On India's Shopping List, 500 Choppers, 220 Fighter Jets, 12 Submarines

[zebra7]

ohh common sir i was just giving my views i might be right or i might be wrong but one thing is sure both F16s and rafales are coming

Actually its the time you spend when you was banned from the PDF in the Indian Defence Forum, now have changed your heart toward the F-16 Teen. Guru Bhai you have Changed, and brother we have the Difference and that due to the American Gori MEM.

Shiet we can't even get 8 F-sola's.

Don't worry you have J-10 B/C, J-11, J7HB, J-31, J-20, TFX, and Old F-16 from Jordan and Mirrage 2000 from UAE where PAF is interested.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Actually its the time you spend when you was banned from the PDF in the Indian Defence Forum, now have changed your heart toward the F-16 Teen. Guru Bhai you have Changed, and brother we have the Difference and that due to the American Gori MEM.

well bro i seldom go there ask its admin i last visited that site almost 5 months back

but thing is i have a very close friend who is known to such things who told me that personally i want the best cutting edge tech for IAF or any other branch of indian armed forces but that does not matter what matters is how and what IAF and MOD decide over it

the last aef sollah they rejected was due to political issue more and that orignal MRCA was a twin engine requirement as standard as IAF from day one wanted a fighter like rafale as it had great passive and active detection and elctronic warfare capabilities which USA dint offerred to us then but now they are and those techs are almost half the rates as french are asking you tell me what will you do when you know the latest tech offered on Blk70/72 is same if not better than the rafale selected by us and ta almost 25-40% lesser rates plus the fact F16 has a very impressive combat range and load carrying capacity

 

[zebra7]

well bro i seldom go there ask its admin i last visited that site almost 5 months back

but thing is i have a very close friend who is known to such things who told me that personally i want the best cutting edge tech for IAF or any other branch of indian armed forces but that does not matter what matters is how and what IAF and MOD decide over it

the last aef sollah they rejected was due to political issue more and that orignal MRCA was a twin engine requirement as standard as IAF from day one wanted a fighter like rafale as it had great passive and active detection and elctronic warfare capabilities which USA dint offerred to us then but now they are and those techs are almost half the rates as french are asking you tell me what will you do when you know the latest tech offered on Blk70/72 is same if not better than the rafale selected by us and ta almost 25-40% lesser rates plus the fact F16 has a very impressive combat range and load carrying capacity

What you fail to understand is that F-16 is ending its days, and their will be not any major upgrade of the F-16 in future, and IAF need the new MRCA for the next 40 years, for which Rafale, which is relatively new, and will get alteast 2 major upgrades in future.

Second point is that, whether French, U.S, or Russia nobody is going to give any of their cutting edge tech. to India such as Radars, Seekers and engines -- and we have to develop it in house. Only country that could help us in this domain is Israel, because it is already very experience in the real war experience, but don't have a market in their own country. That's why India is putting so many of its egg in the israeli basket.

If you compare the F-16 Block 70/72 with the Rafale then 2 points

1. There is not a single F-16 block 70/72 and the bird that took part in the MMRCA competition was the UAE block 60/62.

2. These block upgrades are added to make the F-16 compatible in the present modern situation aka Gen 4.5, but still it lags various things if you compare it with the 4.5 Gen bird like Rafale F3R e.g with CFT and heavy weapon load, this plane will only become a non agile bomb truck, nothing more, and when we already have MKI, so where is the need for another bomb truck. Second Rafale F3R is a 5th Gen capable fighter plane, but Block 70/72 is not and even if you would add the avionics of the 5th Gen to the F-16 Block 70/72, then the cost would be equal to the Rafale, and it won't fit indian Infrastucture, because the U.S will demands the U.S Radars, communications, U.S Satellite, Weapons, Links, which will overshoot the cost even several times more than the rafale itself.

As you can see, India will be going on their own Air Battle management system, and its own Network, rather than becoming another NATO nation, so in the context of India, Rafale is cheaper than the F-16 block 70/72.

very very ambitious list. I was just wondering how much tons of Basmati india have to export to exchange for those expensive toys? why don't modiji care about you people's belley first?

多吃一些州城分鐘，並採取了一些睡眠白痴

滾出這裡假舉報者的

 

[GURU DUTT]

What you fail to understand is that F-16 is ending its days, and their will be not any major upgrade of the F-16 in future, and IAF need the new MRCA for the next 40 years, for which Rafale, which is relatively new, and will get alteast 2 major upgrades in future.

