Of Pakistan, Terrorism, and Confusion

[Lilo]

did any seminary in pakistan give out a fatwa against all forms of terrorism?

 

[waraich66]

This thesis of poverty being the cause of terrorism is beyond my comprehension. If poverty, injustice and corruption was the problem then TTP would have these things on top on their agenda. i hardly see any terrorism in any part of the world which is the result of poverty. they are either, religious, ethnic or political.
there are many parts of the world which are extremely poor even poorer than our FATA areas but they do not resort to terrorism.
but i agree that such conditions provide a fertile ground for terrorists to get recruits.

Corruption and Injustice in any society is root cause of poverty no one in the world can deny this fact .

These two factors could drag any society or nation towards poverty and finally society will suffer from terrorism and bloodshed , hunger etc.

In this satuation small terrorist groups will get strength ,TTP and many other groups are active in FATA , similarly their are terrorist groups in Balouchistan and interrior Sindh also exist but less effective due to location and lack of coordination .

After defeat of talaban in Afghanistan , the talaban forces divided into small groups and scaterred in different part of Afghanistan and Pakistan and supporting each other , these groups have divided their operational areas but linked and supporting each other , which is neccessary for their survival.

They are well trained for gurrilla war fare and effectively resisting ISAF forces from last eight years and could continue gurrilla war for many decades.

They have advantage of terrin and harsh weather conditions and strategic location .

More then 5000 Madrasah near Pak- Afghan borader is their breeding ground and they are now financially more stronger then GOP and GOA because they learned how to generat money and get weapons through secret chanels.

Both GOP and GOA are corrupt and wasting public money and totally dependent on US support , i think US should first remove the corrupt regimes from Afghanistan and Pakistan ,if they are really serious to control terrorism in this region .

 

[Solomon2]

Corruption and Injustice in any society is root cause of poverty no one in the world can deny this fact .

The Bushmen of the Kalahari are poor but are not noted for being either corrupt or dishonest.

Perhaps you are thinking of S. Asia only...

 

[waraich66]

The Bushmen of the Kalahari are poor but are not noted for being either corrupt or dishonest.

Perhaps you are thinking of S. Asia only...

I am refering to nations having holy books

 

[Energon]

Excellent post The Patriot.

My two bits...

1. Most of us say that this war on terror has been imposed upon us by the US so it is not our war. Others say that its our war now as Taliban are targeting Pakistani troops and people. If it is not our war, then there are some questions to be answered. Are we mercenaries and killing our own brothers because the US will bomb us to the stone age.

The notion that "before the 9/11 inspired American intervention there was no problem because we lived peacefully with the extremist groups" is inherently flawed. This status quo was heavily pathological and unfeasible in the long term. In exchange for peace these groups operated from Pakistan targeting other nations; it was only a matter of time before those states would trace the problem back to Pakistan and take action. To expect anything short of this is unrealistic.

8. We convinced our people about Jihad in Kashmir and Afghanistan in 80s and 90s. Then we banned them all in 2002. Then they resurfaced with different names. We didn’t do anything for their rehabilitation.

Thank you for bringing up this critical issue which has managed to elude all public discussions. The lack of rehabilitation following the Soviet Afghan conflict is one of the founding reasons for the vicious cycle. The US and other nations are to be blamed here as well, but given that the base of operations was Pakistani soil, it should have been top priority for the government establishment to take action immediately, just as it was done in Ireland, the Balkans and now Sri Lanka. The decision to use them for "strategic depth" instead was a death sentence IMHO.

Recent studies (Arif Jamal's especially) indicate that the initial estimates of the force structures of Kashmir oriented militant groups in Pakistan's eastern regions were wrong because of flawed evaluation methodology. Revised estimates now suggest that the actual number of trained fighters range in the hundreds of thousands, not tens of thousands. Although not all of them are active it still leaves a very important question of what to do with these men?

For Pakistan this essentially boils down to two options: redirect them once more to a low intensity warfare elsewhere and keep them occupied or consider some form of rehabilitation.

IMHO the rehabilitation efforts should have been pursued in earnest the first day this $hitstorm broke out, with massive programs based models that had already been implemented in regions of West Africa(Ishamael Beah being their most famous product) and Ireland. Sri Lanka has made the wise decision to commit to this plan.

Leaving the religious sentiments aside (and all the political baggage that comes with it) I think its time this problem was approached openly as a public health crisis, at least for children and adolescents. The psychological damage involved in indoctrination can be considered a grave mental health issue and should be treated accordingly. Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy has done some excellent work in studying the indoctrination process, some of it was featured in a PBS documentary a few months ago. I do not think Pakistan can recover meaningfully from this disaster unless it pursues something along these lines.

 

[adrenalin]

The biggest myth of them all! This is a sign of the confusion Patriot alludes to.

In reality, terrorism in our backyard is an outcome of two trends.

1. Firstly, the state pursued a misguided policy for 25 years that encouraged the use of mercenary jihadis infused with a pseudo religious ideology to achieve geopolitical goals.

2. Secondly, when the state started turning its back on regional jihad after 2001, the jihadi network jilted and increasingly frustrated, gradually turned its guns on its old master.

Poverty and corruption does create an environment of weak governance, which has helped the jihadi network challenge the writ of the state.

However, the Jihadi/TTP network has never had any interest in fighting poverty and corruption.

After all, there was poverty, injustice and extreme corruption throughout the 90s...why did'nt the jihadi network take up the cause then???

Nice one!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Patriot]

Corruption and Injustice in any society is root cause of poverty no one in the world can deny this fact .

These two factors could drag any society or nation towards poverty and finally society will suffer from terrorism and bloodshed , hunger etc.

