of bravery during the 60-hour-long siege of Nariman House, the most difficult of all the operations mounted by security forces in Mumbai. One person, Felix Ambrose, received a particularly long ovation. Felix lives near Nariman House and works at a small phone-and-internet shop next to Leopold Restaurant, where terrorists killed over a dozen people, before storming the Taj. He was lucky to survive. But that night he made eight trips to the hospital carrying wounded persons lying on the road. The first was Anamika Gupta, who, when I met her in the hospital, said to me, “I am alive only because of my brother Felix.”

Surve reserved a special hug for a popular Muslim boy: Hanif Shaikh. Amid deafening applause from the crowd, he said: “I have no words to describe Hanif’s bravery. On the second day we learnt that there were still some families holed up in Merchant House, which adjoins Nariman House. Hanif immediately climbed the separation wall, took a deep jump, entered that building and helped four Sindhi and Gujarati families to safely sneak away. He could have been easily seen, and shot, by the terrorists. I told him to take a commando with him, but he said he would go alone. What can I say? Hanif had himself become a commando!”

Surve then yelled into the mike, “Hanif, tujh par hamein fakr hai. Aur Pakistan waalon, yahan aakar dekho. Yahi hai Hindustan. Yahi hai Mumbai. Yahi hai Colaba. Yahan Hindu, Musalman, Sikh, Isayi aur Parsi sab ek hain, and sab terrorism ke khilaaf ekjut hokar lad rahe hain.” (Hanif, we are proud of you. And you Pakistanis, come here and see. This is India. This is Mumbai. This is Colaba. Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Parsis are all one here and all are united in the struggle against terrorism.)

Among the people attending the function, I was surprised to meet Maulana Mohammed Niyaz of the nearby Colaba Masjid. He also runs Darul Uloom Hanfia Razvia, a madrassa that has 175 students. “What brings you to this meeting organised by the Shiv Sena?” He replied unflappably: “We share the grief of all the people who have gathered here. We are all Indians, irrespective of our religions. I pray to Allah that He does hifazat of Hindustan. Anyone who looks at Hindustan with an evil eye, even if it is Pakistan, has to have that eye taken out.” I met him later in his masjid to continue the conversation. “Those were terrible days for us,” he said. “We were afraid that some extremists might harm Muslims, who are only 10 per cent of Colaba’s population. But Vijaybhai, whom I know for many years, assured me on the first night that he would ensure the safety of the mosque and the madrassa. He not only kept his word, but also sent food to the inmates for three days. On the third day, Shiv Sainiks helped us shift the madrassa students to a safe place. I later wrote a letter of thanks to Vijaybhai. In these matters, I don’t see party labels. If someone has done good work, it must be appreciated. If all parties just shun their petty politics and serve the nation, India will become a superpower.”



So much for "no such hindus "

 

[RobbieS]

Heroes of Nariman House

How about using the first column of 2009 to write about an experience that will spread hope, happiness and good thoughts?

I spent the last 10 days of December in Mumbai, and participated in two events associated with the terror attacks of 26/11. The first was on December 21, when the Taj Mahal Hotel reopened its tower wing. The solemnity of the ceremony was made more memorable by Ratan Tata’s defiant words: “The enemies of India may have hurt us, but they will never knock us down.” The longest applause, of course, was reserved for the hotel employees who showed exemplary courage and dedication to duty even when death stared them in their faces. They were led by general manager Karanbir Kang, whose name has already joined the many legends of the Taj. He was busy saving guests on the ground floor, even as his own wife and two children were trapped in fire—and later found dead—in their top-floor room.

Another place, many more legends. On December 26, I attended a commemorative function near Nariman House, also in Colaba. The world watched a never-seen-before commando operation here against Pakistani terrorists, who had stormed a Jewish prayer centre, killing six inmates, one commando, Gajendra Singh, and four locals in the vicinity. Two images will remain etched in the minds of TV viewers: National Security Guard’s black-cat commandos being abseiled from a helicopter on the terrace of Nariman House; and hundreds of local residents shouting ‘Vande Mataram’ and ‘Bharat Mata ki jai’ on the morning of November 29, as they bade a heartfelt goodbye to the commandos after they successfully completed the operation.

But how many people know that this is where local Muslims rescued Hindu families in neighbouring buildings; where Shiv Sena activists saved Christian families and gave protection to a nearby mosque and a madarassa; where a Parsi baker—his bakery, located bang opposite Nariman House, still carries scores of bullet marks from the terrorists’ AK-47s—distributed bread to hungry neighbours; and where a Christian do-gooder carried the bullet-ridden body of a Hindu girl on his shoulders, reached her to the hospital and a month later, on Christmas, played Santa to her in the hospital ward?