Second point is that, whether French, U.S, or Russia nobody is going to give any of their cutting edge tech. to India such as Radars, Seekers and engines -- and we have to develop it in house. Only country that could help us in this domain is Israel, because it is already very experience in the real war experience, but don't have a market in their own country. That's why India is putting so many of its egg in the israeli basket.

If you compare the F-16 Block 70/72 with the Rafale then 2 points

1. There is not a single F-16 block 70/72 and the bird that took part in the MMRCA competition was the UAE block 60/62.

2. These block upgrades are added to make the F-16 compatible in the present modern situation aka Gen 4.5, but still it lags various things if you compare it with the 4.5 Gen bird like Rafale F3R e.g with CFT and heavy weapon load, this plane will only become a non agile bomb truck, nothing more, and when we already have MKI, so where is the need for another bomb truck. Second Rafale F3R is a 5th Gen capable fighter plane, but Block 70/72 is not and even if you would add the avionics of the 5th Gen to the F-16 Block 70/72, then the cost would be equal to the Rafale, and it won't fit indian Infrastucture, because the U.S will demands the U.S Radars, communications, U.S Satellite, Weapons, Links, which will overshoot the cost even several times more than the rafale itself.

As you can see, India will be going on their own Air Battle management system, and its own Network, rather than becoming another NATO nation, so in the context of India, Rafale is cheaper than the F-16 block 70/72.



多吃一些州城分鐘，並採取了一些睡眠白痴

滾出這裡假舉報者的

biraderr azeez thing is there is hell lot of diffrence between Blk60/62 and Blk70/72 the former had 1st gen AESA radar and other avionicks while former has 3rd gen AESAbased radar and minutrised and combined electronick warfare suite which are better than what are on rafale that is coming to india now as for weapons also amreican air to air and air to ground weapons are not only cheaper but more leathel than there french counterparts

now you are right that neither american nor french or russians will give us there cutting edge tech i too had been saying all along this so called TOT is just a fance name for paint and screw driver job

but here is the catch like when french were moving from M2K to rafale they offerred us complete actual tranfer of tech which we refused now since americans are moving from F16 to F35 they are offering us the same

no dought in next 5 years it will be 5th gen all the way but even as it is the latest Blk70/72 will remain cutting edge for at least a decade if not more and only americans have the capability to supply fully mode or kits of 50+ fighters in a single callender year and our basic requirement is cutting edge leathel tech and time bound diliverry at reasonable rates plus the tech & manufacturing skills we get from LM no other aircraft manufacturer would give us certainlly not the french so i guess Blk70/72 is a good deal as it comes with all the bells and whistels as that on rafale and more plus its much cheaper to buy and oparate than rafale

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Highly disappointing figure.

Either spend like the 3rd largest armed forces

Or keep a armed force which can run on 20billion USD a year.

And also employ a sane Defence minister who knows to " WORK".

 

[zebra7]

biraderr azeez thing is there is hell lot of diffrence between Blk60/62 and Blk70/72 the former had 1st gen AESA radar and other avionicks while former has 3rd gen AESAbased radar and minutrised and combined electronick warfare suite which are better than what are on rafale that is coming to india now as for weapons also amreican air to air and air to ground weapons are not only cheaper but more leathel than there french counterparts

now you are right that neither american nor french or russians will give us there cutting edge tech i too had been saying all along this so called TOT is just a fance name for paint and screw driver job

but here is the catch like when french were moving from M2K to rafale they offerred us complete actual tranfer of tech which we refused now since americans are moving from F16 to F35 they are offering us the same

no dought in next 5 years it will be 5th gen all the way but even as it is the latest Blk70/72 will remain cutting edge for at least a decade if not more and only americans have the capability to supply fully mode or kits of 50+ fighters in a single callender year and our basic requirement is cutting edge leathel tech and time bound diliverry at reasonable rates plus the tech & manufacturing skills we get from LM no other aircraft manufacturer would give us certainlly not the french so i guess Blk70/72 is a good deal as it comes with all the bells and whistels as that on rafale and more plus its much cheaper to buy and oparate than rafale

Listen Birader Azim Come to the reality.

