although I don't agree with the indians who insult this poor girl, as a sikh I find it insulting when Pakistanis use sikhs or other minorities of india as a ammunition to insult fellow indians. Please save your crocodile tears for the few minorities left in Pakistan....
'Not Afraid Of ABVP': Kargil Martyr's Daughter's Facebook Post Goes Viral
- Thread starter INDIAPOSITIVE
- Start date
although I don't agree with the indians who insult this poor girl, as a sikh I find it insulting when Pakistanis use sikhs or other minorities of india as a ammunition to insult fellow indians. Please save your crocodile tears for the few minorities left in Pakistan....
Soumitra
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I have tried to give reason in a previous post
Baically STEM people are not vella as Humanities. They actually have to work and study hard. They contribute to the society in a positive way.
Humanities people just think politics and nothing else
livingdead
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because stem people are simple minded folks.. one track mindset.. ask around in a campus about ideas like democracy, pluralism, poverty, you will hear all crazy ideas. Generally I consider liberal art people to be superstitious, lacking rational thought.. and stem people lacking empathy, humanity....
if we were all STEM people we will be like chinese.
Soumitra
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They are not simple minded. You need one track mind in STEM. Only Humanities people can afford to be vella because there course and studies is nothing
I remeber in my engineering once there wa a protest against bad hostel food quality. It was all over in hardly 1 hour. We all went to the warden and gave a letter signed by all people and that day did not have dinner in the hostel. After that back to studies
MilSpec
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Well I went to a Stem College, Actually had to work hard in college. Forget politics and democracy, the only concern was to survive the curriculum. Looks like these liberal arts students do not have any substantial work at hand... employment or entrepreneurship seems like a bleak prospect or them in the future.
If all were all stem people, India's GDP would have 5 times of what it is today.
Hindustani78
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Talk about humanities suits to those people or nations who understand human rights .
Government of India is already aware that the rights of Indian citizens are being violated aboard even in the civilized EU nations , so why the EU citizens are getting millions of dollars and good life in Republic of India ?
If wealth is being created its because of the UN charter but when UN Charter is being violated in EU then what type of relations Indian Government is talking about ? Its better that we should close down the embassies and end trade relations.
Preamble
WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
- to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
- to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
- to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
- to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,
Article 1
2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
IndoCarib
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Yes. Her family has sacrificed a lot for this country. Unfortunately she is the one who is maligning her own family. She is brainwashed by secular people around her. Do you think Capt. Saurabh Kaliya's family has not sacrificed for this country ?
Pakistan, not war killed him: Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's father tells Gurmehar
http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2...lls-gurmehar/2419bc4cabaaeb50286d45284a5c6ed7
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The_Showstopper
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Saurabh Kaliya's father is entitled to his opinion, so is Capt Mandeep Singh's father entitled to his.
Gurmehar's Grandfather Backs her, Says 'Don't Teach us Nationalism'
Source: http://www.news18.com/news/india/gu...r-says-dont-teach-us-nationalism-1354323.html
No one is going after Saurabh Kaliya's father for his views, so I hope Bhakts can take a cue from this and look for something else to troll on.
livingdead
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exactly...we got exhibit number 1.
many of our next generation leaders come from student politics.. I am a big fan of student politics that acts as nursery for our future leaders... why do you want to have a generation of workers only... thats my point.
let the market decide, with automation, the workers will have less work to do, and will spend time in more leisurely pursuit.. things that makes us human..
we do need workers.. we do need food, clothes, home.. these basics will be fulfilled by workers.. and we need innovation in science and tech that will make our lives easier... but is that all to life?
I have nothing against STEM people, society needs them... they are the base of pizza... but i need toppings as well.... like I said, I will hate to have people around me who don't stop to ponder and think for a moment human conditions...
I want hard working doctors, scientists and businessmen.. I also want good actors, footballers, poets, historians and politicians...
Soumitra
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all "leaders" produced by student politics are politicians. Yes we need politicians. but we need scientists, doctors, engineers much more than politicinas because they are the ones to take India forward.
and many of these student leaders are doing politics on tax payers money. 90% are from universities highly subsidized by govt. It is my belief that the subsidy is given for their education. Why cant they simply complete their 3-4 years of education and then do whatever politics they want to do.
It is like you take an education loan and instead of paying your fees you spend it on frivalous luxuries
Cherokee
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Copied from someone on fb :
Here's a conversation I heard recently online:
Gurmehar: I think India and Pakistan need to move beyond our mutual hatred and the blame games we play that are costing the lives of many of our best people, like my dad.
Sehwag: I think it's very naïve to think it's that easy. India has adopted a non-aggressive posture but time and time again we've been sucker punched by Pakistan. If we get idealistically complacent then we risk losing more good soldiers needlessly, which would be a tragedy.
Hooda: Beautifully put Sehwag. I completely agree with you.
Rijiju: Gurmehar, what you're saying sounds nice in theory but it's a terrible idea in practice. I think you're paying too much attention to the ideas of people who don't understand the grim realities of military strategy and geopolitics. I do not think your father would have held the same views, given the experience he had facing these realities.
But this is what many people heard:
Gurmehar: I think we should let Pakistanis kill Indians without doing anything about it. The lives of our jawans are worthless.
Sehwag: Shut up you dumb woman. All women are dumb. They have no right to speak
Hooda: Damn right. You prostitute. Women have no morals.
Rijiju: You should be raped for being anti-national.
I think social media is making it so hard for us to hear what anyone is saying. It's all lost in the din of insults and invectives.
