Obama says the U.S. will lead the world for the next 100 years. China disagrees.

[Tsilihin]

Obama says the U.S. will lead the world for the next 100 years....

And will end in the summer 15.07.2114 in 06:36:24 AM

 

[Desertfalcon]

Answer my question about your evidence. 60 million or 30 million? Where's your evidence, cowboy?

When it gets to be over 30 million, how much more do you need to prove what a monstrosity communist rule has been? You keep saying, "Where is your evidence?" and yet I have posted two links detailing how scholars, some Chinese, using Chinese records, detail that for example, Mao's atrocities numbered well over the 45 million that died in just a few years of the so called, 'Great Leap Forward'.

I was one of the participants, cowboy. We did believe that democracy was the only medicine to solve China's problems. Then I, after living 20 years in the West, learnt my lessons. US has one standard for its people and allies but behaves like one of your own innovative products, Mafia gangster, on international politics. You ain't better than commies!

So, let me get this straight. Because the USA sends it's military into say, Afghanistan, as a response to the attack of 9-11-01 being launched from there, or because we go into Iraq, at the behest of the United Nations, YOU think that means that Chinese tanks were justified in crushing the pro-democracy movement in your country and justify your support for your blood-soaked communist party and the extinguishing of any movement toward democracy and individual rights in your country? That is truly bizarre reasoning.

 

[Desertfalcon]

I am from Hong Kong, I went to an International school, my teachers and textbooks were from the West.

And so I know that you are clearly lying. Mao made huge mistakes yes, but even Western historians do not claim that the famines were intentional, they were a result of failed policy.

You see, there is a clear difference between failed policies leading to unintentional famine, and cold-blooded murder.

The genocide of 100 million Native Americans for instance, was not a mistake borne out of failed policy, but deliberate genocide for the purposes of stealing land.

The difference is like night and day. One was failed policy leading to unintentional famine, the other was deliberate genocide (based on racist ideas that Native Americans were not humans but rather inhuman "savages") in order to steal land.

You might have an argument is...

1. It were simply a "failed policy". It was not and if your western education didn't tell you that...you were cheated out of a good education. Mao knew exactly what was happening and it was not simply famine. It was brutal and total, repression. he knew exactly what he was doing with his, "hundred flowers" campaign, that was quickly followed by show trials and mass killings. Communism was the failed policy and the same famines occurred in Russia with Soviet authorises claiming it was not their fault. If a parent is so neglectful or even just plain stupid that it results in their child’s death, then they ARE responsible. Mao however, knew exactly what was happening!

2. Although reliable estimates are hard to verify, there was no where near 100 million natives in what would be the United States when European colonists arrived. Most historians usually put the number at between one to two million. There may have been close to 100 million in 'North America', but those figures include not only Canada but Mexico which was a very different story. There, there were huge native populations in very advanced civilizations. In what would be the USA, there were relatively small tribes of hunter-gatherers. Many tribes numbering less than 200 people. Secondly, the vast overwhelming majority of native decline of population occurred not from genocide, but for one simple but tragic reason; disease immunity. Most died from European diseases that they had no immunity for and that European neither understood nor had any cure for themselves. The Indians were also not defenceless nor were all tribes hostile to European-Americans. The largest battles between native tribes and whites only entailed a few hundred men on each side and white Americans, lost two of the largest; Little Big Horn and the Battle of the Wabash.

lol, communist sources, American sources, whichever sources, please read carefully, and consider what you are saying. But then again, you are already wearing coloured lens as these other "experts."

I'm not questioning the number, the acts, or anything like that. I'm not agreeing 100% with it, but at this point, you are pointing at a lion and calling it a duck, I think the truth, if you will, is not really the issue here is it, when you don't even know what you are reading.

But this is natural for you, all the Chinese I talked to have weird views on America too, not necessarily bad or good views, just views that are less than accurate. It stems from being foreign. Biased, and lack of understanding. If you listened to them you would understand what I am feeling now.

So is Gong Xiaoxia in my link and his fellow Chinese scholars also seeing things with American rose-colored glasses? They are Chinese, using Chinese records to document Mao's brutal rule and communist atrocities. Are they looking at a lion and calling it a duck?

 

[senheiser]

100 years is a long time but, for the next 50 years, I would put my money on the US 100%.

Other countries, China and Russia, may match the US in military might, and China may exceed the US in economic might, but the US still rules the minds of people around the world through its media domination. People in China and Russia love to watch and copy American culture, but the reverse is not true.

