Obama’s South Asia policy

[nitesh]

Pleasee! we certainly know what we are capable of and not capable off. hardly any comments needed on that.

On a side note you guys should then prepare for a war.

This is not about capability, the point is simple US has paid some money for some purpose, that purpose is not getting done. rather then money is getting wasted. So US is demanding the accountability. If pakistan doesn't like that then it should stop everything like stopping every relation with US. but is it practical that is my question.

 

[BATMAN]

All of this has been taken out of perspective. Obama is merely reiterating an established fact that Pakistan is diverting US funds provided to fight terror in west Pakistan to build up against India. It does not mean Pakistan is plotting a war.

This is all well and good. But the US is donating funds so that Pakistan can fight the militancy. If the PA and the PAF wants to tackle a percieved Indian threat, then they are more than welcome to buy anything they want at full price with their own funds; I don't think there's an embargo in place.

Dude it is Pakistani tax payers money. Aid is the word used by US for the reimbursement which US is legally bound to pay Pakistan back for the expenses incurred in mobilizing troops and what we are receiving from US is only 10% of the total amount we spend.
Since the regime change US is conspiring to have a free ride.

 

[nitesh]

.

Rohit please don't start it again pl keep the things objective.

 

[IceCold]

This is not about capability, the point is simple US has paid some money for some purpose, that purpose is not getting done. rather then money is getting wasted. So US is demanding the accountability. If pakistan doesn't like that then it should stop everything like stopping every relation with US. but is it practical that is my question.

Dude first get your facts straight before telling us what to do. The money paid to us is for the logistic support that we are providing to the americans and not free as you made it sound like. There is no honey moon going on with the US. They use are bases and airspace and for that they pay us. Simple. And we certainly have no moral duty to provide US with what we do with those funds. And as for stoping aids, since you missed the part, let me assure you that Pakistan has repeatedly said to the US, you wana stop the aid fine do it, but go find another ally. Like i said we hear this **** from all over the place is because our pathetic leadership of liberals dont smack back. Obama is just a senator for now he hasnt become the president, and even then our PM certainly felt the need to meet him Things like these dont help in establishing anything from our side but that does not mean we cant. And that is exactly why i wish for hardliners to form the next government.

 

[nitesh]

Dude first get your facts straight before telling us what to do. The money paid to us is for the logistic support that we are providing to the americans and not free as you made it sound like. There is no honey moon going on with the US. They use are bases and airspace and for that they pay us. Simple. And we certainly have no moral duty to provide US with what we do with those funds. And as for stoping aids, since you missed the part, let me assure you that Pakistan has repeatedly said to the US, you wana stop the aid fine do it, but go find another ally. Like i said we hear this **** from all over the place is because our pathetic leadership of liberals dont smack back. Obama is just a senator for now he hasnt become the president, and even then our PM certainly felt the need to meet him Things like these dont help in establishing anything from our side but that does not mean we cant. And that is exactly why i wish for hardliners to form the next government.

See Ice, I agree with your point that no sovereign country can be hold accountable for the aid given. If US does feel that it is not used properly they are free to stop it. And if pakistan does feel that the things are correct then it has right to protest. I think he might be trying to point out towards a possible diversion of funds towards conventional arms which are not useful for WoT, nothing else.

 

[Muradk]

Obama's bombshell: Pak plotting war on India
Washington: Accusing Pakistan of misusing the massive American aid to fight the war on terror, Democratic nominee for the US Presidential election Barack Obama, in a sensational comment, has said Islamabad was using these funds for "preparing for a war against India".


Senator Obama vowed to hold Islamabad accountable for the massive military aid it has received from Washington if he is elected to the White House. He said his administration will increase pressure on the Pakistan to come to terms with terrorist safe havens along its northern border with Afghanistan.


"What we can do is stay focused on Afghanistan and put more pressure on the Pakistanis," Senator Obama said in an interview with Fox News.


He noted that the US was providing Pakistan military aid "without having enough strings attached".


"So they're (Pakistan) using the military aid...Pakistan...they're preparing for a war against India," Senator Obama said.

Obama's bombshell: Pak plotting war on India

Problem with both countries right now Pakistan and US is who to choose all canditates are evil so choose the lesser evil. Obama thinks that Pakistan and india have gone to war mulitple times so they will go for it again , he doesn't realise that both countries have back channels to keep them from going to war. What happen on LOC is always somekind of misdunderstanding its not like I wake up in the morning and tell me wife hi babe I going to have me and Indian for breakfast. Its doesn't work like that.
Democrats have always been anti pakistan that is why I said say good bye to Block 52 and start looking for other alternatives , UAE and KSA both are willing to give us a huge chunk of $$$$ to buy fighter planes. Why Wait?

 

[EagleEyes]

Obama is playing politics while these comments have been taken out of the context by the Indian media (where we going to use F-16s against). Pakistan is fighting the war on terror with its own money. It is a common knowledge.. while the funds allocated for the military aid is being used for "military aid". Military aid so far is not tied up with "money for fighting terrorism". Pakistan in return receives cheap upgrades, cheap planes, cheap equipment and all the latest military goods through the military aid where Pakistan doesn't have to take the money and give them back. No point there. Also, part of the military aid does go towards fighting terrorism. In the end, there is no issue.. just a plain propaganda and the authorities concerned understand it. And there will be no solution for this problem in an Indian point of view.

