NYT says India’s pace of IT innovation slow. How is Pakistan doing?

[TechLahore]

Let us read the heading of the thread
"NYT says India’s pace of IT innovation slow. How is Pakistan doing? "

The header is pathetic to start with... why bring Pakistan in the first place ?

Please tend to those massive chips on your shoulders before they do further damage. If you read this heading to be a Vs. characterization rather than an introspection of how the Pakistani software industry is doing in the areas that the NYT has highlighted, then I can't help you.

And if you haven't taken the time to read the original post, I suggest you do so now. This thread is based on a blog post keying off the NYT article, which discusses the trend towards product focused companies that is taking hold in the Pakistani software industry. Don't just look for those magic keywords, "Pakistan" and "India" and blindly dump propaganda without comprehending the context of the discussion.

 

[TechLahore]

Fair call. My mistake. Just 2points
2) As you have listed MS in your list of innovative companies, can you share what they have done for this? Or for that matter Google? (There success in search has more to do with technology rather than product which we are discussing here.)

Plenty. I really don't want to get into a Microsoft is Stupid and Evil discussion here. Please just google Microsoft Research and look at the number of patents Microsoft has filed in recent years. Also look at the innovations in speech and handwriting recognition through the use of bayesian networks, or the photosynth project which involves image stitching algorithms and construction of 3D structures from flat 2D photos, or the motion and gesture sensing technology showcased in Project Natal, or the new Microsoft Robotics toolkit, or innovations in some of the best development tools available etc.

1) The writer has set the reference for discussion. He is right India IT comp are not very innovative in Product field. But I find it ammusing that you are taking them to task on what you think is right. Why not include other functions in business to see if they are innovative. They find that there is lot of juice remaining in Service side and they are focused on that.

Because you can be as innovative as you want in services and you still won't achieve the natural advantages a product company has. Look at the ability of a product company to scale independent of workforce, the higher margins, the bigger valuations, the occupation of central positions in the IT landscape around which services companies build their practices... Product companies are the heart of the information technology industry, not service companies. Is there a contract software firm that evokes emotions as strong as those exhibited for Apple or Google?

 

[ramu]

Not sure this fits the bill... moving up the services chain is not the same as building product companies. One scales with labour, the other scales independent of it. Software product margins are tremendously larger and corporate valuations of product companies are consequently also higher.

Yes that is true ... However, consider this : Starting up is a low risk proposition especially in the IT industry. The ecosystem in the IT space is warming up for start ups. It is happening all around. Product development labs in colleges, small IT parks is every where. The tipping point is a few years away but the trend is catching up.

 

[karan.1970]

China has multi-billion $ product companies. That's the difference.

Agree.. They are atleast 10-15 years ahead

Not sure this fits the bill... moving up the services chain is not the same as building product companies. One scales with labour, the other scales independent of it. Software product margins are tremendously larger and corporate valuations of product companies are consequently also higher.

It appears that the analytics firm you are talking about is doing contract development for a US firm. Solving engineering problems is a small percentage of the overall business innovation and execution involved in building and growing a software product company. A sophisticated virtualization app that won Gold at VMWORLD, backed by a large number of patents with numerous Pakistani inventors was developed in Lahore by a Pakistani software firm for a US customer. The product is still owned by the US customer though. All the product marketing, sales positioning, competitive positioning, channel strategies, end-customer input cycles for refinement etc. are still being done by the US company. And most importantly, it was the US company that picked the space, it is the US company that is taking the innovation risk and paying the services provider to develop the solution. Yes, the service provider obviously has brilliant engineers who can come up with patentable algorithms and sophisticated solutions, but this alone does not a product company make.

Here, you are restricting the definition of product somewhat to a software or a tangible object. What I am talking about here is a product and SaaS model rolled up into One.

And no doubt, India is not even in the infancy stage on product innovations. However looking at the trend, in India the emergence of products will be in the field of business processes rather than software / IT. Something on the lines of what ADP did for payroll.

