NYT: The Specter of Caste in Silicon Valley

[Shantanu_Left]

What is happening here? I just went through 6 pages. Its all over the place...

Lol.
Thats not hard to understand.....
Only word i did not know above was zihaal and makun. And first part doesn't make sense... Heard the song by Rahat Fateh Ali Khan multiple time. If one has good vocabulary of Urdu, one can probably understand it......
Though i had to ask my father about few words. People in older generations still know some persian. My father was taught in School. My grandfathers maternal and paternal both could. Hell its still one of the compulsory subject in some schools in Punjab, i mean there is a choice between Arabic and Persian after grade 5.

Between are these jibes at us really necessary ...

I was kidding. I do follow the meaning as I had read the original Amir Khusrow poetry long ago. Will have to check the Rahat Fateh Ali Khan version.

We use a saying...."haath kangan ko arsi kya...parhe likhay ko Farsi kya" (any educated person can learn Farsi if they so desire). I am already saturated with my multi-lingual capabilities but if there was space for one more, it would be Farsi.

Please avoid the sexual references, @Shantanu_Left.

Women are not bitches, and they don't have to please me. Not even have to please you.

It was a typo: I assure everyone. It was a typo! Not to argue that it wasn't a code violation; regretfully mind the error

That is what Kanhaiya Kumar and comrades mean when they say they want azadi from. Not from Brahmins the human beings but that oppressive socio-economic structure unfortunately built by the Brahmin-led social hierarchy system.



Excellent !



Then the RSS should have no objection to work with the Bhim Army and the progressive former students of JNU.



Then the neo, private IT industry of India which doesn't follow the Quota / Reservation system should have given an Indian operating system and microprocessor to the world, what with the hundreds of thousands of meritorious workers in it.

The simple reason that ISRO is behind is that it wasn't ambitious from the start, preferring to be happy with satellite launches. Contrast with SpaceX which from the start aimed to make humans multi-planetary with Mars as the first goal.

Brother you're on the right track with your political alignment. Proud of you.

 

[KhanBaba2]

Years ago, I was having a conversation with a Sanghi...er...um...nationalist from India, in the US and he said that the reservation system in India has made it impossible for upper castes to survive in India, so that is why they were "forced" to migrate to the US.

I am sure you heard of a lot of reasons for migration over the years, but have you heard this one?

I have a friend who is a Dalit. He hated the reservation and wanted to find out exactly how far he could go without those crutches. He too emigrated to the US. He is doing pretty well for himself.

The excuse of your 'nationalist' from India is of course fake. The Brahmins that emigrate to the US are generally not those that would have taken government jobs.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

tmi man, TMI !

why would you even get to the 'final destination' if the way to it was so fraught with such sensory unpleasantness ?

surely you weren't expecting a smooth landing and a nice stay

also, that's kinda racist.. not cool.

code ka kya hua ? [/QUOTE}

As expected. This is what happens when you let your guard down and trust any Hindutva supporter. Sure I have a predilection for coloured remarks and it was entirely my fault. But you really led me on to quote "examples".

It's not possible to talk to you as equals, as you're all ripe for dirty tricks. Of course it's my fault, but one should not engage in any kind of fun activity with the Sanghi brigade. You lot just don't deserve it.

Same goes with the Indian men who often ask me to accompany and show them the "famous nightspots". They all want to drink and party, and engage in sinful activity. But they want to fire from someone else's shoulder.

When you're going to sin, you shouldn't moral pontificate at the same time. It's sheer hypocrisy; that is why so many clubs deny entry to Indian men. You all have set a very low bar. I am sorry but all this is generally true. Very few gems, mostly Indian men are not worthy of any friendly bonding.

What is happening here? I just went through 6 pages. Its all over the place...

Lol.
Thats not hard to understand.....
Only word i did not know above was zihaal and makun. And first part doesn't make sense... Heard the song by Rahat Fateh Ali Khan multiple time. If one has good vocabulary of Urdu, one can probably understand it......
Though i had to ask my father about few words. People in older generations still know some persian. My father was taught in School. My grandfathers maternal and paternal both could. Hell its still one of the compulsory subject in some schools in Punjab, i mean there is a choice between Arabic and Persian after grade 5.

Between are these jibes at us really necessary ...

