Official: U.S. Military to Set Up New Training Centers Inside Pakistan

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Great Cooperation , it may also help to reduce the gulf developed due to the trust defficit ..! Training will greatly boost up the capability of our FC which may tackle those militants well and save some innocent lives ..!

 

[Thomas]

As of FEB 9, 2010 here is the death count for all NATO countries in Afghanistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

USA: 914
UK: 256
Canada: 138
France: 40
Germany: 40
Denmark: 31
Spain: 26
Italy: 22
Netherlands: 21
Poland: 16
Australia: 11
Romania: 11
Estonia: 7
Norway: 5
Sweden: 4
Czech Republic: 3
Latvia: 3
Hungary: 2
Portugal: 2
South Korea: 2
Turkey: 2
Belgium: 1
Finland: 1
Jordan: 1
Lithuania: 1

TOTAL: 1,560

For anyone that is familiar with military history. Or been involved in other wars that have lasted at least 9 years in duration. Those are some very low death counts.

 

[Thomas]

US and NATO Military (Nato "No action talk only")

why there military casualities in Afghan and Iraq very low as compare to Pakistani Forces because US and Pakistan operation style totally different. NATO/American first use Airforce to clear area the area and after that when some little trash left on the ground the military forces enter that area remember before main ressistance almost finish because of Airstrikes by Airforce. On the other side Pakistan Military forces first use Ground military operation and when Airforce required for close airsupport thn we use our Airforce otherwise our Army doing ground military operation thats why our casualities more then American. BS trained us who dont have gutz to fight with talibans face to face and they will trained us ???? Stupid!

So called WORLD MOST BEST Forces will trained Pakistan forces make me laugh!!

Not completely true! The U.S. engaged in a lot of urban house to house fighting in Iraq.

 

[Javed3]

US is training our forces to fight more “professionally” on its own soil, against poorly armed and led lose outfits. This does not add much to the capabilities of our forces to fight a real war against numerically or technologically superior enemy.

This sort of training turns professional soldiers into better interrogators, guards and policemen; in effect eroding their capabilities.

The disadvantages can be listed as follows:
1. Onset on Master-Slave mentality a la ARVN in the 70’s.
2. Free hand and access to US forces to Pakistan’s Strategic assets.
3. Passing operational control to the US on our sensitive tribal territories.
4. Giving the US a deep hand-on insight to the operational doctrine, tactics, psyche and capabilities.

Gen Kiyani attended Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, KY; better known as the Ltino Banana Republics party school; where the military junta despots got trained to fight their own people. Now General sahib is replicating the lessons learnt on its own soil. We have in effect touched all time lows.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

woo wooo
Now thats cool a bunch of rag tag idiots who are out to destroy the very existence of Pakistan must not be fought against because after all they are our people, wow cool
Any one who will kill innocents in market places will be fought against whether its our people or what ever they are, you advise me what were we going to without American support in arms etc

The disadvantages can be listed as follows:
1. Onset on Master-Slave mentality a la ARVN in the 70’s.
2. Free hand and access to US forces to Pakistan’s Strategic assets.
3. Passing operational control to the US on our sensitive tribal territories.
4. Giving the US a deep hand-on insight to the operational doctrine, tactics, psyche and capabilities.

1) Master & slave we are taking Aid from them for God sake, they are going to act like masters
2) whats makes you think they will have access to strategic assets, our strategic assets are not been distributed on roads like 'free meals'
3)PA is operating right now & will do so in future, there is no mention that American boots will operate on our side of border
4)how exactly?

as sir Fatman said

"as long as they remain as trainers and advisers and leave the fighting to the PA, i have no problem with this arrangement."

US is training our forces to fight more “professionally” on its own soil, against poorly armed and led lose outfits. This does not add much to the capabilities of our forces to fight a real war against numerically or technologically superior enemy.

This sort of training turns professional soldiers into better interrogators, guards and policemen; in effect eroding their capabilities.

