Notify PAF Aircraft Crashes

[litman]

4 PAF crashes in 3 months, 1 army air craft lost and 1 PIA jet lost. 3 paf pilots, 2 army aviators shaheed and 99 lives lost in PIA accident and we have not even completed 06 months in 2020. if you call it satisfactory its your choice but the world doesnt seem to agree. on any international forum like bbc , aljaeera or saudi news whenever you see a news regarding the aviation related accidents in pakistan one sentence is common every where" pakistan has a checkered aviation safety record" and they give a list of the losses of PAF, PA and CA. we operate mostly obsolete jets , pilot errors are frequent (f-16 crash and the recent PIA crash both were the experienced pilots),psyche of "juggar lagana" exists in aviation and SOPs are breached . and if we accept the argument of the member here that PAF pilots are directly going to F 7s and mirages directly from K8 leading to increased crashes then its again fault of the PAF policy makers. but i think there is a need to compare the data of the crashes of F7s and mirages before and after the deinduction of FT5. i dont think its very significant. the mirages and F7s are simply obsolete but we have to fly them as we dont have any other option. so in my opinion we cant deny the fact that air crashes are vry frequent in PAF, PA and CA and the reasons are:
obsolete air crafts.
corruption in the system as AM shahid masood himself admitted few years back in an interview that "merit"has a taken a hit.
lack of resources to maintain the current fleet.
training of aviators and engineers as there are evidences that SOPs are breached often.

 

[litman]

this is what the world thinks about pakistan aviation (militay and civial aviation)
"Pakistan has a checkered military and civilian aviation safety record, with frequent plane and helicopter crashes over the years.

Wednesday's incident comes just months after a fighter jet crashed during a training mission near Mianwali in Punjab province, killing both pilots.

In July last year at least 18 people were killed when a small army plane crashed in Rawalpindi.

And in 2016, a Pakistan International Airlines plane burst into flames after one of its two turboprop engines failed while flying from remote northern Pakistan to Islamabad, killing more than 40 people."
https://saudigazette.com.sa/article...s-in-Pakistan-capital-during-parade-rehearsal
"Pakistan has a chequered military and civilian aviation safety record, with frequent plane and helicopter crashes over the years."
https://www.dw.com/en/pakistani-passenger-jet-crashes-near-karachi-airport/a-53531686
"
"What is Pakistan's safety record like?
Pakistan has a chequered aviation safety record, including a number of airliner crashes.

In 2010, an aircraft operated by private airline Airblue crashed near Islamabad, killing all 152 people on board - the deadliest air disaster in Pakistani history.

In 2012, a Boeing 737-200 operated by Pakistan's Bhoja Air crashed in bad weather on its approach to land in Rawalpindi, killing all 121 passengers and six crew.

And in 2016, a Pakistan International Airlines plane burst into flames while travelling from northern Pakistan to Islamabad, killing 47 people."
"
"Pakistan has a chequered aviation safety record, including a number of airliner crashes.

Last year a small military plane crashed into a residential area near Rawalpindi, which neighbours Islamabad. At least 18 people were killed and several injured ."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51831319

this is the world opinion. we are acting like indians here. they kept on ranting about the F-16 crash and christine fair openly said that it doesnt matter what you believe. the thing that matters is what the world believes and they believe that there was no F-16 shot down. so it doesnt matter that we keep on saying that our safety and maintenance is best the thing that matters is what the world believes with the undeniable facts.

 

[Raider 21]

May the pilots rest in peace.
Regarding someone thumping their chest for pointing out the fact that WC Nauman's aircraft crash was due to altitude, it has categorically got to be the dumbest f@%&ng shit I have ever heard. Its like saying the person drowned and the cause was water. Just idiotic!
No body has to apologize to anybody for speaking like a d#@b arse. Copy?

But it very much does point out to low altitude. He made a mistake and paid the price for it, with a slight margin to eject as well. Personally it may have costed him his career, but had he ejected he would have come home to his family, his service and country. That's all that matters. It is terrible to see the base car pull up to a pilot's house with senior personnel to tell the news. And even more horrific to those who empty out their lockers.

 

[Jammer]

But it very much does point out to low altitude. He made a mistake and paid the price for it, with a slight margin to eject as well. Personally it may have costed him his career, but had he ejected he would have come home to his family, his service and country. That's all that matters. It is terrible to see the base car pull up to a pilot's house with senior personnel to tell the news. And even more horrific to those who empty out their lockers.

I think you are missing the point, the point is that altitude is absolutely the issue, it is obvious, very, very , obvious. It is childish to point it out as a eureka discovery (not talking about you here), Ray Charles can see that for God's sake. Let us let him rest in peace.

 

[Raider 21]

It's not real



A highly unlikely scenario. An investigation is underway. The results will be out soon hopefully.

It was beyond unreal. A 15 second convo for a 5 second descent. A bit of Bollywood spice thrown into it.

I think you are missing the point, the point is that altitude is absolutely the issue, it is obvious, very, very , obvious. It is childish to point it out as a eureka discovery (not talking about you here), Ray Charles can see that for God's sake. Let us let him rest in peace.

Here is an interesting account of an experienced pilot killed while flying low level. I like how they release investigative reports, irrespective of who or what was at fault.

 

[khanasifm]

It's not real



A highly unlikely scenario. An investigation is underway. The results will be out soon hopefully.