1. No one in India is seeking F-16 Block xx/yy in India, niether IAF nor INAF.
2. Rafale F3R have been choosen, and if we stick to the plan, then the total requirement for IAF is 189.
3. The only new fighter plane which is coming to IAF is LMCA LCA Tejas.
4. To keep up with the retiring number of IAF planes, the interim solutions are Mig 29, Mirrage 2000 H upgradation and all 126 and not 60 jaguar upgradation should be done to Darin -3 upgrade with engine F-125.
5. BAE/HAL BAE Combat Hawk is an excellent project, and should be explored, whether they could be used for CAS during wartime, and trainer at peace time. Infact LCA Trainer is the better alternative if it could be ready in time.
6. There is no need for MK-2 for IAF, since originally its the Naval variant for carrier operations.

Coming to your points

1. When their is no Block 70/72 F-16, talking about its radar and features are funny.
2. Declaring U.S weapons as more lethal than French is also funny, because U.S is not goona give us the real Amraam AIM 120C-7 rather its export variants, and those export variants are inferior to what the USAAF uses in the Serbian Wars and during Gulf wars. And you are stuck with the Block -- Tell me do you really think that the USAF F-16 A/B are inferior to the Block 40 or Block 52 in the hands of USAF. In reality IAF loves MICA IR/RF and have the reputation of highly lethal even in the high EW environment and have the commonality with the Mirage 2000 H/UPG and other french weapons.
3. Do you want a plane (F-16/F-18) in the IAF, which could be inspected even at 2 A.M any time, any day 365 days a years for the OEM inspection and the system, which might have a bug in its so called 3rd Gen AESA radar giving out its locations and the flight logs and data to the U.S Satellite -- Well this is a small thing for a country who don't shy away to tap all the phones calls of our P.M and other political leaders.
4, If you like U.S AESA so much, do you think LM could give its tech to India, which even it don't have because its a product of Rayethon, and have you thought of buying APG AESA rather than the plane itself.
5. If hardware is the only thing that makes the history, then the outcome of the Sabre vs the Sabre Slayer would have been different. or the outcome of the kargil would be different, because our soldier was with the flawed riffle INSAS. Actually its the will, and the implementation of the assets that makes the difference.
6. After rejecting the teen F-16 during MMRCA, it would be difficult for the IAF to justify its requirement.
7. For F-18, it is only possible, if IAF goes for the Rafale replacement, and since it is not going on, so let this speculation and dream to be given Deep Sleep for a While and Yes even for the Fannism of the Gripen and the Drumstick LSA groups too.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Listen Birader Azim Come to the reality.

1. No one in India is seeking F-16 Block xx/yy in India, niether IAF nor INAF.
2. Rafale F3R have been choosen, and if we stick to the plan, then the total requirement for IAF is 189.
3. The only new fighter plane which is coming to IAF is LMCA LCA Tejas.
4. To keep up with the retiring number of IAF planes, the interim solutions are Mig 29, Mirrage 2000 H upgradation and all 126 and not 60 jaguar upgradation should be done to Darin -3 upgrade with engine F-125.
5. BAE/HAL BAE Combat Hawk is an excellent project, and should be explored, whether they could be used for CAS during wartime, and trainer at peace time. Infact LCA Trainer is the better alternative if it could be ready in time.
6. There is no need for MK-2 for IAF, since originally its the Naval variant for carrier operations.

Coming to your points

1. When their is no Block 70/72 F-16, talking about its radar and features are funny.
2. Declaring U.S weapons as more lethal than French is also funny, because U.S is not goona give us the real Amraam AIM 120C-7 rather its export variants, and those export variants are inferior to what the USAAF uses in the Serbian Wars and during Gulf wars. And you are stuck with the Block -- Tell me do you really think that the USAF F-16 A/B are inferior to the Block 40 or Block 52 in the hands of USAF. In reality IAF loves MICA IR/RF and have the reputation of highly lethal even in the high EW environment and have the commonality with the Mirage 2000 H/UPG and other french weapons.
3. Do you want a plane (F-16/F-18) in the IAF, which could be inspected even at 2 A.M any time, any day 365 days a years for the OEM inspection and the system, which might have a bug in its so called 3rd Gen AESA radar giving out its locations and the flight logs and data to the U.S Satellite -- Well this is a small thing for a country who don't shy away to tap all the phones calls of our P.M and other political leaders.
4, If you like U.S AESA so much, do you think LM could give its tech to India, which even it don't have because its a product of Rayethon, and have you thought of buying APG AESA rather than the plane itself.
5. If hardware is the only thing that makes the history, then the outcome of the Sabre vs the Sabre Slayer would have been different. or the outcome of the kargil would be different, because our soldier was with the flawed riffle INSAS. Actually its the will, and the implementation of the assets that makes the difference.
6. After rejecting the teen F-16 during MMRCA, it would be difficult for the IAF to justify its requirement.
7. For F-18, it is only possible, if IAF goes for the Rafale replacement, and since it is not going on, so let this speculation and dream to be given Deep Sleep for a While and Yes even for the Fannism of the Gripen and the Drumstick LSA groups too.