About the analytics firm, let me explain this a bit more. Its not a contract development for the US firm which this Banglore company gets paid for in return of person hours or lines of code. The IP of this development is retained by the Banglore firm with a contract that it cant be sold to another Healthcare company for 5 years. Also the Bangalore company is paid as a percentage of the amount of frauds identified and intercepted. So Net Net, this company is developing a fraud detection product (more of analytical model than a software) and offering that in a pay per drink model as a service and gets paid on an outcome based model based on the effectiveness of the product.

Now these examples as extremely rare and hence I agree that most Indian firms operate in the efficiency mode with cost arbitrage. But you do find such examples at distant but regular intervals..The challenge though is that these product models are more upfront investment heavy and with VC environment still not as developed as most western economies, a lot of them dont sustain long enough to make a mark...

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Last week i attended a seminar in my UNI. There were various CEOs from Multi national companies and also those based in US. MIXIT TECH a Wall St based company's head gaved presentation regarding the IT boom in Pakistan . He said, Pakistan has a great IT infrastructure and alot of potential . Alot of Buisnesses in US are looking towards Pakistani IT firms for their solutions Why because an IT company Providing solutions Based in China costs twice less simillary an IT company based in India costs 5 times less and guess what due to devalueing of the PKRupee, in Pakistan it costs ten times less, So alot of Muti National buisnesses in US including Microsoft, IBM ,Oracle, HSBC and other renowned institutions are giving contracts to IT companies in Pakistan .
Alot of people from Pakistan get hired in local offices of US companies in Pakistan. At the moment theres shortage of IT professionals in our Country and the IT industry is booming .

check out the website of Pakistan Software Export Board.Proud to be a Fastian.

Pakistan Software Export Board

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Though Pakistani IT companies are not up to the level upon which Indians are but certinly over athe last three years the local industry has certinly bacame successful in snatching some of the opertunities which India had ..!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

just see how the Human Capital requirement has gone up over the Last few years .




Pakistan Software Export Board - Human Capital

 

[DesiGuy]

I agree on one thing that if something is given to India, they will never try to improve that thing.

they will just keep using that thing again and again.

 

[manglasiva]

I agree on one thing that if something is given to India, they will never try to improve that thing.
they will just keep using that thing again and again.

I agree on one thing that if something is given to US, they will never try to improve that thing.
they will just release endless PATCHES,UPGRADES & UPDATES

 

[DesiGuy]

I agree on one thing that if something is given to US, they will never try to improve that thing.
they will just release endless PATCHES,UPGRADES & UPDATES

the whole world wants US technology, and that includes India.

have you heard about Laser airborne??

US has successful tested it.

Did India tested something like that?

 

[desiman]

the whole world wants US technology, and that includes India.

have you heard about Laser airborne??

US has successful tested it.

Did India tested something like that?

Do you know where the latest Intel chips are research lol You probably using a windows PC, do you know where Microsoft researched its flaws on vista to perfect them on Windows 7 ? You probably use Java in some form, do you know where sun Microsystems does its research? Sorry we don’t know make airborne lasers but we do research the computers that work them. Next time think before you post.

 

[desiman]

Ok I will take great pleasure in personally debunking this as IT is my field originally.

1) In terms of product, The Indian IT industry is as good if not better than its western counter parts. This is because of the following factors

a. Excellent training and in house human resource management by Indian IT firms

b. Continuing emphasis on small scale improvement.
c. Hiring of top grad from Indian and foreign universities.
d. Continuous adjustment to foreign competition.


2) In terms of ERP solutions and consultancy services, there is no match for India. The cost ratios are unbeatable and the services offered are second to none. The huge success of Infosys, TCS and many other consultancy firms is testament to that.

