Old School Jet Retooled to Slay Stealth Fighters

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F-15E flies with new radar system​

1/24/2011 - EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, Fla. (AFNS) -- Officials took a step forward in the F-15E Strike Eagle's continuous technological evolution as the Air Force's most versatile combat aircraft here Jan. 18.

Officials from the 46th Test Wing launched the fourth generation fighter for the first time with a new and improved radar system, the APG-82(V)1.

The APG-82 uses active electronically scanned array radar technology composed of numerous small solid-state transmit and receive modules. The standard radar, APG-70, is a mechanically scanned array housed in the nose of the aircraft. Although the current F-15E radar has undergone numerous updates and upgrades, it is still the same system the aircraft had on its maiden flight more than 24 years ago.

"We've been able to get more out of it, but at this point it's pretty much maxed out," said 1st Lt. Nathaniel Meier, a radar modernization project manager with the Operational Flight Program Combined Test Force.

The new radar lacks the motors and hydraulics of the old system and includes a new avionics and cooling system.

Aircraft radar continuously sends out and receives energy to identify objects or targets around it.

Due to its unique capabilities, the F-15E radar operates as air-to-air and air-to-ground radar, officials said.

"One AESA-equipped F-15E can detect and track multiple targets simultaneously and gain the same battle picture and prosecute the same number of attacks that currently require several mechanically scanned radar assets," said Brad Jones, the Boeing director for U.S. Air Force development programs. "Adding AESA multiplies the effectiveness of the F-15E."

The advantage AESA radar has over an MSA is its near-instantaneous ability to redirect its focus from air-to-air to air-to-ground mode, officials said.

By no longer having to wait for the array to physically move to a new area of interest, the aircrew receives better situational awareness in less time, Lieutenant Meier said.

The four-year-old project borrowed from existing technology to create the new system. The array system was taken from F-15C Eagle models and the avionics were borrowed from F-18 Hornets.

The reason for the change was to improve the entire aircraft's reliability, availability and maintainability, Lieutenant Meier said.

The new radar works as a plug-in-play system with newer, easily replaceable parts, the lieutenant said.

It's expected to have approximately a 20-fold improvement in aircraft reliability, he said.

The aircraft also stays mission-ready.

An average failure for the radar component was previously measured in tens of hours and can now be measured in hundreds of hours, Lieutenant Meier said.

The APG-82 has fewer moving parts and the new equipment lasts longer, which cuts down on the time needed for repairs, he said.

The modification of the aircraft, which began in June 2010, was a concerted effort by members of Boeing, the 46th Maintenance Group, Raytheon, the 46th Technical Support Squadron and the OFP CTF.

"Without their determination, (F-15E) RMP would not have been anywhere close to making its first flight," Lieutenant Meier said.

The developmental test flight was considered successful, and the aircrew members said they liked what they saw during the flight.

"There are huge performance increases," said Maj. Raja Chari, a 40th Flight Test Squadron member and the pilot for the first flight. "We're getting the benefit of two decades worth of technology. From what we saw in this flight, we're heading in the right direction."

The developmental test process is about building incrementally into testing more complicated functions of the equipment and finding any flaws and problems based on usage in specific test profiles.

"Really, the engineers put in the time and hard work," Major Chari said. "We have the easy part of seeing if it will do what they thought it would. It was interesting to see the engineers reacting and diagnosing the issues right away, based on our feedback."

Capt. Chris Dupin, a 40th FTS member and the weapons system officer for the first flight, said he noticed improved capabilities during the initial flight.

He said the radar was able to detect F-16s much farther away than ever before.

"The kill chain for anything is the ability to detect, identify, target and engage a threat," Captain Dupin said. "If we can detect an air target earlier or farther away, that leaves more time and space to complete the rest of the kill chain. Completing the kill chain faster and earlier means we're better able to gain or maintain airspace superiority."

The biggest "test" facing the project involves combining avionics and array systems from other aircraft and incorporating them into a totally different one.

"By using (government and commercial) off-the-shelf equipment, the Air Force is able to save a large amount of the development costs, but the challenge is integrating these new systems and making them work as one," Lieutenant Meier said.

Developmental testing is scheduled to continue through 2012, but the OFP CTF, being a shared unit of the 46th Test Wing and 53rd Wing, is unique in that its members can perform developmental tests while incorporating early operational testing.

Officials have begun modifying a 53rd Wing F-15E with the new radar and they plan to begin some of the operational type of testing as early as March.

The next stage of testing for the radar will be conducted by Air Force Operational Test and Evaluation Center officials before being incorporated in all F-15Es beginning in approximately 2014.



