On Everything Nuclear, Pakistan Been Far Cleverer Than India

[ShoutB]

Environmental and Nuclear eng do have interconnection ( mainly in nuclear safety ). have u seen his area of research ? more than 70 percent faculty members hold PHD .

faculty members need to have Phd otherwise they cannot be a professor.

 

[untitled]

You are absolutely correct, but it is not the only meaning (the chess one). It is a sacrificing move in the early stages. So the expansion in its meaning; it has come to mean a similar situation in other areas other than chess. In its larger sense, it is used as an alternative for tactical move, typically in the opening phases.

If you are interested in chess, there are some beautiful examples; please let me know if you are. Remember that our Head of the Think Tank is SlavDefence! The name speaks for itself and his knowledge of chess.

Have not played chess in ages. I think my last game was against a computer at beginners level (which I won). I learned the meanings of gambit and slav defence after joining PDF. I still don't know how to use the en passant move.

 

[Syed Asif Bukhari]

faculty members need to have Phd otherwise they cannot be a professor.

now this is the new thing I have ever heard . Faculty only does not consist of Professors and PHD scholars . Assistant Professors are also there having MS and BS . I am damn sure all MS scholars in PIEAS are doing PHD . Because Teachers teach , research and study side by side in every modern universities . I have seen many assistant in my university who are teaching and doing their PHD at same time . wonder u have done double bsc but don't know about this basic thing .

 

[ShoutB]

now this is the new thing I have ever heard . Faculty only does not consist of Professors and PHD scholars . Assistant Professors are also there having MS and BS . I am damn sure all MS scholars in PIEAS are doing PHD . Because Teachers teach , research and study side by side in every modern universities . I have seen many assistant in my university who are teaching and doing their PHD at same time . wonder u have done double bsc but don't know about this basic thing .

That's departmental but to be a professor you need to have min. PhD or Post Doc..
Otherwise you are asst professor.

 

[ShoutB]

what am I trying to say sir ?

but in India if you talk about being professor in good uni .. even after Post Doc from texas a&m nd oak ridge you end up being an asst prof.
This is why I said .. min requirement is PhD. As per criteria in India's top institutes.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

@Oscar can you please keep a check on this non sensical bull cr@p from cross the border with no facts and figures but bn-k-ks just ranting out their dirrea here 8C they made this forum similar to "bharat rat sh!t". Sorry sir it is not the one please address.

 

[Syed Asif Bukhari]

but in India if you talk about being professor in good uni .. even after Post Doc you end up being an asst prof.
This is why I said .. min requirement is PhD. As per criteria in India's top institutes.

same is here sir . I think u have not read my post no 55 completely . the teachers u have seen on PIEAS web having MS are assistant professors not professor. cheers

 

[xyxmt]

We also lack in Jihadi Suicide bombing technology and thats your sole patent contribution to this world.

no sir that too is stolen tech from India, India started this in Sri Lanka, creating Chaos and back stabbing also invented by India in 1971....so you are a pillar of modern civilization.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As usual when we ask them to prove their claims they start jumping here there .
.
.
Earth is flat . believe me because i said so ...... ( indian mentality )
Yeah ok move to the corner and jump .. (how much pak cares)

So why don't you stick to their claims, instead of raising red herrings? that doesn't say much about your confidence in breaking down their arguments and demolishing them.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar can you please keep a check on this non sensical bull cr@p from cross the border with no facts and figures but bn-k-ks just ranting out their dirrea here 8C they made this forum similar to "bharat rat sh!t". Sorry sir it is not the one please address.

Did you report them?
Did the other's ignore them?
If they did not, then they should not complain.

Cynical pithy call centre operators claiming education degrees is one thing, the gullible fools on our side engaging them is another.

I skimmed through the Kings College report.. How completely up to date and well referenced in its conclusions
http://kcl-digi-prod-wa-wordp-ne-04.../2016/11/20160929-Pakistan-public-version.pdf

@The Deterrent @Dazzler @Slav Defence @JamD Skim through this and see how it actually talks VERY LITTLE of what Pakistan bought that somehow quantifies their supposed Chinese relationship (as if China does not manufacture half of the world's electronics by now anyway) and spends more time talking about the various institutes and so on.