in short we are paying the price for not working hard and smart when we should have ... had we did the same exercise when we dint get a suitable engine for marut we would be in postion where france is now but thats just wish full thinking

coming back to facts today we have two hostile neighbours with neuces and latest fighter jets and we dont have the tech required do defend ourselfs hence we have to buy it weather we like it or not but the fac is there is nothing like rafale out there but french are getting too greedy so what according to you should be the next best choice ... as they say hope for the best but prepair for the worst

 

[zebra7]

in short we are paying the price for not working hard and smart when we should have ... had we did the same exercise when we dint get a suitable engine for marut we would be in postion where france is now but thats just wish full thinking

coming back to facts today we have two hostile neighbours with neuces and latest fighter jets and we dont have the tech required do defend ourselfs hence we have to buy it weather we like it or not but the fac is there is nothing like rafale out there but french are getting too greedy so what according to you should be the next best choice ... as they say hope for the best but prepair for the worst

One on the west don't have the assets to do that, and the one in the east is still busy with a dozen nations on some rubbish imaginary 9 dash lines.

 

[GURU DUTT]

One on the west don't have the assets to do that, and the one in the east is still busy with a dozen nations on some rubbish imaginary 9 dash lines.

but the problem is both of them want to finish off what is we call owr motherland on the west wants it so for ego while the one on east as he is unable to get what it wanted even though both of them means in doing so almost 40% of worlds current population might vanish

but back on topic thing is french now think they cannot agree to our terms and are asking almost 30% more than the reasonable price of products we need and americans are ready to give us those products at reasonable price what to do and what no to ... bari mushkil hai khoya mera dil hai

 

[zebra7]

but the problem is both of them want to finish off what is we call owr motherland on the west wants it so for ego while the one on east as he is unable to get what it wanted even though both of them means in doing so almost 40% of worlds current population might vanish

but back on topic thing is french now think they cannot agree to our terms and are asking almost 30% more than the reasonable price of products we need and americans are ready to give us those products at reasonable price what to do and what no to ... bari mushkil hai khoya mera dil hai

Problem is that the one on the west is pissing not only India, but also other neighbouring nations like Afghanistan, Iran, and soon their will be an international operation headed by offcorse U.S.A, and LEMOA is such a small link for the providing the fuel, and the base for them for the confiscation of the Nukes.

And for the West, did you fail to see the preperation like deploying 3 tank regiment of T-72 and raising 3 Brigade of Mountaenous forces, M777, Chinook, Apache, ALG and deploying MKI and Brohmos, and Spyder SAM to makes the defense strong. For them, India only have to wait, till a Party looses it power aka People Republic of China, which is rulling a country called China gaurded by his bodygaurd force called PLA.

 

[punit]

ohh common sir i was just giving my views i might be right or i might be wrong but one thing is sure both F16s and rafales are coming

NOTHING IS COMING .. !!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Problem is that the one on the west is pissing not only India, but also other neighbouring nations like Afghanistan, Iran, and soon their will be an international operation headed by offcorse U.S.A, and LEMOA is such a small link for the providing the fuel, and the base for them for the confiscation of the Nukes.

