Oliver Hazard Class Frigate Acquisition by Pakistan

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Don't say rip-off without knowing what you're talking about. Most of that money goes towards refitting (i.e. maintenance), spares parts inventory transfer and training. There is virtually no cost for purchase. Considering that a F22P costs $175 million and a modern European frigate like FREMM costs $300-400 million just to build (i.e. prices without ordnance supply, support, training, spares etc), $78 million is not a lot of money at all.

Its a good deal , we are severly short of ships we need ships even ones that are 20 years old , with moderen weapons and missiles they can be converted to something worth using

 

[Aamir Hussain]

well it looks by 2015 to 2020, Pakistan navy will have at least three times bigger surface fleet then the current.


The Pakistan Navy currently operates 6 Amazon Type 21 Class Frigates , one Leander class frigate (training), 3 French Eridan Class mine hunter vessels, 4 Jalalat Class missile boats, including variety of other latest auxiliaries, tankers, missiles and patrol boats


But soon they are gonna be augmented by 4 F-22p Zulfiqar Class (2 already inducted), six Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates, 4 MILGEM corvettes from turkey, 4 Turkish TF-2000 frigates (as claimed), Rumors of four more heavier frigates from china, indicating type 54A possibly, MRTP 15 and eight MRTP 33 fast attack boats from turkey (2 already inducted).


Well that would make Pakistan Navy a respectable sized naval force with definite uplift in the capabilities . Hope things work out the way planned.










Adios

In my opinion, PN is going to retire the Type 21 by 2015 and induct eight Chineses frigates and have four to six more capable western frigates (Two OHP's and rest Turkish platform with joint development/mfg.)

The reason I am saying that: PN never had more than 16 major surface combatants (8 Brooks/Garcia, 2 Leanders, 4 Gearings -- 2 more were transferred to MSA) back in the 80s' when we got full support of US.

Unlikely that more than 14 major surface combatants will be bought.

BTW the OHP we are getting is of the long hulled series (longer by eight feet)

My two bits worth.

 

[Zob]

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Pakistan to pay $78 mn for 30 year old frigate

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will be paying the United States atleast $78 million to acquire a 30 year old Oliver Perry class frigate.

The first 30 year old frigate is expected to sail for Karachi by the end of this year as Pakistan continues to negotiate for acquiring five more Oliver Perry class frigates from the US.

Sources in Pakistan Navy told DawnNews that the 30 year old frigate, USS McInerney, was put on the US Navy’s inactivation list September last year. It will fly the Pakistani flag after retirement in September this year.

Pakistani sources said that frigate is a gift from US and will fly Pakistani flag as cost-efficient “hot-transfer” but US Defence Security Department in a notification to Congress said the frigate and its associated equipment, parts and logistical support will be worth atleast $78 millions.

This transfer would be done through the US International Programs Office and its foreign military sales department.

Once transferred to Pakistan, the ship will also join Combined Task Force aimed at fighting sea pirates in the troubled waters of the Gulf of Aden, Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.

USS McInerney’s onboard refurbishment includes anti-submarine missile defences, surface-to-surface missiles, other advance weaponry systems and with helicopter deck landing facilities.—DawnNews

 

[maverick1977]

Some of the gents who are claiming that this ship is a rip off needs to understand couple of things,

1) Pakistan is a poor country and a new ship will cost more than 200 million $. Getting something for 78 million and then refitting it with our system is not a problem. We can modify this ship based on our requirement. Pakistan is not forced to use equipment controlled by US. think about it from this perspective.

2) Why shouldnt pakistan enjoy NATO allied status. it helps pakistan get surplus equipment at cheaper rate. Where else can we get western equipment like that.

3) Dawn seems to have anti govt and anti army agenda. Shame on them for upbringing such a title and instigating masses.

4) pakistan Always had old ship 20 to 30 years old in its fleet. what wrong right now?

Lastely, stop crying and be thankful to your Lord for getting something for Navy.

 

[jagjitnatt]

4) pakistan Always had old ship 20 to 30 years old in its fleet. what wrong right now?

exactly. Pakistan's current navy is not state of the art either. Its will be a great upgrade at a fraction of cost for Pak navy.