If Pakistan Armed Forces believe they need something.. they will get it. So better get over it.

 

[Energon]

Do you have proofs that it was diverted ???

Or Mr Obama has proofs ???

Yes. There is proof in the form of DoD and congressional findings that have occurred over the period of at least 2 years. There have been discussions on these before including the articles related to them in other threads. Obama by no means is saying anything new. He is merely repeating the results from prior reports.

Dude it is Pakistani tax payers money. Aid is the word used by US for the reimbursement which US is legally bound to pay Pakistan back for the expenses incurred in mobilizing troops and what we are receiving from US is only 10% of the total amount we spend.
Since the regime change US is conspiring to have a free ride.

I have no idea what you're talking about. The US is reimbursing Pakistan to tackle militancy within its own borders; this is a rather unique arrangement. The US isn't "legally bound" to do anything. Pakistan is being paid to fight militancy so that the state can stay stable, maintain an outward appearance of sovereignty, while the threat to the US can potentially be reduced, and most of all to assuage guilt for having funded the mujahideen in the first place.

It is a common knowledge.. while the funds allocated for the military aid is being used for "military aid". Military aid so far is not tied up with "money for fighting terrorism".

I don't know why so many people say this. The military aid is directly linked to Pakistan's assistance in the war on terror; if it weren't, and the US was just feeling overly generous then this entire issue would have never come up, particularly in congress. Making highly stringent EUAs makes the recipient government (especially a military government) look bad in the eyes of its own people, so there's some amount of leeway given with an understanding of the eventual objective. This however does not mean that the US is giving money to Pakistan to do with it what they please, mostly because there is absolutely no incentive to do so (in the realm of defence).

This whole thing is an example of poor journalism. Obama's statement has been taken out of context for the sake of sensationalism. Also, nobody seems to be talking about the other underlying problem here: the influence exerted by the defence lobby. It wasn’t too difficult to foresee that the F-16s were going to be used in a build up against India, but it is also important to see how Lockheed Martin’s government contacts helped push this deal through anyways.

 

[Rohit]

US will put pressure on Pakistan to fight the taliban, even if the aid is stopped.

So the best bet for pakistan is to make efficient use of this money to rout out terrorists from its soil.

All this in the best interests of Pakistan and the entire world.

 

[was]

he is saying every thing for be the president
where india is one of the worlds largest arms importer pakistan only buying 18 f-16s and upgrading 80s old f-16 is plotting war against india.
if obama becomes president bad times for pakistan
i really hope paf has already alternative sources for f-16

 

[Kasrkin]

This is not about capability, the point is simple US has paid some money for some purpose, that purpose is not getting done. rather then money is getting wasted. So US is demanding the accountability. If pakistan doesn't like that then it should stop everything like stopping every relation with US. but is it practical that is my question.

Well I would like to get something straight. American and Pakistani leaders have always said that this American-Pakistani alliance is more than just about the War on Terror. Furthermore the Americans have repeatedly said that this time they are with us for good, and genuinely want to help a growing Muslim democracy. Heck, some even said that they were story about Americas short sited policies in the past. They said they want to help us so that we can protect ourselves and not just kill their enemies (like we did with the Soviets). So if this alliance helps us get cheaper weapons, why is that such a problem for you? Al-Qaeda and Taliban are not the only God damn bad guys in the world, Pakistan faced threats before and will face threats long after them. So this criticism does not really stand up to any moral or technical or legal scrutiny, particularly given who its coming from. If we had half decent or patriotic civilian leaders, they would have made this fact blindingly obvious, but it suits them to sit around and blame the 'military dictator'.

So like someone has already said, more than 60% of that 10 billion dollar 'aid' is for refurbishment for Pakistan's military operations in the tribal areas. With the rest we can buy all the cool toys we like, and frankly it’s not our problem if Mr Obama or any other upstart (ahum Indian media) 'feels' that these toys can be deployed and utilized in case of any military show down against India. Because Frankly that’s exactly what the Indians did; they got their ***** handed to them in 1962 by the Chinese and then seeing as it was communist China that did this, arms started flooding into India from all over the world including the US(despite India being firmly in with the communist camp). And then 3 years later, valaaa 90% of these new toys intended for the Chinese were deployed and USED against Pakistan, a staunch US ALLY! Just like what India fancies itself these days, only the situation is reversed. So point is, boohoo cry me a river...

In the 10 years that we got that 10 billion dollars from the US, and handed them hundreds of high level terrorists, etc...Pakistan has spent close to 80 billion dollars on defence herself. So its not like the Pakistan military relies completely on American aid for its development.