People in the rest of the world see China and Russia as some strange, foreign powers, but the US is everywhere. People will shout and curse the US, and then promptly shell out their precious money for the honor to eat at McDonalds, or wear Levis, or watch American shows and movies. American policies may be criticized, but American culture and the American dream is liked around the world.

The US may not be able to twist a handful of countries like Russia, China, etc. but it will remain the single most dominant player by a long shot, and no other country will even come close to achieving the same level of global dominance.

yet one country archived it very close. Japan during the 80s to 95 until the crash. Just look at the video game history, the whole video game market was dominated by Japanese. only recently america managed to come back something like in 2007 but before that consoles, arcades were all dominated by japanese games. Everyone knows his first mario or street fighter experience but american games? What games did they had, none they were all garbage?

And then there was anime, anime pretty much destroyed all western cartoons. Since that you could see how western cartoons dropped in production same with comic books, now you see some kind of pixar trend with 3d trash by americans because they know japanese are vastly superior in making animated cartoons so they rather avoid competing with them.

during the 80s europe was flooded with Japanese cartoons, they were especially also designed to appeal to westerners choosing traditional western tales etc.

Japan was able to buy columbia with sony at that time as their nominal economy was really heading towards surpassing america, but then came the crash in 1995.

China is still a developing country but so more advanced they become so more they need to grow in commercial economic sector and therefor bigger media. So maybe china will one day also challenge america, HK is already famous for their films. And so more advanced humanity becomes so easier will linguistic barriers be diminished and so more none english media will grow.

 

[Genesis]

So is Gong Xiaoxia in my link and his fellow Chinese scholars also seeing things with American rose-colored glasses? They are Chinese, using Chinese records to document Mao's brutal rule and communist atrocities. Are they looking at a lion and calling it a duck?

As I have said, coloured lenses. are Americans to be believed when to comes to America? Bush a war criminal, Romney supporting slave labor, Obama should be impeached, and etc. Which are true which are not? War with Ukraine, war in Syria, nukes everywhere, which should be believed?

Fake moon landing, 9/11 conspiracy, pearl harbour plot, and this and that, which are true?

China has the same radical, same crazy, same attention seeking, and same stupid people as everywhere.



I never said CCP wasn't at fault, failed policies are certainly bad, and deserves to be brought to question. However, gang wars were rampant, and those resulted in most of the killings, they were the unforeseen result of policies. Class struggles, are also bad, but they gave Chinese people land, compare to other third world countries, today a Chinese man will never be without home or food, for he has land and a home, regardless of its condition, it's 100x better than other countries slums.

The "trials", gang wars are things taken too far, by the same kind of radicals that wrote your report, except they are on the other side.

As to Mao knew what was happening, maybe, maybe not. You called it murder, murder is genocide, all of Mao's policies are to advance the people's lives, it failed, but the intent is not the same.

 

[Desertfalcon]

lol, communist sources, American sources, whichever sources, please read carefully, and consider what you are saying. But then again, you are already wearing coloured lens as these other "experts."

I'm not questioning the number, the acts, or anything like that. I'm not agreeing 100% with it, but at this point, you are pointing at a lion and calling it a duck, I think the truth, if you will, is not really the issue here is it, when you don't even know what you are reading.

But this is natural for you, all the Chinese I talked to have weird views on America too, not necessarily bad or good views, just views that are less than accurate. It stems from being foreign. Biased, and lack of understanding. If you listened to them you would understand what I am feeling now.

Yah...except in the case of Mao's atrocities, they are not quacks, kooks, and attention getters. They are eyewitnesses, scholars, and peer reviewed papers of major and respected universities, think tanks, and human rights organizations. Heck they are the facts about the long murderous history of communist rule in China that one can find in any reputable encyclopedia, high school or college history book, and not just in "the West". The "birthers, truthers, moon landing" conspiracy nuts are just that; nut-birds and kooks who believe fluoride is a communist conspiracy and the government is shooting microwaves into their brains so wear an aluminium hat! Not so with scholars who have a Harvard chair in History or of Chinese scholars at respected universities and foundations for example, who have painstakingly documented Mao and communist atrocities in China. The facts are pretty easy to find online, you know.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Mao's atrocities numbered well over the 45 million that died in just a few years of the so called, 'Great Leap Forward'.

In the Great leap forward, yes many people died due to "famine", as a result of failed economic policy. It was obviously not Mao's intention, and it caused huge damage to his political career. But despite the enormous mistakes, in the end it was a famine, and it was unintentional.