Even India buys used naval equipment. The INS Viraat is also second hand, but its serving us great even after all these years.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Welcome home to Pakistan Oliver Hazard Class Frigate

 

[Storm Force]

This is a very good deal for Pakistan.

The American Frigate is at least as capable as India,s Kashin Class Destroyers al beit slightly inferior to the New Krivak/Talwar class frigates that India is inducting now.

For $78m its a steal and Pakistan should get the others too.

It double the Navys fire power if they get all 5 frigates for $80m each.

A STEAL

 

[maverick1977]

Do you guys remember iraqi F1 hitting US OHP Stark in 1987 with two AM39 exocet missiles. Both missiles penetrated OHP and killed 39 US sailors. The ship didnt go down but that brings in couple of questions and answers.

1) Even tough OHP Stark was crippled it floated and got repaired, which tells us about the resiliency of this ship
2) Did the CWIS system in Stark kick in ? any decoys deployed ?

US Navy chronicles says that the ship was saved by well trained crew. I guess fire drills and evasive tactics are important after the impact.

3) How often does PN have fire drills on their ships? Is there a standard that it has to be 3 times in a month or something else? any comments ?

4) Also, the damage of an Anti ship missiles are far greater than any state of the art Phalanx CWIS systems on a frigate or a destroyer

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Do you guys remember iraqi F1 hitting US OHP Stark in 1987 with two AM39 exocet missiles. Both missiles penetrated OHP and killed 39 US sailors. The ship didnt go down but that brings in couple of questions and answers.

1) Even tough OHP Stark was crippled it floated and got repaired, which tells us about the resiliency of this ship
2) Did the CWIS system in Stark kick in ? any decoys deployed ?

US Navy chronicles says that the ship was saved by well trained crew. I guess fire drills and evasive tactics are important after the impact.

3) How often does PN have fire drills on their ships? Is there a standard that it has to be 3 times in a month or something else? any comments ?

4) Also, the damage of an Anti ship missiles are far greater than any state of the art Phalanx CWIS systems on a frigate or a destroyer

The new ciws would have protected ship better, its for last line of defence ...

 

[Aamir Hussain]

As far as I know the fire fighting capabilities of the US submarine force is the best in the world. Their sub base at Groton, Connecticut is the main training center for their sailors and submariners.

One of the major advantage that US has over other navies is the level of training of it ratings. The fire suppression and Firefighting equipment is given a lot of focus in USN with regular individual certification of officer and men in that area.

I guess that was the edge and made the difference in USS Stark and many a USN Nuclear Subs.

I am not so sure of the PN. We got hit by Styx during the 71' war (PNS Khyber sank with a heavy loss of life). The ship was a WWII destroyer with no Aluminum in it superstructure even then it went down very quickly.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Do you guys remember iraqi F1 hitting US OHP Stark in 1987 with two AM39 exocet missiles. Both missiles penetrated OHP and killed 39 US sailors. The ship didnt go down but that brings in couple of questions and answers.

1) Even tough OHP Stark was crippled it floated and got repaired, which tells us about the resiliency of this ship
2) Did the CWIS system in Stark kick in ? any decoys deployed ?

US Navy chronicles says that the ship was saved by well trained crew. I guess fire drills and evasive tactics are important after the impact.

3) How often does PN have fire drills on their ships? Is there a standard that it has to be 3 times in a month or something else? any comments ?

4) Also, the damage of an Anti ship missiles are far greater than any state of the art Phalanx CWIS systems on a frigate or a destroyer

I am assuming USN OHP was taken by surprise. They never saw it coming.

 

[maverick1977]

1 ) couple of scenarios here... Stark might have been taken by surprise. First of all. if missile was launched at 80nm+ then we need to understand that Stark Radar can detect target more than 150nm. even it might have known the presence of iraqi F1s but it somehow might have missed missiles fired from it.

The intent target might have been be different but missile guidance system might have picked Stark and homed on it eventually.

Stark might have detected the missile at the last minutes when missile must have appeared over the horizon and its homing waves picked by Stark defences. CWIS must have kicked in at that time but i guess it was not effective in stopping the missille and it ripped the ship on port side.

2) The other scenario is that the pilot had a lock on Stark inwhich case Stark shouldve picked the lockon and had ample time for evasive manuvers.