3) Research is a very relative subject. Filing a lot of patents isn’t testament to the amount of research being done. 80% of the time research is subtle and is based on improving a process or innovating on a product. Patents are rarely filed on such occasions. Just for example Textron, the company I work at, indulges in heavy research every year. However the amount of research that actually is tuned towards a new product only represents about 10% of the total research done. Most of the research is process based and often long term. Just research about new products cannot fund the research component of your company. Intel, Microsoft, Sun Microsystems, IBM, Dell, Adobe etc etc are just some of the IT majors that have their lead research labs in India. Textron will also be opening a huge center in Navi Mumbai in 2013. Accusing the IT industry of not practicing research is a very false and stupid argument. In terms of “Product Innovation” in IT, India leads the pack. SAP and Oracle already base their next generation systems on research done in India on the subject more efficient workflow models.

4) Any comparison of the Indian IT industry with the Pakistani IT industry is not correct. I have experienced both and without being biased, they are totally on different levels. India has been in the IT industry for almost 20 years now and is among the top 5 in IT services. Pakistan has a new and vibrant industry but any comparison is foolish.

5) I heard someone here said that Indian firm do not provide IT solutions. Please research how indepth the Indian industry is, before you post. This is totally absurd accusation.

6) I really don’t know what “Product Innovation”, actually means in context with this thread. If someone is trying to say that India is not introducing new products, the you know nothing about IT. IT is not about who introduces what into the market, its about who offers the best alternative. Introducing new products into the market such as what Apple does is high risk option and 90% of the time leads to failure. Not every company of this planet is Apple and not every company needs to believe in introducing new products. Have you heard of the Japanese way of thinking. Never introduce new products, only innovate. Introducing new products and taking huge risk is the north American way of thinking and India does not need to follow that. Call it being a coward or whatever you want but that’s how India has done it and that’s how they will continue to do so.

7) Again its very easy to cherry pick out selective products and then say ya we are more innovative than you but the fact is that the Indian IT industry continues to grow in leaps and bounds building on a strong foundation of IT disciplines and continued training of employees.

I hope I have clarified all doubts, please feel free to ask questions.

 

[DesiGuy]

Do you know where the latest Intel chips are research lol You probably using a windows PC, do you know where Microsoft researched its flaws on vista to perfect them on Windows 7 ? You probably use Java in some form, do you know where sun Microsystems does its research? Sorry we don’t know make airborne lasers but we do research the computers that work them. Next time think before you post.

Dude,

Intel, Microsoft, java all were made by American and tell me if India made something that can compete with any of them?

USA made fighter jets, missiles, guns and now tell me if India made something on it's own which can compete with American products?

 

[Mohan]

Dude,

Intel, Microsoft, java all were made by American and tell me if India made something that can compete with any of them?

USA made fighter jets, missiles, guns and now tell me if India made something on it's own which can compete with American products?

dude.. your signature says it all.. 0 is the basis of all products that u mentioned above....

 

[AZAAD]

@TL

I have been reading your posts wherein you have mentioned about "product" innovation in IT companies. But then what is a "product" for an IT company. if you feel google, MS, Yahoo are product companies and Infosys, TCS, Wipro is not, then i must refute.

if Internet explorer is MS product for web browsing, then Finacle is Infosys product for Core Banking Solution, and believe me it is very popular all over the world.

You also mentioned china has billion of $$ product companies, and i take it in IT as the thread is about IT, i am sorry you are wrong. in IT field, by any standard, china is way behind india. Perhaps you are using the word product for industrial product. in that case china is way ahead of us, but then this is the difference in our growth models. Industrial base vs service industry.

Coming to the topic i feel the innovation should be in riding up the value chain. and in the last 5-6 years there have been signs that it has also started to happen. i do agree we took a lot of time in the transformation, but now it has started, it will not take long to happen because there has been increase in the competition at the lower end service level from many countries, and in order to maintain the competency and lead, the indian IT companies will have to move up the value chain. its the most logical process.