An alliance with the US should help us in aspects other than the WoT, otherwise everything the Americans have said about being concerned for Pakistan, about wanting to be there for Pakistan, would be bullshit. We are their allies, we have bled for their mistakes and still are. Ofcourse we are gonna buy cheap military equipment if we can, and use it against WHATEVER security threat we perceive as being the greatest to our people and our country. I admit thats the Taliban right now, but that is also only for us to decide. That being said, Pakistan still needs to keep a guard up against India which is militarizing at an incredibly astounding rate, but some how it is always the modest Pakistani arms procurements that catch the headlines.

Americans have spent hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars on their own WoT efforts in the region. What do they really expect Pakistan to come up with the miracle with these 10 billion? This is just nonsense arm twisting which our stupid population is ....stupid enough to swallow wholesome. If they think that we are stabbing them in the back or that the whole WoT for us is some elaborate subterfuge then they can always completely stop the money. But the fact is that they cant and they won’t because as much as Pakistan needs America, they need us too. And one more thing; its the Americans who are supposed to be helping us out with the WoT, not you Indians, its their money and not yours(technically its ours now but you know what I mean) so let them decide if its worth it or not okay? And for once just give it a break...

 

[nitesh]

^^
see the point is simple no need to go around here and there. US is wedging war on terror. and US is going for elections. So the democrat nominee is questioning the money spent is getting used properly or not? If he feels that it is not used properly, if he becomes president he has the right to suspend it. And if he suspends the aid pakistan has right to react to it. Nothing else. But seeing that this might irk US further what exactly is the real option GoP is having.

 

[dr.umer]

Yes. There is proof in the form of DoD and congressional findings that have occurred over the period of at least 2 years. There have been discussions on these before including the articles related to them in other threads. Obama by no means is saying anything new. He is merely repeating the results from prior reports.

I have no idea what you're talking about. The US is reimbursing Pakistan to tackle militancy within its own borders; this is a rather unique arrangement. The US isn't "legally bound" to do anything. Pakistan is being paid to fight militancy so that the state can stay stable, maintain an outward appearance of sovereignty, while the threat to the US can potentially be reduced, and most of all to assuage guilt for having funded the mujahideen in the first place.

I don't know why so many people say this. The military aid is directly linked to Pakistan's assistance in the war on terror; if it weren't, and the US was just feeling overly generous then this entire issue would have never come up, particularly in congress. Making highly stringent EUAs makes the recipient government (especially a military government) look bad in the eyes of its own people, so there's some amount of leeway given with an understanding of the eventual objective. This however does not mean that the US is giving money to Pakistan to do with it what they please, mostly because there is absolutely no incentive to do so (in the realm of defence).

This whole thing is an example of poor journalism. Obama's statement has been taken out of context for the sake of sensationalism. Also, nobody seems to be talking about the other underlying problem here: the influence exerted by the defence lobby. It wasn’t too difficult to foresee that the F-16s were going to be used in a build up against India, but it is also important to see how Lockheed Martin’s government contacts helped push this deal through anyways.

Believe it or not but please don't repeat same thing again & again.

You have been answered here.

Originally posted by IceCold
Dude first get your facts straight before telling us what to do. The money paid to us is for the logistic support that we are providing to the americans and not free as you made it sound like. There is no honey moon going on with the US. They use are bases and airspace and for that they pay us. Simple. And we certainly have no moral duty to provide US with what we do with those funds. And as for stoping aids, since you missed the part, let me assure you that Pakistan has repeatedly said to the US, you wana stop the aid fine do it, but go find another ally. Like i said we hear this **** from all over the place is because our pathetic leadership of liberals dont smack back. Obama is just a senator for now he hasnt become the president, and even then our PM certainly felt the need to meet him Things like these dont help in establishing anything from our side but that does not mean we cant. And that is exactly why i wish for hardliners to form the next government.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The majority of the ten billion delivered to Pakistan so far has been reimbursement for expenses incurred by Pakistan in conducting operations in FATA and providing logistical support for the US.

There is no question about it being 'diverted' since it is money paid for services rendered. Questions have been raised about how accounting procedures for the expense claims were not thorough- but that is an issues that the US has to resolve on its side to satisfy its own GAO that everything is aboveboard.

On the issue of 'economic aid being diverted to military programs' - that is unsubstantiated, and the economic aid segment of the aid delivered so far is minuscule, and again, has no conditions attached to how it will be used (budgetary support I believe - whatever that means).

Pakistan's threat matrix requires that it maintains a certain degree of conventional deterrence against India - fighting the WoT has diverted resources from the Eastern Theater to the West, and it is therefore not possible to demand that Pakistan simply reduce its capabilities on the Eastern Front to help out the US, while not at least qualitatively improving those capabilities.


Also, thread title being changed, since it is a gross misstatement - Indian media going nuts as usual...

 

[dr.umer]

Do you have proofs that it was diverted ???

Or Mr Obama has proofs ???

If you come up with proofs then good and well otherwise such statments are result of upset stomach being propagated by elements to get attention during election times, while the Likes of Indian media spin such statments without proofs to sail its own boat through own blunders.

There are no proofs with them, if they were having any proof, they would have delievered it by now.

Obama is barking cheap to get some more political attention. But thanks to sick, Pakistan phobic indian media, context of the story is completely changed as you can see from the headline.