Notify PAF Aircraft Crashes

[Fawadqasim1]

Girte hain shahsawar hi maidan-e-jang mein
Wo tifl kyaa girega jo ghutnon ke bal chale

 

[Tomcats]

Considering the amount of operational hours this has accumulated, the metrics are pretty good.

While the neighbors may be having their selfpleasure sessions we need to look at the following.

The first crash caused by a combination of poor test methodology which caused the airframe to disintegrate - Pilot KIA due to low altitude and g’s pulled(quite a bit per some reports)

Second was CFIT - no fault of airframe

Third was bird strike - no fault of airframe and the pilot

Compare that to other airframe operated around us and their crash causes

I don't think there is an official statement regarding the cause of the crash of the recent incident? I've seen the bird strike reason been put out but it's just like when news channels were throwing around 'F-7' and images of the Shorkot crash before images of JF-17 wreckage started to surface. So as of this moment i don't think we know the exact reason really, it could be birds or a plethora of other reasons. I hope that the PAF clarifies though in time.

 

[PakFactor]

All man-made things that are put in the air or on the water, will someday go down because that is a natural thing to happen, no one can stop it. Failures happen and nature works. Thank GOD pilot is safe and no loss of life or property on the ground.

Agreed just happy the pilot has survived its our most valuable asset. The plane can and will be replaced.

 

[Marker]

Aircraft accident investigation should be thorough. Every evidence and exhibit must be thoroughly examined, evaluated in detail and depth. Every possible direct and indirect cause should be identified and addressed.

Preventive measures must be highlighted to avoid such unfortunate occurrence.

Operational, maintenance and other related staff must be told to avoid complacency as this is the major reason of any mishap.

After Feb 2019, it appears most of the staff in PAF has become complacent. This must be avoided.

Success and failures are part of life. We must focus on the current task and mission at our hand. By avoiding complacency we will be able to achieve 100% result otherwise......

 

[alibaz]

یہ جو انکوری ریپوٹ ہوتی ھے
یہ پبلل کیوں نہں ٰہوتی

Its military aircraft and its inquiry is not meant for general public. inquiry report in public may leak out information regarding its systems or weaknesses which are not desired to let adversary know. Finally have we achieved by making few inquiries public, what I learnt that many monkeys found a match box and they started putting jungle on fire.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Operational, maintenance and other related staff must be told to avoid complacency as this is the major reason of any mishap.
After Feb 2019, it appears most of the staff in PAF has become complacent. This must be avoided.

Harsh verdict from your side, i must say.

Instead of complacency, it has more to do with regional dynamics / environment, increased flying post-Feb 2019, increased drills....overall increased flying. Our country been much nearer to war from Feb 2019 till now than never before.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Harsh verdict from your side, i must say.

Instead of complacency, it has more to do with regional dynamics / environment, increased flying post-Feb 2019, increased drills....overall increased flying. Our country been much nearer to war from Feb 2019 till now than never before.

I'm pretty sure higher sortie rates increase attrition.

 

[Marker]

Harsh verdict from your side, i must say.

Instead of complacency, it has more to do with regional dynamics / environment, increased flying post-Feb 2019, increased drills....overall increased flying. Our country been much nearer to war from Feb 2019 till now than never before.

PAF pilots continuously undergo harsh flying training. It is their part of daily routine.

When I referred complacency, I was considering human nature. It is human nature, to become complacent due to some outstanding achievements. Repeating tasks and missions also make a person complacent.

FOD drill is a regular drill in the morning. But there were some occasions when a person responsible to pick the FOD missed it and the same was sucked in engine. A routine makes you complacent.

Therefore, it is the duty of commanders to ensure that their subordinates do not show such attitude. Repeated reminders are necessary.

 

[Tomcats]

Its military aircraft and its inquiry is not meant for general public. inquiry report in public may leak out information regarding its systems or weaknesses which are not desired to let adversary know. Finally have we achieved by making few inquiries public, what I learnt that many monkeys found a match box and they started putting jungle on fire.

