Nuclear weapon an Islamic way to wage war?

[yarmook]

I want to post a question which have not been posted earlier and may undoubtedly provoke a debate, i want to know whether nuclear weapon can be used when we are waging war in lines of islamic code of war.

I had this conversation with one of the brothers while i was abroad and he quite convinced to the mere fact that nuclear weapon is not Islamic to use as it harm more civilian lives then achieving strategic battlefield advantage! which is quite right as islam doesnot allow us to kill innocent women and children or even destroy the property of our enemy.

So in the light of this question , how well Pakistanis should devise there nuclear doctrine?

Looking forward for positive debate!


Thanks
Yarmook

 

[A.Rahman]

ever heard of tactical nukes?

A tactical nuclear weapon (TNW) refers to a nuclear weapon which is designed to actually be used on a battlefield in military situations. This is as opposed to strategic nuclear weapons which are designed to threaten large populations or to generally deter attacks

The uses on the battlefield for TNWs would include:

* Against a large ground force

* Against a fortified underground bunker

* Against remote and/or heavily-defended target locations difficult or impossible to reach with conventional weapons

* Against a carrier fleet or any collection of surface vessels

* Against a large amphibious invasion force

 

[EagleEyes]

I dont think Pakistan will use its nuclear weapons in a first strike rule as it has commented in the past to alert the Indian Armed Forces before they decide to attack Pakistan. However, it may be possible that it destroys strategic locations with the nuclear weapons in order to stop the attacks on its soil.

 

[araz]

AsSalamO Alaikum.
Brother i wouldnt even dream of a nuclear war. However, The problem is the lack of trust between the two nations. Idont think that if there was all out war- may Allah protect us all from it(Ameen), there would nt be any holding back. The devastation would be unimaginable. That is why we should resolve our differences amicably and move on to develop ourselves.
Araz

 

[yarmook]

Nice to have you guys posting your replies here!
Bro ARahman mentioned something very useful.

I was not looking for people coming here and telling that what they dont want to imagine or can imagine or can predict about nuclear war! All i m talking about devising a strategy for using nuclear weapon as an effective tool for peace complying with ISLAMIC laws as we are muslims.

Offcourse once bomb is dropped in lahore and one is dropped in bombay things would be unimaginable but this is not what we are discussing!!!!

Ok now coming back JUst to add to this brainstorming process! The nuclear weapons we have in modern world are not infact dirty bombs at all! unlike Hiroshima which were bascially dirty bombs developed in hastle. Dirty bombs basically mean that not only they destroy physical infrastructure but they create mutations wihtin the living creations in and around the place of blast.

So you got to think our selves far better then hiroshima one! kaz it is in policy of Pakistani Nuclear development to develop such bombs which are not dirty in worst case scenario! Any ways a bomb made by a soap or by atom is a bomb which kills people!!!!
But what i wanted to put here was the fact that we can use demographics of India for our advantage how? look at vast muslim population of India tell them that we dont intend to kill our muslim brothers only on the name of war! give them protection even in case of war, which may eventually result in creating pressure frm muslim community over Indian govt to avert any misfortune intended!

Well! talking abt war! i wanted to know what sort of weapons we may utillize to use as offesive and defensive weapon! tactical stratgic nukes seems to be one of the good ideas on which pakistan has already planned to call for SOS nuclear bombing if in case indian army infiltrates and takes a bunch of land from us and in this case pakistan may look for SOS bombing in its own soil thus targetting the enemy to withdraw!

But honestly speaking, droping , atomic bombs on cities seems to be quite inhumane and INSHALLAH am confident Pakistanis are not that irresponsible as they are portrayed to use first strike by dropping atomic bomb oiver civil population. However, I cant be sure about Indians as they had planned it long time agao and i even saw it in 1990 edition of Janes IDR intended targets highlighted for Prithvi with in Pakistan and they covered almost every city.

So the purpose of this thread was to tell yess the need of nuclear force is undeniable factor but the usage may seem bit complicated and responsible but for long lasting peace complying with Islamic rules of engagement

We have been blessed with this responsibility by Allah's help and we should seek His guidance for the using it for betterment of humanity.

Any more thoughts most welcomed.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Pakistan needs the nuclear weapons for its defense & if it starts to follow fatwas into the matter of the nuclear program then ALLAH help Pakistan sir lets face it Islamic or non-Islamic nuclear weapons with all its option is a must to be a powerful country lets be that much Islamic as needed to be & as not to put ones national security @ risk
thanks
Pakistan zindabad

 

[yarmook]

Your feelinsg are truly appreciated but comments are absolutely irrelevant and doesnot help this thread to proceed on with brain storming of devising way to use nuclear weapon in accordance to islamic way of waging war and to inflict damage on enemies.

We want answers or ideas that may be helpful on battlefield level or strategic level to guide us to use this weapon responsibly Allah's religion is our true source of guidance and for all secularist or modernists or liberlists but i ll stick to as being muslims we are not suppose to impose unnecessary damage to human fellows.

Yes maintaining offensive strategy for self defense is as imp as anything and cannot be ruled out!

Pakistan Painda abad!!!

 

[Officer of Engineers]

There is no such thing as a tac nuke.