There is a thing called counter insurgency, thats where we need to learn if we can learn from any one i don't see anything wrong with it & moreover if they are training FC to become a effective counter insurgency force then it will relieve pressure on PA & it will be able to concentrate more on 'numerically & technologically superior enemy' COAS has already said that PA will remain India centric, I don't know why people still think these 'cavemen' are not a threat to our national security

 

[pak-yes]

In reality as long as we continue to take this AID and money.

No matter how loud we scream no one will listen to us.

Beggars are not choosers.

 

[Javed3]

EmO GiRl:
“”Now thats cool a bunch of rag tag idiots who are out to destroy the very existence of Pakistan must not be fought against because after all they are our people, wow cool””

You never turn your forces into surrogates just because of a few Rag Tag idiots. The Rag Tag idiots cannot destroy the very existence of Pakistan, no matter what they do. Pakistan is not a marsh mallow or that fragile. Our corrupt political and military leadership has made us look weak and vulnerable; which we are not..

The rag tag idiots are basically a political issue, which has spiraled into a vicious revenge cycle due to massive bloodshed from both sides. We have needlessly taken ownership of the US War Afghanistan, that it is hell bent on spreading to Pakistan’s soil. Now Joe Biden has the cheeks to say that “The real war is in Pakistan” and our leadership takes it a kind of Compliment (because they feel that they are being given importance as vital cogs in the US war).

COIN or counter-insurgency is universally the scourge of all Banana Republics; it never happens in pluralistic democratic societies. To take help from a foreign power in COIN operations is tantamount to surrender of what is left of nation’s sovereignty.

Our forces have degenerated into a COIN force whose only mission is conquer own territory and leave the vulnerable eastern border to the good offices of the US to keep India in good humor.

I was a bit amused by the statement "as long as they remain as trainers and advisers and leave the fighting to the PA, i have no problem with this arrangement."

Once the nation’s sovereignty is sacrificed on the altar of expediency there is neither the will nor the resources to prevent the emergence of a master-slave relationship. US pumped an order of magnitude more arms and resources into ARVN to grow cheaper gun fodder to feed ist war machine in Vietnam.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

EmO GiRl:
“”Now thats cool a bunch of rag tag idiots who are out to destroy the very existence of Pakistan must not be fought against because after all they are our people, wow cool””

You never turn your forces into surrogates just because of a few Rag Tag idiots. The Rag Tag idiots cannot destroy the very existence of Pakistan, no matter what they do. Pakistan is not a marsh mallow or that fragile. Our corrupt political and military leadership has made us look weak and vulnerable; which we are not..

The rag tag idiots are basically a political issue, which has spiraled into a vicious revenge cycle due to massive bloodshed from both sides. We have needlessly taken ownership of the US War Afghanistan, that it is hell bent on spreading to Pakistan’s soil. Now Joe Biden has the cheeks to say that “The real war is in Pakistan” and our leadership takes it a kind of Compliment (because they feel that they are being given importance as vital cogs in the US war).

COIN or counter-insurgency is universally the scourge of all Banana Republics; it never happens in pluralistic democratic societies. To take help from a foreign power in COIN operations is tantamount to surrender of what is left of nation’s sovereignty.

Our forces have degenerated into a COIN force whose only mission is conquer own territory and leave the vulnerable eastern border to the good offices of the US to keep India in good humor.

I was a bit amused by the statement "as long as they remain as trainers and advisers and leave the fighting to the PA, i have no problem with this arrangement."

Once the nation’s sovereignty is sacrificed on the altar of expediency there is neither the will nor the resources to prevent the emergence of a master-slave relationship. US pumped an order of magnitude more arms and resources into ARVN to grow cheaper gun fodder to feed ist war machine in Vietnam.

