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Not battle-ready before 2027, admits Indian Army

Dont give that to much thought its not to bad.

I agree that the Arjun got screwed over.

But the Higher echelon of the army seems to have done something right.

you, see instead of outright inducting the T-90 as the MBT.

The Army now intends to acquire a new 4th gen tank. There are even rumors of a JV with Russia for this.

Can you throw some more light on this, I am not 100% what you meant by "But the Higher echelon of the army seems to have done something right.
you, see instead of outright inducting the T-90 as the MBT." What exactly they did, also what is 4th generation Tank.
 
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Well, I think that a lot of Indian in this forum like to compare to others. For example, Indian in ths thread is comparing Indian arm forces to Pakistani one. Why tell the Pakistani that India has a bigger arm force or a superior arm force? Is this kind of comparason even necessary? If someone ask me to describe how their military is #### better than the US military, I would just ignore as comparasons are generally useless. Unless if the two country is about to engage in a war and the forces are about even. Would you say the Indian force is about as even as Pakistani force?

US generally has shown deeds that leaves too much for suspicion about its interests with India. An alliance of US, as you see has to go through sour spots like current President Obama which seems to be pushing the clock back.

Do you think Mr. Singh went to Russia to get another nuclear deal for no reason or was it some of sign of "increased co-operation" with US. I am assuming President Obama is not too happy with 1-2-3 deal terms. Time and time again this is proved. In early part of Indian history after independence, India spent far less on defence just about 1.5% of GDP and used the resources for development. The result was 1962 war with China - another country with no resources but a huge army that fed on back of communist propogonda. India lost this war and hence "Asin Chin" region is with China. President Kennedy started supporting India at that time. Then just 3 years later, Pakistan attacked India apparently for no good reason. US discontinued military supplies to India. India was facing Pakistan with far more advanced weapons that was supplied to it by US until 1965.

In 1971, India was able to winddown Pakistan to substantial degree. US President's covert operation of sending US aircraft to India's Bay of Bengal was a direct threat to India. They also supplied weapons to Pakistan during the war covertly through Syria and Egypt.

Later during US's Afghanistan gave birth to Taliban and its related Islamocrazy factions which is fueling India's Kashmir terror with Pakistan's "moral" support.

When you see a pattern of on-again off-again relationship along with strong support to Pakistan and China that causes India to spend larger percentage of GDP (2.5% - eventhough that is less than our neighbors) on military, you got to admit it installs lot of trust deficit.

Indians started slowly trusting US in late 90's with President Clinton followed by dramatic help from President Bush. President Bush gets more than 50% ratings in India even though in his home country he can hardly get 20%. President Obama seems to working his way and winding down the relationship. This has become classy in itself.

Regarding your comment on Pakistan, it is apparent to most Pakistanis - I am talking about the sensibles ones that India-Pakistan parity is tilted far in India's favor as far as conventional power is concerned. But that was not always the case. US gave Pakistan F16's during 1980's whereas India had cheaper Mig21. India used numbers to counter that threat. Pakistan's support of terrorists was not met with force but rather India is fighting the war with bomb explosion all over Kashmir for 2-3 decades. If Pakistan had no support from US, India would have decided the matter long back and India would not be bleeding all these years. Thankfully with sanctions on Pakistan from 1990's by US and no more weapons and money to its armed forces and India's leap into higher growth, Pakistan is left behind - far far behind. That is the only reason Pakistan is spending more on nuclear weapons and missile because that is only defence it sees it can do to counter India's threat. India is also not attacking only because of it and hence prefusely bleeding through terror. I personally feel this matter has to be dealt with once India's grows overwhelming stronger - ie can stop China from attacking India when Pakistan's moral support can be eliminated through force.

India's GDP was growing at 2-3% GDP whereas its population was growing at 1.8% roughly from time of independence till 1991. After 1991 liberalization process, India started averaging about 6% growth rates , with growth rates as high as 9% three years prior to the start of this recession. There was another economic thesis that is getting widely popular in economic circles. Optimists persume that India can grow upto 15% if it can create SDZs like the ones in China because India's growth basically so far had been more or less domestically driven with increasing share of IT exports. With SDZs, India can compete like China using the export-based model as well. Indian govt had started the process but thanks to democratic way of governance it takes time to show results.

Anyways, the summary is that India is growing to become second largest economy according to Goldman's research. Many other research papers like Pricewater and Deusche puts India third largest economy by 2050 and still growing at 6%.