But it helps the cynical Q'tiyas from the other side and they use it like a box of tissue paper and moisturising lotion.

 

[JamD]

Did you report them?
Did the other's ignore them?
If they did not, then they should not complain.

Cynical pithy call centre operators claiming education degrees is one thing, the gullible fools on our side engaging them is another.

I skimmed through the Kings College report.. How completely up to date and well referenced in its conclusions
http://kcl-digi-prod-wa-wordp-ne-04.../2016/11/20160929-Pakistan-public-version.pdf

@The Deterrent @Dazzler @Slav Defence @JamD Skim through this and see how it actually talks VERY LITTLE of what Pakistan bought that somehow quantifies their supposed Chinese relationship (as if China does not manufacture half of the world's electronics by now anyway) and spends more time talking about the various institutes and so on.

But it helps the cynical Q'tiyas from the other side and they use it like a box of tissue paper and moisturising lotion.

The content is just a listing of facilities. All the "proliferation" is about electronics and machine tools. I mean come on. Most of these things are imported because it is cheaper to import them than to produce them locally. I remember I was told by one of my professors (KRL guy) that we had a ring laser gyro program at one point to which I had asked why don't we see them. He replied the Chinese equivalent was cheaper and readily available it made no sense to produce an expensive local product which won't achieve economy of scale.

 

[Thorough Pro]

LOL..........an article by an indian on Pakistani nuclear program, it sure is as believable as an Indian's claim of being a Caucasian

Writer is a shamelessly dishonest person, he conveniently forgot to mention Indian nuclear test of 1974, 24 years before the nuclear tests of 1998 and claims that Pakistan was already a nuclear weapons state before india in 1998. What a retard!

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/india-has-the-chance-to-expose-pak-chinas-dark-nuclear-secrets-1623880

View attachment 351059


It is well known that unlike India, China became a nuclear weapon state well before the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty (NPT) came into force in March 1970.

As such, in the NPT, China was recognized as a nuclear weapon state and India was put in the category of non-weapon states, which could not acquire or posses nuclear weapons ever in the future. Unfortunately, China has not shown any respect for the obligations and responsibilities which came with its status as a nuclear weapon state. It found a clandestine way to escape these conditionalities and continued to violate them with impunity. It wanted to help its two close friends, Pakistan and North Korea, in the area of nuclear and missile technology. So it worked out a neat and convenient arrangement with them under which it agreed to supply nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan and missile technology to North Korea. Pakistan and North Korea were then supposed to exchange these technologies and arm themselves with both nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver them at the desired destination. The world soon came to know about this clandestine trade, but turned a blind eye to it with consequences, which are there for all to see today.

When India went for its nuclear tests in May 1998, Pakistan was already a nuclear weapons state. The tests enabled India to only establish strategic parity with Pakistan in the area of nuclear weapons, not to overtake it. The Pakistani nuclear tests of 1998 were a sham only to enable it to come out of the closet. While the Indian nuclear development programme has all along been an entirely indigenous programme developed by Indian scientists with very little help from elsewhere, the Pakistani nuclear programme has been based entirely on charity by China and the theft of nuclear technology and equipment from other sources, AQ Khan notwithstanding. No wonder, therefore, that India has always been regarded as a responsible nuclear state and Pakistan as an irresponsible violator of all norms. It is a pity therefore that China is playing into the hands of Pakistan and opposing India's entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group. It is even more surprising that imitating India as it always does, Pakistan has also become a candidate for the membership of the NSG, and India has found it fit to say that it has no objection if Pakistan is also admitted as a member.

India entered into binding commitments, even compromising on its sovereignty, when it entered into the nuclear deal with the US. When the deal was being negotiated, we were told that India would be able to get from the US and other countries sensitive and sophisticated technologies specially in the area of enrichment and reprocessing of spent fuel. India had even agreed to set up a separate reprocessing facility to ensure that the civilian nuclear programme was kept completely away from its weapons programme. It also agreed to place this new facility under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The US has already gone back on this commitment and ensured that no other country also would be able to supply such technologies to India by encouraging the NSG to impose a ban on the transfer of such technology to non-NPT states in 2011. India has not only kept, quiet but has also gone ahead with the implementation of this flawed and now broken deal.