I am more inclined towards the first scenario.


Also, Groton has the worlds biggest submarine Pen. Atlantic nuclear fleet operates from there. its a beautiful area of Connecticut.

 

[Penguin]

Do you guys remember iraqi F1 hitting US OHP Stark in 1987 with two AM39 exocet missiles. Both missiles penetrated OHP and killed 39 US sailors. The ship didnt go down but that brings in couple of questions and answers.

1) Even tough OHP Stark was crippled it floated and got repaired, which tells us about the resiliency of this ship
2) Did the CWIS system in Stark kick in ? any decoys deployed ?

US Navy chronicles says that the ship was saved by well trained crew. I guess fire drills and evasive tactics are important after the impact.

3) How often does PN have fire drills on their ships? Is there a standard that it has to be 3 times in a month or something else? any comments ?

4) Also, the damage of an Anti ship missiles are far greater than any state of the art Phalanx CWIS systems on a frigate or a destroyer

None of the frigate's system detected the incoming missiles. An AWACS plane monitoring the area also did not detect the missiles but only the Iraqi fighter aircraft.

USS Stark (FFG 31)

The ship was struck on May 17, 1987, by two Exocet antiship missiles fired from an Iraqi F-1 Mirage plane during the Iran–Iraq War. The plane had taken off from Shaibah at 20:00 and had flown south into the Persian Gulf. The fighter fired the first Exocet missile from a range of 22.5 nautical miles, and the second from 15.5 nautical miles, at about the time the fighter was given a routine radio warning by the Stark. The frigate did not detect the missiles with radar and warning was given by the lookout only moments before the missiles struck. The first penetrated the port-side hull; it failed to detonate, but spewed flaming rocket fuel in its path. The second entered at almost the same point, and left a 3-by-4-meter gash—then exploded in crew quarters. Thirty-seven sailors were killed and twenty-one were injured.

No weapons were fired in defense of Stark. The Phalanx CIWS remained in standby mode, Mark 36 SRBOC countermeasures were not armed, and the attacking Exocet missiles and Mirage aircraft were in a blindspot of the defensive STIR (Separate Target Illumination Radar) fire control system, preventing use of the ship's Standard missile defenses. The ship failed to maneuver to bring its weapons batteries to bear prior to the first missile impact.

On fire and listing, the frigate was brought under control by its crew during the night. The ship made its way to Bahrain where, after temporary repairs by the tender USS Acadia (AD-42) to make her seaworthy, she returned to her home port of Mayport, Florida, under her own power. The ship was eventually repaired at Ingalls Shipbuilding in Mississippi for $142 million.

USS Stark (FFG-31) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Note: the blinspot of the STIR is actually covered by the WM-25 which could illuminate targets for SM1 at short range e.g. 20km)

During the 1987 deployment, Stark was struck by two missiles fired by Iraqi aircraft. The fires that resulted claimed 37 lives and wounding 21. The frigate was heavily damaged and could only be saved by the effective help of the crew. After this incident a discussion about the efficiency of the Phalanx CIWS, the SLQ 32 and the Mk 92 Fire Control system started.

FFG 31 Stark

 

[maverick1977]

Very interesting Pengiun. It seems like non of the defensive systems came into action. hard to believe that system was on standyby when u are in middle of combat zone and iraqi and iranian warplanes were regularly hitting ships in persian gulf. it seems like the same situation as Isreali corvette was hit by hamas launched C701 missile from land. Do these systems really work ?

 

[Penguin]

Very interesting Pengiun. It seems like non of the defensive systems came into action. hard to believe that system was on standyby when u are in middle of combat zone and iraqi and iranian warplanes were regularly hitting ships in persian gulf. it seems like the same situation as Isreali corvette was hit by hamas launched C701 missile from land. Do these systems really work ?

At the time, US-Iraqi relation were friendly, there was no reason to expect an attack by Iraq on US ships. And international waters isn't combat zone.

So yes, these systems work. And yes, they are not perfect (some people have unrealistic expectations: Sea Wolf can hit a 4,5"grenade but that didn't prevent the system from being unable to protect all ships in Falklands > reality and fog of war intervened)