Well alternatively PAF could follow the USAF route in that they publish 2 reports. One that is meant for civilian viewing and another more detailed 'full' report that only those who the PAF deem necessary can view. I'm sure the USAF knows what information is deemed too valuable to be able to be made public, likewise with the PAF.

 

[Raider 21]

Well alternatively PAF could follow the USAF route in that they publish 2 reports. One that is meant for civilian viewing and another more detailed 'full' report that only those who the PAF deem necessary can view. I'm sure the USAF knows what information is deemed too valuable to be able to be made public, likewise with the PAF.

USAF makes sure that it is USA's air force. PAF is for PAF itself. I feel it is more about maintaining a mighty status in the country rather than being realistic and open to the public. Like one good example would be, the PAF Viper that crashed in Islamabad during a rehearsal. Unofficially amongst air force members and word of mouth there is a cause for the crash, yet the public officially don't have a statement unfortunately from PAF. I personally have a lot of respect for what PAF does and their roles (fortunate to have been an air force brat). But there's a lot that needs to be worked on, and I hope with time it does get addressed.

 

[Talon]

Casualties in "High" Mark 2016 -

1 F-7PG aircraft - Fl. Lt. Omer Shahzad dead
1 JF17 aircraft - Sqn Ldr Rizwan dead
1 GIDS Shahpar UAV crash

You forgot Mirage Crash at Masroor

 

[kursed]

 

[Chak Bamu]

This is news news to me as I imagined/hoped that the second JF-17 crash during the night exercises over the sea might have had an ejection too and that the pilot survived but looks like it's not the case. Glad to see this young officer did eject safely.

The very first JF-17 loss had an ejection too, IIRC. But we lost gem of a pilot because the aircraft was low, at an angle, & so the seat ejected into terrain before the parachute could deploy. Its been a few years and I am too lazy to double-check. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[airomerix]

PAF pilots continuously undergo harsh flying training. It is their part of daily routine.

When I referred complacency, I was considering human nature. It is human nature, to become complacent due to some outstanding achievements. Repeating tasks and missions also make a person complacent.

FOD drill is a regular drill in the morning. But there were some occasions when a person responsible to pick the FOD missed it and the same was sucked in engine. A routine makes you complacent.

Therefore, it is the duty of commanders to ensure that their subordinates do not show such attitude. Repeated reminders are necessary.

Post swift retort, PAF has seen a major change in the curriculum where the training doctrine has been tightened like never before. More pilots are being disqualified due to a new syllabus that has been recently innovated.

For example, to qualify for section leader, let's say if there are x number of continuous sorties required. For any reason, in one of the sorties, the aircraft is forced to recover back without completing the mission. That sortie is not counted as per the new curriculum and the entire chain of qualification has to be duplicated. This not only puts the pilots to the test, but also the engineering and other combat support elements involved.

Your earlier verdict of complacency is based on a mere assumption that is actually far from what has been happening in the institution.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Post swift retort, PAF has seen a major change in the curriculum where the training doctrine has been tightened like never before. More pilots are being disqualified due to a new syllabus that has been recently innovated.

For example, to qualify for section leader, let's say if there are x number of continuous sorties required. For any reason, in one of the sorties, the aircraft is forced to recover back without completing the mission. That sortie is not counted as per the new curriculum and the entire chain of qualification has to be duplicated. This not only puts the pilots to the test, but also the engineering and other combat support elements involved.

Your earlier verdict of complacency is based on a mere assumption that is actually far from what has been happening in the institution.

It sounds like we're stressing our airframes more, which necessitates new-build aircraft. I think we should be pushing PAC's JF-17 output to its limit, possibly look at expanding our order past the 188 aircraft (26 JF-17Bs and 162 Block-I/II/III). Perhaps manufacture a dozen or so for storage/attrition replacements.