Quite different from intentional genocide based on racist notions that the 100 million or so Native Americans were "subhuman savages" who were scalped alive, and had their land stolen from them, which is still the case today. And thus the USA was founded, on that stolen and blood soaked land.

Compare the two. One was a famine caused by very poor economic policy, the other was a policy of genocide based on racism, and the stolen land which is still being held today.

The funny thing is, I would be the last member here to advocate for Mao, ask the other Chinese members, I consider Deng Xiaoping to be the best modern Chinese leader. But your twisting of the facts, especially comparing an obviously unintentional famine, to an actual genocide like that of the Native Americans, is just ridiculous.

 

[1000]

You mean the Saddam who invaded his neighbours? Who's army he sent in an invasion of Kuwait that he raped and pillaged? The Saddam who dropped poison gas on his own people? The one who fed his enemies feet first into wood-chippers? Who massacred Kurds and Shias? The one who fired on United Nations forces after he signed a cease fire? You mean the Gaddafi who's embassy staff shot and killed a British policewoman? The Gaddafi who exterminated any who questioned his rule? The Gaddafi who blew an American airliner full of college kids out of the sky, 270 dead in all? Who later blew a French airliner with 107 innocent passengers out of the sky? Who attacked his Muslim neighbour states of Chad and Egypt and plotted the assassination of other Arab leaders in the Middle East?

Yah, I don't think America defamed them. They did that to themselves by their actions, all on their own.

The US doesn't care about Kuwaitis, Kurds, Shia's or anyone else in the region, they didn't care when 500.000 Iraqi children were killed due to their sanctions on medicines and proper food. I guess this shows how much America cares.

After all NATO states supplied Saddam with chemical weaponry, USA provided Saddam a lot of help in the 80's and even decades before Saddam's rise to power the US supported the Baathist coup in Iraq to take down Qasim ( who all Iraqis like ) & supported a coup in Iran against Mossadegh, as a result both these states entered their stage of chaos. All that so it benefits the US global hegemony, does that confirm how much the US cares about anything but their own interests whatever the cost of innocent life will be.

Gaddafi blew up an airliner ? Are you unaware of what the USAF has blown up all around the world, an airliner will be a joke in comparison, but as long as we call the civillians in those air campaigns collateral damage it's ok.

I think it's quite fair to say that the entire Middle East has a dislike for the dirty games the west have played here. You will find certain Middle Easterners thanking America for something that benefitted them personally like Kurds these days, Gulf Arabs since their alliance with the US kept them safe. But none of that changes the facts.

 

[rockstar08]

i didnt know obama can troll too

 

[Desertfalcon]

The US doesn't care about Kuwaitis, Kurds, Shia's or anyone else in the region, they didn't care when 500.000 Iraqi children were killed due to their sanctions on medicines and proper food. I guess this shows how much America cares.

After all NATO states supplied Saddam with chemical weaponry, USA provided Saddam a lot of help in the 80's and even decades before Saddam's rise to power the US supported the Baathist coup in Iraq to take down Qasim ( who all Iraqis like ) & supported a coup in Iran against Mossadegh, as a result both these states entered their stage of chaos. All that so it benefits the US global hegemony, does that confirm how much the US cares about anything but their own interests whatever the cost of innocent life will be.

Gaddafi blew up an airliner ? Are you unaware of what the USAF has blown up all around the world, an airliner will be a joke in comparison, but as long as we call the civillians in those air campaigns collateral damage it's ok.

I think it's quite fair to say that the entire Middle East has a dislike for the dirty games the west have played here. You will find certain Middle Easterners thanking America for something that benefitted them personally like Kurds these days, Gulf Arabs since their alliance with the US kept them safe. But none of that changes the facts.

Ah, yet another poster who rails on and on about how everything is the West's fault and how evil NATO countries were regarding Iraq. So evil....that you moved to one to enjoy it's freedom, its democracy, it's security, it's prosperity. You guys have absolutely zero credibility with me. You know who else didn't give a damn about the plight of the Kurds, Shias, and everyone else in Iraq? You. Instead of living off the freedoms in Europe that those dreaded Westerners have built for centuries while you bad-mouth them, why don't you be a man and go back to your homeland and fight the good fight, because buddy, while you've been sucking off the Western teet, here is a list of my countrymen who will never see their families again, while fighting to build a new Iraq based on representative government and respect for religious and ethnic minorities. Aren't happy with the way it turned out? Well then how 'bout you stop kibitzing the impossibly difficult task they had to accomplish while enjoying the Western freedom they provided for you and get your butt on a plane back to Iraq and act like a real man and take responsibility for your own country so American men don't have to again!