Paf has never publicly disclosed any investigation unofficially it will be but it’s mostly likely what already know.
End of story

 

[GriffinsRule]

It was beyond unreal. A 15 second convo for a 5 second descent. A bit of Bollywood spice thrown into it.

Here is an interesting account of an experienced pilot killed while flying low level. I like how they release investigative reports, irrespective of who or what was at fault.

If this was a PAF accidents, some members here would say he was showing off for the camera, was full of himself, didn't eject because he wanted his family to get benefits, was not a good pilot ... and whatever else would come to their mind.

 

[TsAr]

If this was a PAF accidents, some members here would say he was showing off for the camera, was full of himself, didn't eject because he wanted his family to get benefits, was not a good pilot ... and whatever else would come to their mind.

What people don't understand is that these accidents happen very quickly, the pilot has a split second to make a decision, i dont know how you can think about your family and benefits etc in that time period

 

[Jammer]

It was beyond unreal. A 15 second convo for a 5 second descent. A bit of Bollywood spice thrown into it.

Here is an interesting account of an experienced pilot killed while flying low level. I like how they release investigative reports, irrespective of who or what was at fault.

Countless pilots have lost there lives for one reason or the other, whether self induced error or otherwise, it happens. As Mr. Griffin has eluded, mistakes or errors in fighter flying have an exponentially cumulative trajectory, i.e. something goes bad the next linked problem is going to join the party pretty fast. Can happen to anyone.
Some still wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat having relived a near miss .
Remember altitude good, ground bad!

 

[Safriz]

Please don't revive this thread unnecessarily.
Gives a mini heart attack to many of us , if we see this thread in the list of threads with a new post.

 

[Raider 21]

Countless pilots have lost there lives for one reason or the other, whether self induced error or otherwise, it happens. As Mr. Griffin has eluded, mistakes or errors in fighter flying have an exponentially cumulative trajectory, i.e. something goes bad the next linked problem is going to join the party pretty fast. Can happen to anyone.
Some still wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat having relived a near miss .
Remember altitude good, ground bad!

I'm aware of those cold sweats. Been through some near misses. As a Viper test pilot told me, stick down and stick up can have the houses looking bigger no matter what orientation you're in.

Hi,

Thank you---altitude altitude altitude---it is always the altitude nd 1/4 of the people die by drowning in water as shallow as two to three feet in a flowing river---.

https://www.nbc12.com/story/15275723/sunni-shallow-drowning/

Knowledge and information about air craft accidents is not a myth anymore---. Those who are well informed and well versed can understand the cause if the accident by looking at the given scenarios---and hardly any expert is wrong about the assessment being made before the release of the official report---.

Why---because the aircraft have become extremely safe to fly over the decade---and accidents happen when the basics of maintenance are not met by the technicians or the basics of flight are not met by the pilots---and in design flaws---like in the 737 MAX---the manufacturer opts not to install a seond fail safe sensor---or in the Air France accident---the pilots are too casual to get the Captain take charge right away and the captain is also too casual to step in and the junior pilot is pulling on the control to lift the nose up till they crash into the ocean due to a stall---.

In a similar manner---the PIA airbus crash---nothing un-predictable about the crash---no reason to set hope high for the actual official report---when the behavior of the pilots is clearly visible from the recordings of the conversation with the air controller---.

And same with W/C Nauman---.

It is always the basics of flight adherence when they are neglected by the experienced pilots---result is catastrophic disasters---.

Has not changed over the years and will never change over a period of history---.

You never do aerobatics in a mixed terrain---it is always a NO NO---even if you do---you basic minimum is above the tallest land mark in the area.

Now for the PIA airbus crash---I think they were fasting---and the most crucial part---they had their COVID NOSE MASKS on---.

They were starving for oxygen---.

It happened to me about a month ago---at work---I am usual taking down customer information and made multiple serious errors---they were in my mind but I never asked the questions and filled up the irght information---.

I got called three times by the secretary to correct three blunders---I was literally shocked as to why I did it and I had it in my mind to ask but could not---.

Then a couple of days later my wife says to me---your nose mask is very thick---you could get oxygen starved---and then I realized that I was oxygen starved---because there was a lots of confusion and a lack of direction---.

Listening to the pilot and and tower conversation---the too casual of the pilot behaviour suggests that they may be oxygen starved---because their answers were emotionless right to the end---like being too lazy---not being able to make a decision---taking the easy way out---not understanding the warning chimes noise in the cockpit---and not reacting to it---.

I am definite that it was oxygen starvation because they had their covid masks on and they were fasting as well---.

Nope. No oxygen issue. This was a little silly on the way you tried to reason it with the oxygen issue. A320s don't lose pressurization that quickly, no matter which covid kits and masks they had on it was not oxygen deprivation. Fasting has a high possibility on fatigue, but the coordinated aircrew's decision to approach at 210 kts and touch down around 190 kts was very absurd.

 

[Invictus.inc]

mods to please intervene
this thread is solely reserved as an alert to an aircraft crash
any discussion on the cause of the crash to be discussed on other threads

 

[Counter-Errorist]

@MastanKhan @Knuckles
Kindly continue the discussion in the original thread. This thread bumping up causes anxiety.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pia-...with-93-on-board.667671/page-65#post-12404501

 

[Jammer]

I vote to temporarily shut this thread, the conspiracy theories and extrapolations are getting quite ridiculous. Apologies, I might have been part responsible for encouraging these tangential "tales". If not then I am out of this chain of thought, life's too short and blood pressure too high.

 

[ziaulislam]

whats going on in this thread