 

[A.Rahman]

There is no such thing as a tac nuke.

shed some light on it; please

 

[niaz]

I want to post a question which have not been posted earlier and may undoubtedly provoke a debate, i want to know whether nuclear weapon can be used when we are waging war in lines of islamic code of war.

I had this conversation with one of the brothers while i was abroad and he quite convinced to the mere fact that nuclear weapon is not Islamic to use as it harm more civilian lives then achieving strategic battlefield advantage! which is quite right as islam doesnot allow us to kill innocent women and children or even destroy the property of our enemy.

So in the light of this question , how well Pakistanis should devise there nuclear doctrine?

Looking forward for positive debate!


Thanks
Yarmook

In the strictest Islamic code of conduct of war; IMO there is no place for the use of WMD (including nuclear weapons). Use of WMD in warfare is a crime against humanity as these indiscriminately kill all; including non combatants.

Islam is a religion of peace; even though one would think otherwise if one is to listen to Al Qaeda and Talibaan, who openly preach 'Qitaal'. Therefore in answer to your question, I would say that if one was correctly following Islamic teaching; nuclear weapons would be used only as a weapon of last resort. That is, when all efforts have failed and defeat is imminent and Dar ul Islam is in grave danger; then and only then nuclear option should be excercised.

This may be so in theory, in practice most muslims only pay lip service to the tenents of Islam which dont suit them. Therefore what would ground realities dictate is another matter.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

shed some light on it; please

Nukes on a battlefield is a myth. Battle momentum is such that by the time a weapon is deployed, the lines would have shifted miles away and you will bomb mostly just empty space. Battles are also defined by small unit actions, not the big formations that people come to expect. In other words, it is a platoon or a company that will either hold off the enemy or make the break through that would allow the follow on force to pass through. In this scenario, using a nuke is a waste of firepower.

Instead, tac nukes were originally conceived to attack fuel depots, assembly points, LOC, and given the nature of where these are usually located - ie besides a civilian population (obvious really, it's cheaper to share the costs with the civilian population - ie, the military does not have to build a road when the civilians already built one for their purposes), then any nuke strike will inevitably incur civilian casualties.

 

[yarmook]

In the strictest Islamic code of conduct of war; IMO there is no place for the use of WMD (including nuclear weapons). Use of WMD in warfare is a crime against humanity as these indiscriminately kill all; including non combatants.

Islam is a religion of peace; even though one would think otherwise if one is to listen to Al Qaeda and Talibaan, who openly preach 'Qitaal'. Therefore in answer to your question, I would say that if one was correctly following Islamic teaching; nuclear weapons would be used only as a weapon of last resort. That is, when all efforts have failed and defeat is imminent and Dar ul Islam is in grave danger; then and only then nuclear option should be excercised.

This may be so in theory, in practice most muslims only pay lip service to the tenents of Islam which dont suit them. Therefore what would ground realities dictate is another matter.

Well i donot necessarily agree with you when you utter words that muslims only pay lip service to the tenants of islam and am not sure about ur exposure on the basis of which you commented this idea. However, i can tell you that i have seen the bestest of practicing muslims and i have seen worst of its kind among ourselves, Good or bad are there in every society.

However, i would agree with you on this matter that it should be used when all the efforts seem to be failure and i think this is what pakistani nuclear doctrine is basing upon is to stop India when it seems bit difficult in conventional war fare.

But what we are talkin here is to come up with some ideas that we could change the ground realities in our favor by Allah's help rather just being sheepish to what ground realities dictates. Well ground realities are non negligible but we can still work out to make the ground realities suite our agenda don't we ! yes we can

Need some more ideas!!!!!

What about such weapons which inflict limited damage to area of enemy!
What about using it as tactical weapon for delivery!!1


After all these words with my dearest brethern i feel pakistanis are Alhumdulillah on right course of action of containing and maintaining it as tool to deter our enemy and are in accordance to islamic doctrine! am loving Pakistan heheheheh!am loving my self!!!!

Any disagreements please say!


Regards,
Yarmook

 

[blitz]

Another question that nags me often is how do you draw the line between tactical and strategic nukes ? If you use a tactical nuke, why not just go all the way and conduct a full scale nuclear strike ? The enemy will anyways conduct a full scale retaliatory strike after suffering even a single nuclear attack, tactical or no tactical.

So whats the rationale and under what circumstances can a party limit the use of nukes only on the tactical level ?

 

[Officer of Engineers]

People,

With an estimated less than 100 nukes on both sides, they're all strategic weapons.

 

[IceCold]

I will not get into religious debate here but to think that in case of nuclear attack, pakistan should focus on selective targets protecting the civilians is just like living in fools paradise. To fight india with conventional weapons is simply out of question, the reason is you are fighting an enemy who not only has numerical superiority in every field(army, airforce, navy) but is also more advance in terms of technology. To counter that pakistan relies on her missle and nuclear sheild.
To say that pakistan should only use a certain tactical nuke and not the other one is completely ridiculous because even if we do that do you think that the response of india will be the same. Hell no. India will retaliate with full power. This is not a cricket match that we have eleven players means india too has eleven players, this is war and if god for bids it happens and it turns out to be nuclear, pakistan should come out will full force keeping aside the damage that civilians will take afterall everywar has its effects and causalties.