And for the West, did you fail to see the preperation like deploying 3 tank regiment of T-72 and raising 3 Brigade of Mountaenous forces, M777, Chinook, Apache, ALG and deploying MKI and Brohmos, and Spyder SAM to makes the defense strong. For them, India only have to wait, till a Party looses it power aka People Republic of China, which is rulling a country called China gaurded by his bodygaurd force called PLA.

thats right but we cant get soft we have to keep bolsterring owr economy & sharpenning owr leathel militarry skills to a level where either two of them tries to get smart cause the one on the east is always trying to play smart cat between the two fighting hens and will waste no time or effort to kill and grab both but before that he will entice the one on the west to start it and when we are weak it will attack so we have to have enof to take on both of them at the same time and have reserves also for a long and sutained fight hence we need US support and instead of playing good boy like what nehru did in 1950s and 1960s we need to be shrewed and ruthless and take initiative to make sure the one on east dose not do what it could in 1962

 

[zebra7]

thats right but we cant get soft we have to keep bolsterring owr economy & sharpenning owr leathel militarry skills to a level where either two of them tries to get smart cause the one on the east is always trying to play smart cat between the two fighting hens and will waste no time or effort to kill and grab both but before that he will entice the one on the west to start it and when we are weak it will attack so we have to have enof to take on both of them at the same time and have reserves also for a long and sutained fight hence we need US support and instead of playing good boy like what nehru did in 1950s and 1960s we need to be shrewed and ruthless and take initiative to make sure the one on east dose not do what it could in 1962

World is moving, and everything is going on behind the Scene. Good days for the Terrorist heavens and support are over now, and slowly and steadily, the world would realized that in reality, the real war would be against the terrorists,and terrorism is the global problem, and have to ended irrespective of the location.

India is not the country, what it was in 50s or 60s and the world knows very well. Don't worry, the days of the War is over, what remains is the short, hight intensity, clash to fulfill the objective. You are too much undermining the Indians forces and painting too much Chinese high. Chinese ALG are far away from the borders, and they are very much vunerable and it lacks planes, tankers in the heights of the Tibets.

 

[GURU DUTT]

World is moving, and everything is going on behind the Scene. Good days for the Terrorist heavens and support are over now, and slowly and steadily, the world would realized that in reality, the real war would be against the terrorists,and terrorism is the global problem, and have to ended irrespective of the location.

India is not the country, what it was in 50s or 60s and the world knows very well. Don't worry, the days of the War is over, what remains is the short, hight intensity, clash to fulfill the objective. You are too much undermining the Indians forces and painting too much Chinese high. Chinese ALG are far away from the borders, and they are very much vunerable and it lacks planes, tankers in the heights of the Tibets.

in short every thing will keep changing but what is constant is WAR and China wants WAR and for that its taking pange with every one including USA and all its neigbours on the east so we have to tie up with all those neigbours and US in militarry and strategic pacts to help each other whenever China attacks either and that is the only way to keep the ever agressive dragon tied up in its den or it will create havoc the first chance it gets

as for the one on the west we shoild keep doing what we are doing with it cause that is the only language it understands ... nuff said

 

[zebra7]

in short every thing will keep changing but what is constant is WAR and China wants WAR and for that its taking pange with every one including USA and all its neigbours on the east so we have to tie up with all those neigbours and US in militarry and strategic pacts to help each other whenever China attacks either and that is the only way to keep the ever agressive dragon tied up in its den or it will create havoc the first chance it gets

as for the one on the west we shoild keep doing what we are doing with it cause that is the only language it understands ... nuff said

Guru bhai Don't have so much time to explain you everything. Here is a short answer -- Pls see what China is doing, under what condition. It is facing the most powerful nation aka USA and Japan, austalia, and almost all the south asian countries, so its better to spread the propaganda of Chinese supermacy of the weapons and technology, and in background gatter anything any tech by hooks and crooks method, and make the big machinery, to deter the enemy to atleast give them a big blow, to their economy, which will deter them to invade the Chinese mainland. Russia on the other hand playing its own cards. Supporting Pakistan is also a part of his gameplan, nothing deeper than ocean and highter than sky stuff. Right.

China have a big problem, that it has so much long boundries with so many countries, and that includes India also. To keep India busy on the western front, china wants its western border to get secure, and concentrate on its eastern border, where the tactics is to create the ADA Area of Deniel tactics, that's why 9 dash line bullshit.

Now no sane country in this modern world would like to go to the war, and the real was is the economic war, where India is getting its momentum. It is estimated that around 10 Trillion dollor of money are in the global market, which is searching to gets invested somewhere, and PM Modi is doing the right things, trying to get max out of its share. For dealing the China, what India have to do is to create the industrial alternative of the China in India, rest PRC would be the history.

And for the Pakistan -- Its army would be too busy with their internal war for 1-2 decades, and its airforce can only face IAF for just one week and max 10 days.