I can assure you it was not our aim but regret any misunderstanding. True, good music and poetry knows no borders and we intend to keep it that way on this forum.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

SpaceX is not so much a pure capitalist development but more to do with, and I quote Elon Musk :

You are talking about the intentions of SpaceX and its ultimate goal but I'm saying SpaceX itself is still part of the capitalist system of USA. It's a private organisation.

Just today was a thread about India's Mukesh Ambani being the world's 6th richest person. And India is the world's most capitalist society. So why is there no Indian SpaceX ? Why doesn't Mukesh Ambani promise a Mars settlement somewhere in the mid 2030s ?

Yes, I agree India has underperformed till now, but demanding Mukesh Ambani to promise some Mars settlement is not the way to go. People have different dreams and ambitions and imposing Elon Musk's dreams and ambitions on Mukesh Ambani doesn't seem correct.

I commented just because I felt that you downplayed ISRO's achievements a bit but on the other hand, I still believe that having huge expectations from any person/organization is not in any way bad. That's how you push yourself. If you would've compared ISRO and SpaceX while talking to an ISRO employee, I'm sure he would've taken you positively.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

You really have to talk to the dalits here to get a feeling of what they go through. Sure there is no violence here, but most of it is silent discrimination and avoidance...like you do not belong here, you are not one of us.

That's why I am not comfortable in India outside the cosmopolitan areas in big cities. You step into a Tier-2 city like Ahmedabad (it's a backward hole tbh, have you been there?), and in any friend circle the first thing they will ask you is: "aap by caste kya ho?" As someone who's never been enrolled into the Hindu gotra system and by all intents and purposes an outcaste, it's painful for me to answer those stupid questions. The caste system had never bothered me until I got old enough.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

It was a typo: I assure everyone. It was a typo! Not to argue that it wasn't a code violation; regretfully mind the error

Why don't you edit/delete those comments if you really feel bad about it? It would also mean that you are going on the right track.

 

[xeuss]

I have a friend who is a Dalit. He hated the reservation and wanted to find out exactly how far he could go without those crutches. He too emigrated to the US. He is doing pretty well for himself.

The excuse of your 'nationalist' from India is of course fake. The Brahmins that emigrate to the US are generally not those that would have taken government jobs.

Of course it is fake.

As far as your dalit friend goes, keep in mind the exceptional will always succeed no matter what their background is. No one can stop the exceptional. The reservation system is for the average members of a certain segment of society. They need the "crutches" of the government to succeed.

By and large, the reservation system is a success in India. We must commend the initiative and foresight of those that initiated it, and condemn those that seek to weaken or eliminate it.

--------------------

Just posting this since it is relevant to the topic at hand...sort of a response from Yashica to dharmic dharmi

https://twitter.com/x/status/1283462048781864964

 

[letsrock]

I admire this wonderful role model of yours.

Indeed she is a MODEL MINORITY in the Trump Administration, the pride of Indian diaspora in America. She must have done a great job lobbying on behalf of Indian-Americans in America. Hopefully many of her relatives from Andhra Pradesh were able to abuse the US immigration system and be successful in their American dream.

Of course it doesn't matter that in her ancestral home of India, this same lady supports the Narendra Modi administration and their selective genocide, disenfranchisement, and vilification campaign against Indian Muslims who are legal citizens of India.

The "real" indian shantanu has no trouble villifying a south indian state of andhra pradesh. Like most south indian states they neither impose their language on others neither leach on delhi taxes - instead they are sucked for taxes and insulted for their language. They try to get ahead with what they got - and they usually go to gulf or usa for careers because delhi or mumbai dont have much of doors open for them.

Now i got no problem with this - indians are by no imagination one nation and they cant stand each other. Except when i say india is fake the same "real" indian gets his knickers in a twist. By the way Neomi Rao is a parsi another honorary brahmin caste in india.

I have a friend who is a Dalit. He hated the reservation and wanted to find out exactly how far he could go without those crutches. He too emigrated to the US. He is doing pretty well for himself.

The excuse of your 'nationalist' from India is of course fake. The Brahmins that emigrate to the US are generally not those that would have taken government jobs.

Reservation in india is not a crutch. Is there seriously "merit" in brahmins ? look at how they manage places where they are bosses. Take a look at varanasi where you find a brahmin on every step of the ghats. It is filthy beyond imagination - poverty, uncleanliness, filth, exploitation, curses, half burnt dead bodies abound.

Reservation is just one concession to provide representation to a community which was seen as "untouchable" (while their women were routinely raped) by a horrible society which is a scourge of humanity.