 

[The SC]

By hoping for the deaths of billions of people? Seriously?

Why do you want to hurt innocent people, just because you don't like the policies of their governments?

When you advocate the murder of billions of women and children, tell me why should they be blamed and be punished for government policies that they had NOTHING to do with?

The guy is talking about the criminlas of the earth, the ones who really kill women and kids on a daily basis, and you come here with your morality, talking about other people who have elected democratically those criminals and back them all the way by sending armies to ravage other's countries as innocent people.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The guy is talking about the criminlas of the earth, the ones who really kill women and kids on a daily basis, and you come here with your morality, talking about other people who have elected democratically those criminals and back them all the way by sending armies to ravage other's countries as innocent people.

That's not what he said, his original post was deleted.

He said that he wants the USA, China, Russia and EU to wipe each other off the map completely, thus killing billions of innocent people who had nothing to do with government policy.

 

[The SC]

Ah, yet another poster who rails on and on about how everything is the West's fault and how evil NATO countries were regarding Iraq. So evil....that you moved to one to enjoy it's freedom, its democracy, it's security, it's prosperity. You guys have absolutely zero credibility with me. You know who else didn't give a damn about the plight of the Kurds, Shias, and everyone else in Iraq? You. Instead of living off the freedoms in Europe that those dreaded Westerners have built for centuries while you bad-mouth them, why don't you be a man and go back to your homeland and fight the good fight, because buddy, while you've been sucking off the Western teet, here is a list of my countrymen who will never see their families again, while fighting to build a new Iraq based on representative government and respect for religious and ethnic minorities. Aren't happy with the way it turned out? Well then how 'bout you stop kibitzing the impossibly difficult task they had to accomplish while enjoying the Western freedom they provided for you and get your butt on a plane back to Iraq and act like a real man and take responsibility for your own country so American men don't have to again!

You are talking like a wannabe God himself, I bet you grand parents have immigrated to the US too, why you do not go back from where you came.
Iraq enjoyed a high standard of living for all its population, the kurds were used by the west Against Syria Turkey, Iran and Iraq alike.It is your authorities USrael that has staged the 9/11 affair and has given te green light to Saddam to invade Kuwait, that is why you went there not for democracy or the kurds. The same with afghanistan. What did you achieve apart from death and destruction going on in those lands up till now with daily bombings and deaths.
And you are proud of your failures!?

 

[sweetgrape]

I don't think most mainland Chinese have any idea that the communist party of China under Mao, (Which still rules there.), killed some 60 million of their brother Chinese and was responsible for the worst mass murder in all of human history.

You don't think? hehe.

Yes Mao should responsible for his fault, but here, do you also accept that you American should be responsilbe for many people died because your invasion and sanction and other action you did on them? you think you are better than Mao?

You mean the Saddam who invaded his neighbours? Who's army he sent in an invasion of Kuwait that he raped and pillaged? The Saddam who dropped poison gas on his own people? The one who fed his enemies feet first into wood-chippers? Who massacred Kurds and Shias? The one who fired on United Nations forces after he signed a cease fire? You mean the Gaddafi who's embassy staff shot and killed a British policewoman? The Gaddafi who exterminated any who questioned his rule? The Gaddafi who blew an American airliner full of college kids out of the sky, 270 dead in all? Who later blew a French airliner with 107 innocent passengers out of the sky? Who attacked his Muslim neighbour states of Chad and Egypt and plotted the assassination of other Arab leaders in the Middle East?

Yah, I don't think America defamed them. They did that to themselves by their actions, all on their own.

Did you get my point? I mean, yes, they made bad thing, but you America also not clean, you just use these for your evil motive, OK.

If you are that good, why put sanction on these countries for more than 10 years, many people died because your action directly or Indirectly, should say all the death is your American decision?

 

[The SC]

That's not what he said, his original post was deleted.

He said that he wants the USA, China, Russia and EU to wipe each other off the map completely, thus killing billions of innocent people who had nothing to do with government policy.

Well, the US Russia and the EU can wipe each other off the world map if they want. China does not have the same history of invasions and colonialism and its system is mostly based on fairness, so it has nothing to do with them apart from commerce.