And what has Pakistan done?


It has quietly entered into arrangements with China under which it gets what India gets under the nuclear deal with America and more, but without any of the conditionalities which cripple us under the US deal. Obviously, once again Pakistan has been cleverer than us. According to informed reports, it has more nuclear bombs than India and unlike us, no commitment of no-first-use. Despite the NPT of which China is a signatory, Pakistan continues to get nuclear technology and equipment from it and despite the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). it continues to get missile technology from Beijing and North Korea.

King's College of London has now come out with a startling report which damns both China and Pakistan fully and completely. The Centre for Science and Security Studies at King's College undertook a project called Project Alpha. This project was established in 2011 with funding from the British Government to counter illicit nuclear proliferation-related trade.

Extracts from the report, which have been published by the Hindustan Times, and generally ignored by the other newspapers, clearly establish the nexus which exists between China and Pakistan as far as illegal trade in nuclear materials, equipment and technologies is concerned. According to this report, Pakistan maintains a network of at least 20 trading companies in mainland China, Hong Kong, Dubai and Singapore and uses them to covertly funnel dual-use goods to its strategic programmes. These companies procure these goods from manufacturers in Europe, US, China and elsewhere and then export them to Pakistan. The report says that the scale of Islamabad's procurement of sensitive material from Beijing is so substantial that it must be concluded that the Chinese state is either complicit in supplying Pakistan's programmes, or negligent in its control over state-owned enterprises. China is the most important supplier of all forms of goods to Pakistan's nuclear and missile programmes. Chinese private firms are big suppliers, so are the state-owned enterprises, and they knowingly supply Pakistan's strategic programmes with sensitive equipment. Pakistan's claim that it is a responsible nuclear state stands completely destroyed by these deceptive and clandestine operations. The report concludes 'Pakistan cannot expect to be welcomed into the NSG when it continues to secretly and systematically undermine NSG members' national export systems through the use of front companies and other deceptive techniques.'

For India, this is a God-sent opportunity to expose both China and Pakistan. It should use this report to the hilt to ensure that Pakistan is never admitted into the NSG and should withdraw its ill-considered advocacy of Pakistan's case.

(Yashwant Sinha is a senior BJP leader and former Union Minister of External Affairs.)

 

[Kinetic]

There is some differences between you get technology and you develop technology. This is the reason Pakistan is not anywhere near to design its own reactor and space launch vehicle.

 

[SQ8]

The content is just a listing of facilities. All the "proliferation" is about electronics and machine tools. I mean come on. Most of these things are imported because it is cheaper to import them than to produce them locally. I remember I was told by one of my professors (KRL guy) that we had a ring laser gyro program at one point to which I had asked why don't we see them. He replied the Chinese equivalent was cheaper and readily available it made no sense to produce an expensive local product which won't achieve economy of scale.

And that is what our dear neighbours and their cynical mindset about us will NEVER understand. Odd, considering that if anyone would understand cost savings it would be them.

 

[My-Analogous]

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/india-has-the-chance-to-expose-pak-chinas-dark-nuclear-secrets-1623880

View attachment 351059


It is well known that unlike India, China became a nuclear weapon state well before the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty (NPT) came into force in March 1970.

As such, in the NPT, China was recognized as a nuclear weapon state and India was put in the category of non-weapon states, which could not acquire or posses nuclear weapons ever in the future. Unfortunately, China has not shown any respect for the obligations and responsibilities which came with its status as a nuclear weapon state. It found a clandestine way to escape these conditionalities and continued to violate them with impunity. It wanted to help its two close friends, Pakistan and North Korea, in the area of nuclear and missile technology. So it worked out a neat and convenient arrangement with them under which it agreed to supply nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan and missile technology to North Korea. Pakistan and North Korea were then supposed to exchange these technologies and arm themselves with both nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver them at the desired destination. The world soon came to know about this clandestine trade, but turned a blind eye to it with consequences, which are there for all to see today.