That's why I am not comfortable in India outside the cosmopolitan areas in big cities. You step into a Tier-2 city like Ahmedabad (it's a backward hole tbh, have you been there?), and in any friend circle the first thing they will ask you is: "aap by caste kya ho?" As someone who's never been enrolled into the Hindu gotra system and by all intents and purposes an outcaste, it's painful for me to answer those stupid questions. The caste system had never bothered me until I got old enough.

Seriously "cosmopolitan" mumbai ? the same mumbai where meat eaters have to move heaven and earth to get rentals in some of the nicest areas? the same mumbai where shiv sena started anti-tamil riots and moved on to anti-hindi movements? the same mumbai which has seen tremendous communal riots ?. And you really expect people to believe your story that there is some cosmopolitan "real" india and you are its representative.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

The "real" indian shantanu has no trouble villifying a south indian state of andhra pradesh. Like most south indian states they neither impose their language on others neither leach on delhi taxes - instead they are sucked for taxes and insulted for their language. They try to get ahead with what they got - and they usually go to gulf or usa for careers because delhi or mumbai dont have much of doors open for them.

Now i got no problem with this - indians are by no imagination one nation and they cant stand each other. Except when i say india is fake the same "real" indian gets his knickers in a twist. By the way Neomi Rao is a parsi another honorary brahmin caste in india.

Stop trying to project me as an anti-South Indian. I'm getting sick of your lies and exaggerations now.

I'm not even a proper Hindu: take your issue with the followers of the caste system, which happen to be abundant in South India. I think it was Vivekananda who once described Kerala as a "lunatic asylum of castes".

Seriously "cosmopolitan" mumbai ? the same mumbai where meat eaters have to move heaven and earth to get rentals in some of the nicest areas? the same mumbai where shiv sena started anti-tamil riots and moved on to anti-hindi movements? the same mumbai which has seen tremendous communal riots ?. And you really expect people to believe your story that there is some cosmopolitan "real" india and you are its representative.

It was a different world in the 80's and 90's when I was raised in that city. It was called BOMBAY, these insular Marathis renamed that place to Mumbai. It wasn't even part of Maharashtra until 1960, when many of their people got killed by police fire (there's a place called Flora Mountain). And voila, Bombay becomes a part of their linguistic state.

I don't have issues with any people, Marathi or otherwise. But the Shiv Sena goons are number 1 a$$holes. They charge extortion money called hafta from anyone who wants to set up a business: and they want you to speak Marathi. Screw them: I studied at an ICSE school where Marathi was a compulsary subject between 5th to 9th grades. Guess what, I still don't speak a single word of that language (actually, I do speak a little but I don't like being forced to do something against my will).


---

Anyway, I digress. I am not supposed to be talking to you., I don't hate South Indians, Marathis, Bengalis, or whatever. Or maybe I hate everyone equally. All Indians hate me, so I can take hatred from a few Pakistanis like you (but I have doubts. I think you're a South Indian.)

 

[Mad Scientist 2.0]

Hindus and muslims all are involved in persecution of dalits .they all consider themselves above chamars in caste hiararchy. Same situation is i pakistan , kammi kamin chura, chamar , masihis and other lower castes are treated as low caste rajils .

Irony is more than 75 percent muslims originated from dalits in India. So your statement is invalid. Also there is little discrimination among muslims however that does not negate there is not infact caste problem is prevalent among all religions in India but it is least among muslims.

Good, nobody should hate people based on where they were born.

What makes them the "best", though ? apart from being brahmins, of course ?


Good, so am I.

and so is the RSS, apparently.


Interesting, might look into it.


the Hukou system ?

read something on it the other day, a lot of SE Asian countries follow a version, or their own version of it, often titled similarly. It's all over the place, in Korea and Japan even.


They haven't, no society has. The Europeans, to an extent maybe.. as has their outpost, the USA. Advanced societies.. we'll get there eventually but it can't be forced.

what is with this Brahmin hate though ? I happen to be one lol.. never wore a janaeu, growing up, nobody ever mentioned caste anything to me.. only know mine through going to Tauji's funeral.. where that 'gotra' stuff was mentioned. Cousin married a muslim, i found me a christian girl.. nobody cares. (muslim thing didn't last, but that was for matters not related in any way to religion)

this caste thing is on it's way out, it'll be gone in the next couple decades max.. and gone organically.

irrational lest wing hatred seeds right wing entrenchment <- this is what's basically going on right now.