F-15E flies with new radar system

 

[Chogy]

choggy man, you were/are a pilot i don't want to argue or disrespect you man, but .

both the typhoon and the rafale are both better than the F15 in the air superiority role, almost all flankers were superior flying machines with better weapons too and only lacked in usable modes in their radars.
i.e. a base su27 pilot could not do track while scan, but the radars were immensely powerful and these weaknesses were fixed during the 90s and early 2000s.

The Amraam has longer range than the detection range of the F22?
what do you mean ? that an F22 will detect a plane and immediately that plane is within Amraam firing range. I doubt that.

you mean maybe that when an enemy fighter detects the F22 it will already be inside the range of the F15's amraams ?

what kind of linear logic for a pilot is this man? the F22 supercruises, the F15 does not ? how does that work out ? F15s will be flying circles while the F22s freely roam the fringes of their detection range? i am sorry that doesn't go down with me very well, but who am I to know, right ?

I'm not denying the capabilities of jets like the Raf, Typhoon, others. I am claiming that they are not necessarily superior to an AESA-equipped F-15 flown by competent pilots. The air-air combat record of the Eagle is over 100:0. No F-15 has ever been shot down by another fighter in its entire history. To claim that it is not a threat because it is "old" is to deny reality. I'd consider an F-5 a threat... If it flies, is supersonic, and carries modern missiles, it is dangerous and must be respected.

You're missing my point with mixed formations. Today, we have data-linking. Missiles can be handed-off to other illuminating platforms after launch. Data can be shared between platforms. And quantity has a quality all its own. Augmenting F-22's with F-15's, F-16's, expands the capabilities of all of them.

The Amraam has longer range than the detection range of the F22?
what do you mean ? that an F22 will detect a plane and immediately that plane is within Amraam firing range. I doubt that.

I mean that the AMRAAM effective range is farther than the range at which an enemy can detect an F-22. The F-22 can fly undetected, gather target data, send that data to F-15's standing off who can launch and leave. The F-22 never fires or even opens its weapons' bays.

Non-stealthy platforms can also perform decoy, drag, distraction tactics... they can carry jamming equipment. And of course, they can mop up targets missed by F-22's in a melee type of fight.

The essence of the argument against these sort of tactics or formations is that unless a jet is 5th gen then it may as well never launch, and that is silly. An asset is an asset. Upgrade them, and use them.

 

[amalakas]

I'm not denying the capabilities of jets like the Raf, Typhoon, others. I am claiming that they are not necessarily superior to an AESA-equipped F-15 flown by competent pilots. The air-air combat record of the Eagle is over 100:0. No F-15 has ever been shot down by another fighter in its entire history. To claim that it is not a threat because it is "old" is to deny reality. I'd consider an F-5 a threat... If it flies, is supersonic, and carries modern missiles, it is dangerous and must be respected.

You're missing my point with mixed formations. Today, we have data-linking. Missiles can be handed-off to other illuminating platforms after launch. Data can be shared between platforms. And quantity has a quality all its own. Augmenting F-22's with F-15's, F-16's, expands the capabilities of all of them.



I mean that the AMRAAM effective range is farther than the range at which an enemy can detect an F-22. The F-22 can fly undetected, gather target data, send that data to F-15's standing off who can launch and leave. The F-22 never fires or even opens its weapons' bays.

Non-stealthy platforms can also perform decoy, drag, distraction tactics... they can carry jamming equipment. And of course, they can mop up targets missed by F-22's in a melee type of fight.

The essence of the argument against these sort of tactics or formations is that unless a jet is 5th gen then it may as well never launch, and that is silly. An asset is an asset. Upgrade them, and use them.

I totally agree with you about the older platforms. as long as something flies and can carry weapons, it is something to be respected and treated accordingly .. and I thought F-5s were awesome having flown in a couple of them..

it is not the mixed formations i have a problem with, it is the way you describe it.

ok, let us assume you have F22s, and F15s flying the mixed formation you describe, against a flight of Su-30s , ok, let's assume the F22, do pick up (as they would) the Su-30s clearly and with targeting info at what? 120 km? let's say that, way out of the range the Su-30s can detect the F22 with Radar ,and too far out for the IRST sensor too pick it up..

if they now relay the info on the F15s , it is now i have the problem with your description.. surely the F15s don't supercruise, hence the effective amraam range (obviously altitude will have something to do with it) is way less than the 120km the F22 has on the Su-30s..
not to mention that at 120km, the Su-30s have the F15s on the radars quite quite clearly .. even possibly at 160-80 km , the Su-30s know the F15s are there, and the missiles the Su-30s are carrying have the range advantage on the amraams ..so yes, the F22 can relay targets and let the F15s do the shooting.. but the F15s are very very visible to other modern fighters, aren't they.. ??