When India went for its nuclear tests in May 1998, Pakistan was already a nuclear weapons state. The tests enabled India to only establish strategic parity with Pakistan in the area of nuclear weapons, not to overtake it. The Pakistani nuclear tests of 1998 were a sham only to enable it to come out of the closet. While the Indian nuclear development programme has all along been an entirely indigenous programme developed by Indian scientists with very little help from elsewhere, the Pakistani nuclear programme has been based entirely on charity by China and the theft of nuclear technology and equipment from other sources, AQ Khan notwithstanding. No wonder, therefore, that India has always been regarded as a responsible nuclear state and Pakistan as an irresponsible violator of all norms. It is a pity therefore that China is playing into the hands of Pakistan and opposing India's entry into the Nuclear Suppliers Group. It is even more surprising that imitating India as it always does, Pakistan has also become a candidate for the membership of the NSG, and India has found it fit to say that it has no objection if Pakistan is also admitted as a member.

India entered into binding commitments, even compromising on its sovereignty, when it entered into the nuclear deal with the US. When the deal was being negotiated, we were told that India would be able to get from the US and other countries sensitive and sophisticated technologies specially in the area of enrichment and reprocessing of spent fuel. India had even agreed to set up a separate reprocessing facility to ensure that the civilian nuclear programme was kept completely away from its weapons programme. It also agreed to place this new facility under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). The US has already gone back on this commitment and ensured that no other country also would be able to supply such technologies to India by encouraging the NSG to impose a ban on the transfer of such technology to non-NPT states in 2011. India has not only kept, quiet but has also gone ahead with the implementation of this flawed and now broken deal.

And what has Pakistan done?


It has quietly entered into arrangements with China under which it gets what India gets under the nuclear deal with America and more, but without any of the conditionalities which cripple us under the US deal. Obviously, once again Pakistan has been cleverer than us. According to informed reports, it has more nuclear bombs than India and unlike us, no commitment of no-first-use. Despite the NPT of which China is a signatory, Pakistan continues to get nuclear technology and equipment from it and despite the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). it continues to get missile technology from Beijing and North Korea.

King's College of London has now come out with a startling report which damns both China and Pakistan fully and completely. The Centre for Science and Security Studies at King's College undertook a project called Project Alpha. This project was established in 2011 with funding from the British Government to counter illicit nuclear proliferation-related trade.

Extracts from the report, which have been published by the Hindustan Times, and generally ignored by the other newspapers, clearly establish the nexus which exists between China and Pakistan as far as illegal trade in nuclear materials, equipment and technologies is concerned. According to this report, Pakistan maintains a network of at least 20 trading companies in mainland China, Hong Kong, Dubai and Singapore and uses them to covertly funnel dual-use goods to its strategic programmes. These companies procure these goods from manufacturers in Europe, US, China and elsewhere and then export them to Pakistan. The report says that the scale of Islamabad's procurement of sensitive material from Beijing is so substantial that it must be concluded that the Chinese state is either complicit in supplying Pakistan's programmes, or negligent in its control over state-owned enterprises. China is the most important supplier of all forms of goods to Pakistan's nuclear and missile programmes. Chinese private firms are big suppliers, so are the state-owned enterprises, and they knowingly supply Pakistan's strategic programmes with sensitive equipment. Pakistan's claim that it is a responsible nuclear state stands completely destroyed by these deceptive and clandestine operations. The report concludes 'Pakistan cannot expect to be welcomed into the NSG when it continues to secretly and systematically undermine NSG members' national export systems through the use of front companies and other deceptive techniques.'

For India, this is a God-sent opportunity to expose both China and Pakistan. It should use this report to the hilt to ensure that Pakistan is never admitted into the NSG and should withdraw its ill-considered advocacy of Pakistan's case.

(Yashwant Sinha is a senior BJP leader and former Union Minister of External Affairs.)

India should re-written history of NPT as well.