You seem to claim why shouldn't India join US camp? I think India has done well without joining any camp, why should India join any camp. What benefits can it get? Giving its sovernity to be with increasing whimps of respective US Presidents who will short change India's interests for its own benefits. Thanks but no thanks!
 
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Can you throw some more light on this, I am not 100% what you meant by "But the Higher echelon of the army seems to have done something right.
you, see instead of outright inducting the T-90 as the MBT." What exactly they did, also what is 4th generation Tank.

not all of the Indian army is corrupt or blind to realities. There were high ranking members in the Military including the chief of the Army, who wanted the Arjun in greater quantity.
I read several articles quoting this, I am sure they are still out there.

But for what ever reason they could not get their way.
Instead of being forced to Induct the T-90 however, which despite being produced in Indian will still be a foreign tank. with India having no intellectual property over. which they wanted to avoid.

This was their solution.

In 2008, the Indian Army announced plans to acquire an entirely new main battle tank unrelated to the Arjun, to be inducted after 2020. The Indian Army has held an "international seminar on future MBTs", during which the parameters and requirements of this future MBT were identified. As a result, Russia has offered to team with India on developing this future tank. These developments do not bode well for the future of the Arjun project.

According to Jane's, the Indian Army has confirmed that the Arjun's production will be capped at 124 units. Lt General Dalip Bharadwaj, the Director General for the Mechanized Infantry, said that "Army will place no more orders for Arjun beyond 124 that was already contracted", because the "Army is now looking 20 years ahead and wants a futuristic MBT."

Russia offers to team with India on new MBT - Jane's Defence News

Russia, India Negotiate Smart Tank Creation - Kommersant Moscow

India sets in motion plans to build futuristic tanks- Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

Later in the year 2009, during the handing over of Arjun tanks, he said that the joint effort and the will to succeed against odds displayed by various agencies in putting out MBT Arjun proved to the world that India was a force to reckon with when it came to weapon design capabilities. The Army, which was proud to possess the tank, was confident that MBT Arjun would rank among the best tanks in the world.

These events lead me to Understand that, the 1000+ T-90 tanks.

In September 2008, the Indian Army signed a deal with Russia to import 347 T-90 tanks and license build a further 1000. Transfer of key T-90 technologies has also been agreed upon as a part of the deal.


Are more of stop-gap measure or an extension of a deal with the Russians.

Production of the T-90 will only be up til 2020. and we are only producing some ~1500 tanks, which for India is a small order of tanks, for a MBT. Think about it India has 6000 plus tanks, you would think if they would get a new MBT it would be at least an order of 3000.

Now this new JV tank will be similar in share if Intellectual property to the successful Bhamos.

army gets a Tank developed with Indigenous effort. IT has a share of intellectual property,

Frankly if the Arjun is as great a tank as we all think it is. Combining that knowledge with Knowledge of Solid rohbust Russian tanks. Would only yield a superior tank. This new tank is essentially the Arjun plus a lot more.

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MR dark where did u did this list of weapons from are u in PAKISTAN ARMYS AIR DEF?
Ur ignorant views that u gather from wiki or defense forum/ MOCK ur existance on this forum for exam the post where u asked WHERE IS PAKISTAN ARMY? and gave stupid stats of 6400 TANKS IN INDIAN ARMY?U competely forget our missiles in this post where u talk about ur akashmissile or other missiles PAK AIR DEF CORPS also consists of missile corps not just grails or bofors ???
Still u want to say that IA is better then PA well my friend this is nothing more then an INDIAN CURSE of considering urself over top of the world while u are brainwashed by STAR SAMACHAR OR DOR DARSHAN/So its not ur fault its in ur blood THANKS TO RETARDS LIKE HARI SUD OR BHARIT VARMA.
Reguarding Hamid zahid hes not a defense expert ?:rofl: Anyways looks like more INDIANS watch his programs then PAKISTANIS LOL:blah::blah::blah:
Thanks for trolling:coffee:

1) I didnt forget abt any pak missiles if i did why didnt u mention them
remember we are not dissuccing abt air defence

2) Why dont u tell me the figure for IA tanks
 
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hey black angel u was asking me about drones operated by PA.
PA doesnt use dronmes its the PAF tht uses drones like FALCO,UCAB ,BORDER EAGLE etc and u want more my friend there are a lot more threads reguarding drones tht PAKISTAN uses so dude dont try to make a joke out of urself.
FREE KASHMIR
GREATER PAKISTAN
 
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