I think you didnt got the meaning behind 'rag tag idiots', i meant that those cavemen are no doubt idiots but they have potential to make this nation cry with misery or should i say

"our allegedly unsophisticated enemy has told us an unsophisticated truth that we are all an easy target"

they cannot destroy Pakistani all right but they have the potential to push us back to the stone age with their own version of religion, don't you think that?
What is done - is done, we don't need to live in past the failures of this nation must be dragged into discussions we need to see what we can do, right now we need forces to learn more in COIN & if we are getting some training for FC to make it a potential Anti Taliban Force then whats wrong with it, it will help PA not to worry mush about western borders & concentrate on the 'real job'
& moreover what makes you think that Pakistan Armed Forces have forgotten India even for a single moment

 

[Javed3]

“”they cannot destroy Pakistani all right but they have the potential to push us back to the stone age with their own version of religion, don't you think that?””

Countries just do not grow feet and walk away. Rag tags have the potential to push us back into “stone age” only if they win an election; no chance of that. And if by some miracle they do; you will have a “Comparatively’ more honest administration than Chacha Zardari!. I mean in Comparison.


“”What is done - is done, we don't need to live in past the failures of this nation must be dragged into discussions we need to see what we can do, right now we need forces to learn more in COIN & if we are getting some training for FC to make it a potential Anti Taliban Force then whats wrong with it, it will help PA not to worry mush about western borders & concentrate on the 'real job'””

COIN training does not produce professional soldiers. You end up producing thugs, torturers, interrogators, and assassins that have no relevance to the life, honor and property of its won citizens. FC will never be capable of subjugating the tribal population to the menace level of lambs in slaughterhouse. Western border is not a threat and has never been; this is a cash spinning mantra to make some quick $.

“”& moreover what makes you think that Pakistan Armed Forces have forgotten India even for a single moment””
With 1/3rd of numerical strength and about 60% resources dedicated to wage war on own soil, what capacity is PA left with to defend Indian border. PA is squarely dependent on the US / NATO to keep India in good humor through cajoling and by making Pakistan accept a Bhutan like status. You cannot talk of Kashmir even for cosmetic reasons!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

”

Countries just do not grow feet and walk away. Rag tags have the potential to push us back into “stone age” only if they win an election; no chance of that. And if by some miracle they do; you will have a “Comparatively’ more honest administration than Chacha Zardari!. I mean in Comparison.

yeah right, on one hand we have got bunch of blood thirsty morons & on the other we have elected thugs agreed, so whats the solution are we going to do except crying on slit milk??
I hope you are not trying to say that those cavemen will rule better

COIN training does not produce professional soldiers. You end up producing thugs, torturers, interrogators, and assassins that have no relevance to the life, honor and property of its won citizens. FC will never be capable of subjugating the tribal population to the menace level of lambs in slaughterhouse. Western border is not a threat and has never been; this is a cash spinning mantra to make some quick $.

My goodness if they are training FC & increasing the capabilities of our forces then then what the hell is wrong with it???
Western were not a problem but they became a problem & if they are training FC to deal effectively with the problem & i repeat making FC an effective force will help release pressure from PA
Slaughter houses & slaughter videos were released by whom & who blew up people in markets

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Mr Thomas,

You forgot to list down Afghan Army casualties in WoT.

Now the reason why western troops have suffered "low deaths" is because:

- Whenever there is a operation, they send fighter jets first to completely destroy terrorist hideouts, while causing as much damage to the civilans too.
- Once the air strike is done, they send afghan troops to go fight out the remaining terrorist, resulting in Afghan army taking casualities
- When Afghan, after suffering a lot of casualties, takes control of the area that is when Western Troops go in and start claiming "victories".

While on this side of the border, our army is the one who starts the operation and ends it. Unlike you, we rely more on ground troops than on airstrike. That's the exact reason why we have suffered more casualties. We care about our civilans and make sure collateral damage is kept to minimum while your troops just send the fighter jets to finish off 80% of the job.....which results in a lot of civilian casualties which later on gets blamed on Talibans.