The function near Nariman House was organised by Vijay Surve, head of the Shiv Sena’s Colaba branch. He and his ‘boys’ evacuated hundreds of residents of the nearby buildings before NSG commandos arrived—10 hours after the attack. Since the commandos from Delhi had no knowledge of the narrow lanes of this highly congested part of Colaba, Shiv Sainiks assisted them in every possible way. The Sena has the image of being an anti-Muslim organisation. But this stereotype was broken by what I saw at the function and, later, by conducting three days of extensive interviews in the neighbourhood. Surve proudly showed me the letter he received from the NSG, in which the commander who led the operation has expressed “deepest gratitude” to the locals for their help.

On 26/12, Surve honoured all those who performed commendable acts of bravery during the 60-hour-long siege of Nariman House, the most difficult of all the operations mounted by security forces in Mumbai. One person, Felix Ambrose, received a particularly long ovation. Felix lives near Nariman House and works at a small phone-and-internet shop next to Leopold Restaurant, where terrorists killed over a dozen people, before storming the Taj. He was lucky to survive. But that night he made eight trips to the hospital carrying wounded persons lying on the road. The first was Anamika Gupta, who, when I met her in the hospital, said to me, “I am alive only because of my brother Felix.”

Surve reserved a special hug for a popular Muslim boy: Hanif Shaikh. Amid deafening applause from the crowd, he said: “I have no words to describe Hanif’s bravery. On the second day we learnt that there were still some families holed up in Merchant House, which adjoins Nariman House. Hanif immediately climbed the separation wall, took a deep jump, entered that building and helped four Sindhi and Gujarati families to safely sneak away. He could have been easily seen, and shot, by the terrorists. I told him to take a commando with him, but he said he would go alone. What can I say? Hanif had himself become a commando!”

Surve then yelled into the mike, “Hanif, tujh par hamein fakr hai. Aur Pakistan waalon, yahan aakar dekho. Yahi hai Hindustan. Yahi hai Mumbai. Yahi hai Colaba. Yahan Hindu, Musalman, Sikh, Isayi aur Parsi sab ek hain, and sab terrorism ke khilaaf ekjut hokar lad rahe hain.” (Hanif, we are proud of you. And you Pakistanis, come here and see. This is India. This is Mumbai. This is Colaba. Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Parsis are all one here and all are united in the struggle against terrorism.)

Among the people attending the function, I was surprised to meet Maulana Mohammed Niyaz of the nearby Colaba Masjid. He also runs Darul Uloom Hanfia Razvia, a madrassa that has 175 students. “What brings you to this meeting organised by the Shiv Sena?” He replied unflappably: “We share the grief of all the people who have gathered here. We are all Indians, irrespective of our religions. I pray to Allah that He does hifazat of Hindustan. Anyone who looks at Hindustan with an evil eye, even if it is Pakistan, has to have that eye taken out.” I met him later in his masjid to continue the conversation. “Those were terrible days for us,” he said. “We were afraid that some extremists might harm Muslims, who are only 10 per cent of Colaba’s population. But Vijaybhai, whom I know for many years, assured me on the first night that he would ensure the safety of the mosque and the madrassa. He not only kept his word, but also sent food to the inmates for three days. On the third day, Shiv Sainiks helped us shift the madrassa students to a safe place. I later wrote a letter of thanks to Vijaybhai. In these matters, I don’t see party labels. If someone has done good work, it must be appreciated. If all parties just shun their petty politics and serve the nation, India will become a superpower.”



So much for "no such hindus "

If only Pakistani members on this forum could have seen it. It would have cleared a lot of popular misconceptions!

 

[BATMAN]

I have former Hindu friends who converted to Islam and Christianity

Muslims believes in Christianity and other religons as religon from same one god this is why there is no point in converting to Chrisitanity.
A muslim would never flush holy bible down the toilets as it is usually done in american jails and temporary confinments. A muslim would not rape christian or hindu women just becuase she is christian or hindu.
In india burning copies of Quran in streets is cheered by masses but it does not happens in any other Muslim country!
In india taking the babies out of the womb of pregnant women by holy wepons is a rewarding act.. you will never see it in any Muslim country...
I say other religons are fanatics as compare to what Islam offers.

 

[Iggy]

Muslims believes in Christianity and other religons as religon from same one god this is why there is no point in converting to Chrisitanity.
A muslim would never flush holy bible down the toilets as it is usually done in american jails and temporary confinments. A muslim would not rape christian or hindu women just becuase she is christian or hindu.
In india burning copies of Quran in streets is cheered by masses but it does not happens in any other Muslim country!
I say other religons are fanatics as compare to what Islam offers.

Sir dont say like that..My mom and dad lived in Saudi Arabia and she told us that when arrived at the Airport she had a cross in her bag and the guy searched her bag destroyed it immediately.It was given to her from a church .what is this said to you??