In this satuation small terrorist groups will get strength ,TTP and many other groups are active in FATA , similarly their are terrorist groups in Balouchistan and interrior Sindh also exist but less effective due to location and lack of coordination .

After defeat of talaban in Afghanistan , the talaban forces divided into small groups and scaterred in different part of Afghanistan and Pakistan and supporting each other , these groups have divided their operational areas but linked and supporting each other , which is neccessary for their survival.

They are well trained for gurrilla war fare and effectively resisting ISAF forces from last eight years and could continue gurrilla war for many decades.

They have advantage of terrin and harsh weather conditions and strategic location .

More then 5000 Madrasah near Pak- Afghan borader is their breeding ground and they are now financially more stronger then GOP and GOA because they learned how to generat money and get weapons through secret chanels.

Both GOP and GOA are corrupt and wasting public money and totally dependent on US support , i think US should first remove the corrupt regimes from Afghanistan and Pakistan ,if they are really serious to control terrorism in this region .

From where America will bring not-corrupt leaders, and WHY. Isnt it our responsibility.

 

[waraich66]

From where America will bring not-corrupt leaders, and WHY. Isnt it our responsibility.

leadership can not be planted nor imported , but fair election system based on Islamic principles can only bring positive change in country.

First step shall be present corrupt leadership and parties should be banned for election and new assembly can be elected on non party basis by under UN supervission .

Shourah elected by assembly will run the country on Islamic principles.All four provinces shall be merged to one unit and small 25 divisions can be formed for better governance .

Two party democratic system is not suitable for our country.

 

[SecularHumanist]

leadership can not be planted nor imported , but fair election system based on Islamic principles can only bring positive change in country.

First step shall be present corrupt leadership and parties should be banned for election and new assembly can be elected on non party basis by under UN supervission .

Shourah elected by assembly will run the country on Islamic principles.All four provinces shall be merged to one unit and small 25 divisions can be formed for better governance .

Two party democratic system is not suitable for our country.

As you should know by now, everyone does not interpret Islam the same way. Some people believe flogging women is allowed in Islam, some don't. Some people believe the requirement of 4 witnesses for rape is Islam, some don't. Define your Islamic principles. What kind of Islamic laws would there be?

 

[waraich66]

As you should know by now, everyone does not interpret Islam the same way. Some people believe flogging women is allowed in Islam, some don't. Some people believe the requirement of 4 witnesses for rape is Islam, some don't. Define your Islamic principles. What kind of Islamic laws would there be?

All four fiqa and followers of iman jaffar have no major differences on punishment issues.

For example all four fiqa and fiqa jaffaria have no objection on punishments issue in saudi arabia

 

[Solomon2]

leadership can not be planted nor imported , but fair election system based on Islamic principles can only bring positive change in country.

First step shall be present corrupt leadership and parties should be banned for election and new assembly can be elected on non party basis by under UN supervission...

I didn't see anything about the UN in the Koran. How do you defend yourself against those who say that these aren't "Islamic principles" but your own?

Shourah elected by assembly will run the country on Islamic principles.All four provinces shall be merged to one unit and small 25 divisions can be formed for better governance.

Very like Iran's mullahs with a dash of Napoleon added. How could this possibly lead to better governance?

Two party democratic system is not suitable for our country.

Have you considered that maybe you should do something to change that?

 

[waraich66]

I didn't see anything about the UN in the Koran. How do you defend yourself against those who say that these aren't "Islamic principles" but your own?

Their is no difference in islamic principles in muslim ummah.

Very like Iran's mullahs with a dash of Napoleon added. How could this possibly lead to better governance?

Jew Zoinist can buy political leaders but to buy shourah it will be difficult task for them

Have you considered that maybe you should do something to change that?

I am working and more concerned for shariah implementation at international level .

 

[The Patriot]

the thread is getting off track. pl stick to the topic.
thanks

 

[SecularHumanist]

All four fiqa and followers of iman jaffar have no major differences on punishment issues.

For example all four fiqa and fiqa jaffaria have no objection on punishments issue in saudi arabia

Ah! Now I get it. I should have paid more attention to the Saudi flag in your profile. Given that you love Saudi Arabia and shariah law yourself so much, you are prone to defending the shariah loving Taliban and hating the infidel Americans. It all makes sense. No wonder you do so many mental flips to find a way of defending the Taliban and blaming America for everything.

Do you want Pakistan to have the same laws as Saudi Arabia?

 

[TalibanSwatter]

I ran into a cab driver a few days ago who belongs to the Waziristan Mehsud region.

I asked him why his tribal 'cousins' like Hakimullah and co. are busy killing pakistanis.

His reply captured the essence of the warped logic employed by the TTP terrorists and their brainwashed supporters.

He told me that they are fighting the Americans who are attacking them with drones. I asked him why they are not fighting the Americans in Afghanistan, instead of killing pakistanis.

He paused for a second, and then explained that the TTP is fighting the paksitani government because it is not helping the taliban fight the americans.

I then asked him: " Why are the TTP thugs killing ordinary pakistanis including civilians, policemen, and blowing up markets and schools??"

He casually explains that "Ordinary pakistanis are a legitimate target because they are not pressuring the government to stop the US and help the TTP, and thus are indirectly complicit in the US actions against the TTP".

Clearly the guy is not familiar with the concept of cognitive reasoning!...

I told him:" I hope your 'cousins' in TTP reconsider their mind boggling logic or else we are going to kill them all." He grinned and replied.. " You will see..no one can defeat the TTP".

I think this guy is indicative of the level of indoctrination existing within the Mehsud tribe - a sad state of affairs.