No wonder the hatred you have shows the hatred you people I am baffled to see the marriages worked.

 

[cloud4000]

To be honest I don’t like working for many Indian managers for this reason. If it’s not caste it’s about something else. I’m talking from experience. It’s hard to avoid Indians if you work in IT. There’s also a tension between native born Indians and Indians who were born and raised in US.

 

[letsrock]

Stop trying to project me as an anti-South Indian. I'm getting sick of your lies and exaggerations now.

I'm not even a proper Hindu: take your issue with the followers of the caste system, which happen to be abundant in South India. I think it was Vivekananda who once described Kerala as a "lunatic asylum of castes".


It was a different world in the 80's and 90's when I was raised in that city. It was called BOMBAY, these insular Marathis renamed that place to Mumbai. It wasn't even part of Maharashtra until 1960, when many of their people got killed by police fire (there's a place called Flora Mountain). And voila, Bombay becomes a part of their linguistic state.

I don't have issues with any people, Marathi or otherwise. But the Shiv Sena goons are number 1 a$$holes. They charge extortion money called hafta from anyone who wants to set up a business: and they want you to speak Marathi. Screw them: I studied at an ICSE school where Marathi was a compulsary subject between 5th to 9th grades. Guess what, I still don't speak a single word of that language (actually, I do speak a little but I don't like being forced to do something against my will).
---

Anyway, I digress. I am not supposed to be talking to you., I don't hate South Indians, Marathis, Bengalis, or whatever. Or maybe I hate everyone equally. All Indians hate me, so I can take hatred from a few Pakistanis like you (but I have doubts. I think you're a South Indian.)

Well your opinions make you a full indian - the contempt you have for insular marathis, mind their own business type south indians and the silence you have against the very concept of india which is simply an imposition qualifies you to be an indian par excellence. And quoting that racist joker swami vivekananda kinda seals the deal. You are really no different from a bhakth - they are exactly same - contempt for "locals", fans of vivekanada, great beleivers in idea of eternal india built on blood of kashmiris and humiliation of others.

Its just that you think it is not cool or nice to be identified as one. They have the same thoughts but you are just a little refined because you click your tongue in sympathy for plight of muslims as this forum has many of them.

I can write page on each of the topic that was raised. But let me stick to Mumbai. THe fact you think the destruction of city is due to shiv sena and not india shows your ignorance. Shiv sena was set up in part with encouragement from congress to break the unionized labor of mumbai along ethnic lines. congress was ofcourse funded by locak industrialists. Atleast shiv sena now grew out of it and they actually have some genuine love for city. India doesnt.

IN 1947 Mumbai had no competition in whole of asia including Tokyo which was reduced to rubble. THe city had excellent infrastructure, organized and very well aware and therefore skilled labor, an international exposure and connectivity. Then india happened. With it came the grip of caste, putrid vegeterianism, linguistic hegemony, communal mindset, clannish gujjus, hate and contempt of "locals", lack of cleanliness. Congress rules maharashtra throughout its entire history apart from 9 years or so. However you blame shiv sena - you think delhi and "national" politicians are somehow better, "national" figures like vivekananda are inherently better than local fellows. Thats how you play yourself.

A 40 million malays even with their local bumiputra concept gave the world a kaula lampur. And india made a mumbai of 2020 from Bombay.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I don't oppress anybody

wolny yempower !

wonly*

 

[xeuss]

IN 1947 Mumbai had no competition in whole of asia including Tokyo which was reduced to rubble. THe city had excellent infrastructure, organized and very well aware and therefore skilled labor, an international exposure and connectivity. Then india happened. With it came the grip of caste, putrid vegeterianism, linguistic hegemony, communal mindset, clannish gujjus, hate and contempt of "locals", lack of cleanliness. Congress rules maharashtra throughout its entire history apart from 9 years or so. However you blame shiv sena - you think delhi and "national" politicians are somehow better, "national" figures like vivekananda are inherently better than local fellows. Thats how you play yourself.

The same can be said for a lot of cities around the world. The whites could argue (and they do) that Johannesburg was a great city to live in until ANC destroyed it.

Perhaps expand on your thoughts that the mismanagement of Bombay/Mumbai was a unique feature of India and why the same cannot be said for other large cities that are economic centers of their countries and subject to the same ravages of overpopulation and mismanagement.

 

[faithfulguy]

#DalitLifeMatter