Remember the incident when Taliban attacked a checkpost and killed 6-8 US troops? Forgot what happened after that? Instead of staying their to fight the talibans....yanks decided to leave the entire area. Talk about bravery, eh?

 

[S-2]

Some here show a very incomplete understanding of the realities of the Afghan war. They don't understand or willfully dissemble the horrid effect the taliban have had on the Afghan population.

Allow me to clear their fog with some FACTS about civilian casualties last year in Afghanistan-

Annual Report On The Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict-United Nations Assistance Mission Afghanistan 2009

Because some here can't click open a link or read beyond the comic books let me quote the relevant passage necessary to assure their understanding of the heinous disregard the taliban show for the Afghans they ostensibly defend from ISAF-

"UNAMA Human Rights (HR) recorded a total of 2,412 civilian deaths between 01 January and 31 December 2009. This figure represents an increase of 14% on the 2118 civilian deaths recorded in 2008. Of the 2,412 deaths reported in 2009, 1,630 (67%) were attributed to anti-Government elements (AGEs) and 596 (25%) to pro-Government forces (PGF). The remaining 186 deaths (8%) could not be attributed to any of the conflicting parties given as some civilians died as a result of cross-fire or were killed by unexploded ordinance.

AGEs remain responsible for the largest proportion of civilian deaths. Civilian deaths reportedly caused by the armed opposition increased by 41% between 2008 and 2009, from 1,160 to 1,630."

The taliban killed afghan civilians last year at a rate of nearly 3:1 of the supposedly fire-power slinging ISAF and ANA. How can this be? Are they not the "defenders" of the afghan people? What permits the taliban to rocket and mortar markets, use suicide bombers in mosques and crowds, and assassinate citizens.

How is it that the taliban justify the use of human shields when confronted with their destruction by ISAF? Are they not true warriors of God or is it Godly to hide behind a woman's skirt?

Let the lies and myths be uncovered in the light of day. All it takes is literacy to read and know. Those that refuse the facts expose their own heinous agendas to enslave the afghan people for their own narrow ambitions.

Thanks.

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Yeah Talibans killed most of the civilans but yet somehow they still enjoy local support...interesting isn't it? That's the exact reason why Talibans in Afghanistan are still alive even after 9 years of this so called WoT.

Talibans kill most of the civilians but yet they get the support from the very same civilians. Strange indeed.

 

[Thomas]

Our numbers are ~2700 or so and include Army, FC and even police stationed in the region.

But I agree that training together is a good thing. We should do it with Americans, with British, with Saudis, with Turks and Jordanians and whosoever else.

It also helps build trust between us.

 

[Thomas]

Yeah Talibans killed most of the civilans but yet somehow they still enjoy local support...interesting isn't it? That's the exact reason why Talibans in Afghanistan are still alive even after 9 years of this so called WoT.

Talibans kill most of the civilians but yet they get the support from the very same civilians. Strange indeed.

They buy a lot of support becuase they use their drug money to pay more money then the Afghan Government does. People are desperate for jobs to feed their families. Not becuase of their love for the Taliban. They see the Atrocities the Taliban commit against them.

I would dare to say the Taliban enjoy more support from some here in this thread. Who have not endured the Taliban beatings, kidnappings, murder of family members, being used as human shields, or cannon fodder for I.E.D.'s.

Government corruption has been key to fomenting public distrust of Kabul. The U.S. has recently began bypassing the Afghan Government on many jobs projects to help counter this. There is a long ways to go yet in bringing positive change to Afghanistan.

But don't delude yourself into thinking the U.S. is leaving Afghanistan in defeat anytime soon. Or believe the Taliban propaganda that they have won the hearts and minds of the average Afghan citizen. The Taliban are going to be in for a rude awakening now that the U.S. is putting 90% of its concentration on Afghanistan rather then Iraq.


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