 

[Chogy]

Of course the F-22's could be shooting long before the F-15's. But you can think of the F-22's as acting like the Eagle's radar. After launch, the F-15's can drag out, which will kinematically defeat any missile shot at them. From the Su-30 perspective, all they see is a gaggle of fighters dragging out, flying away. In reality, there may be a half-dozen AMRAAMs headed their way, guided by data from the F-22, which remains totally invisible.

That's just one way to do it. I'm sure those with imagination can think of many others. My only objection is the dismissal of F-15/16/18 platforms as if they are useless. 99% of the world's Air Forces have these types of aircraft, or Russian equivalent.

Why would the U.S. not put them to use?

 

[flameboard]

Of course the F-22's could be shooting long before the F-15's. But you can think of the F-22's as acting like the Eagle's radar. After launch, the F-15's can drag out, which will kinematically defeat any missile shot at them. From the Su-30 perspective, all they see is a gaggle of fighters dragging out, flying away. In reality, there may be a half-dozen AMRAAMs headed their way, guided by data from the F-22, which remains totally invisible.

That's just one way to do it. I'm sure those with imagination can think of many others. My only objection is the dismissal of F-15/16/18 platforms as if they are useless. 99% of the world's Air Forces have these types of aircraft, or Russian equivalent.

Why would the U.S. not put them to use?

here's why no to f-22 YouTube - Wastefull F-22 fighter Jet By GOP Congress Rachel Maddow

 

[gambit]

here's why no to f-22 YouTube - Wastefull F-22 fighter Jet By GOP Congress Rachel Maddow

Rachel Maddow? Her crap has been debunked HERE many times over. You are waaaaayyyy behind the times.

 

[casual]

fk, these planes are older then i am. just junk them already. we need new stuff.

 

[amalakas]

Of course the F-22's could be shooting long before the F-15's. But you can think of the F-22's as acting like the Eagle's radar. After launch, the F-15's can drag out, which will kinematically defeat any missile shot at them. From the Su-30 perspective, all they see is a gaggle of fighters dragging out, flying away. In reality, there may be a half-dozen AMRAAMs headed their way, guided by data from the F-22, which remains totally invisible.

That's just one way to do it. I'm sure those with imagination can think of many others. My only objection is the dismissal of F-15/16/18 platforms as if they are useless. 99% of the world's Air Forces have these types of aircraft, or Russian equivalent.

Why would the U.S. not put them to use?

but choggy..

The F22 can guide the half a dozen missiles all it wants.. they will never reach the target, that was my point.
Russian lineage fighters have the advantage when it comes to effective weapons range, they will fire on the F15s first..

of course they may choose to stay on course to guide the missiles via illuminating the target, but noone can guarantee that unless they have seen the loadout of the plane.
Russians have a varied mix of missiles, who knows what kind of missiles they will fire, during battle you cannot count on them using semi-active guidance ones, they might not.

the way you explain it, the scenario is very possible and probable..
especially if the fight is as it has been so far..

i don't think it'll work for modern fighters though .. Su-30s/35s, EF2000s, rafales, even Grippens, will see through this very easily ..
then again, it is unlikely the US will fly against these planes ever.. so ..

 

[nightcrawler]

The magic is all in the Eagle’s nose. Compared to the angular, stealthy F-22, the totally non-stealth F-15 has a more capacious nosecone that can carry a larger radar. The larger the radar, the more likely it is to detect the J-20, despite that plane’s potentially very small frontal radar cross-section. The F-15 also routinely carries more fuel and missiles than the F-22.

I think Carlo Copp was right about huge Radars & their similar detection capability on Sukhoi series which USA despises in favor of Stealth!!
as is said by amakals

The F22 can guide the half a dozen missiles all it wants.. they will never reach the target, that was my point.
Russian lineage fighters have the advantage when it comes to effective weapons range, they will fire on the F15s first..

He is referring to
R-37 missile which has a greater range relative to AMRAAM in any profile.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

There is a popular saying in Computer Science
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" - Donald Knuth
And it fits well in case of F-22....!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

This should be included here.

F-15E AESA Radar Tests Begin

 

[nightcrawler]

This should be included here.

http://www..pk/forums/military-forum/90646-usaf-starts-flight-tests-f-15e-aesa-radar.html#post1440515

Sir kindly recheck your link

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

^^
Its Ok now.

 

[applesauce]

let me get this right, they put a bigger/better radar in an older design to kill the 5th gens, any reason they cant put a better radar in a 5th gen as well? with the same radar but the 5th gen being stealthier the advantage would still be against the older plane so in the end nothing changes?