I think the right wing is nuts to think that Gurmehar is an anti-national terrorist sympathiser. I think the left wing is nuts to conclude that Sehwag, Hooda, are misogynist bullies.
I think Gurmehar has the right to express her opinions (which I agree with) in a colourful impactful way using videos and placards. I think Sehwag has the right to sardonically disagree (a view I don't share). I think Hooda has the right to laugh at the way Sehwag expressed himself (I personally didn't think it was especially witty or intelligent, nor was I disgusted or appalled in any way).
We are a nation struggling to understand how to handle free speech, in particular on social media, without freaking out. To create the value out of the conversations that social media allows for we need to separate legitimate arguments from illegitimate arguments.
The fact that Gurmehar is the daughter of a soldier who was killed is irrelevant and both the right and left are trying to use the fact. She is a citizen of India entitled to free speech, and whose daughter she is adds no weight to her opinion. Nor does it detract from it. Her words are not automatically gilt laden nor do they need to be guilt laden.
The fact that Gurmehar is 20 is irrelevant and both the right and the left are trying to use it. The right is trying to imply that she's young and foolish and the left is implying that she's young and so she shouldn't be bullied. Both are equally patronising. The fact is that she's an adult, capable of expressing her own opinions creatively online and capable of handling people vehemently disagreeing with those views online.
The fact that Gurmehar is a woman is irrelevant and both the left and right are trying to use it. The extreme right wing nutcases are threatening her with rape, and using sexual slurs to describe her thinking it will shut her up. And the left is implying that Sehwag and Hooda must automatically be misogynist because they disagreed with a woman. Well actually it is possible for a man to disagree with a woman without being a misogynist and it is possible for a woman to disagree with a man without being a misandrist. A woman's views neither need to be discounted because she is a woman, nor do they become immune to criticism because she is a woman. The fact that she's a woman is actually irrelevant to the validity, or the lack of it, of her argument.
The fact that Sehwag & Hooda are rich and famous compared to Gurmehar is irrelevant and both the left and right are trying to use it. The right is effectively saying that Sehwag is a great batsman who has served India with distinction for many years (I agree) and so his views on geopolitics carry weight (No. Talented batsmen are not necessarily more astute about military strategy than students). And that Gurmehar is a nobody and should focus on her studies (No. Students are entitled to their opinions and education is as much about standing for your principles as learning your subject). The left is implying that Sehwag and Hooda are bullies because they are better known. No. Their fame and riches do not preclude them from having an opinion and expressing it. On the one hand we deride our public figures for not taking a stance on any sensitive issues and then we abuse them and tell them to focus on their job when they do. Well.. when they take a stance that is different from our take on the subject that is. Public figures are also allowed to express their opinions and in a democracy and certainly in the area of truth and free speech we are all equals.
I have been taking time out of fb to reconsider my own posts. I have been accused (usually by the right wing) of spreading hate and seeing the hysteria and extremely triggered responses of both the right and left, I want to give myself time to review my old posts and see if I have been guilty of the same lack of balance that I'm seeing now.
The one thing I think that all rational people from the left and right can agree on is that all the guys who accused Gurmehar with rape threats should be tracked down and put in prison for a little while.
So they can experience what it feels like to live in fear of rape
;-)
#WeAreTheSilentMajority
Here's a conversation I heard recently online:
Gurmehar: I think India and Pakistan need to move beyond our mutual hatred and the blame games we play that are costing the lives of many of our best people, like my dad.
Sehwag: I think it's very naïve to think it's that easy. India has adopted a non-aggressive posture but time and time again we've been sucker punched by Pakistan. If we get idealistically complacent then we risk losing more good soldiers needlessly, which would be a tragedy.
Hooda: Beautifully put Sehwag. I completely agree with you.
Rijiju: Gurmehar, what you're saying sounds nice in theory but it's a terrible idea in practice. I think you're paying too much attention to the ideas of people who don't understand the grim realities of military strategy and geopolitics. I do not think your father would have held the same views, given the experience he had facing these realities.
But this is what many people heard:
Gurmehar: I think we should let Pakistanis kill Indians without doing anything about it. The lives of our jawans are worthless.
Sehwag: Shut up you dumb woman. All women are dumb. They have no right to speak
Hooda: Damn right. You prostitute. Women have no morals.
Rijiju: You should be raped for being anti-national.
I think social media is making it so hard for us to hear what anyone is saying. It's all lost in the din of insults and invectives.
I think the right wing is nuts to think that Gurmehar is an anti-national terrorist sympathiser. I think the left wing is nuts to conclude that Sehwag, Hooda, are misogynist bullies.
I think Gurmehar has the right to express her opinions (which I agree with) in a colourful impactful way using videos and placards. I think Sehwag has the right to sardonically disagree (a view I don't share). I think Hooda has the right to laugh at the way Sehwag expressed himself (I personally didn't think it was especially witty or intelligent, nor was I disgusted or appalled in any way).
We are a nation struggling to understand how to handle free speech, in particular on social media, without freaking out. To create the value out of the conversations that social media allows for we need to separate legitimate arguments from illegitimate arguments.
The fact that Gurmehar is the daughter of a soldier who was killed is irrelevant and both the right and left are trying to use the fact. She is a citizen of India entitled to free speech, and whose daughter she is adds no weight to her opinion. Nor does it detract from it. Her words are not automatically gilt laden nor do they need to be guilt laden.
The fact that Gurmehar is 20 is irrelevant and both the right and the left are trying to use it. The right is trying to imply that she's young and foolish and the left is implying that she's young and so she shouldn't be bullied. Both are equally patronising. The fact is that she's an adult, capable of expressing her own opinions creatively online and capable of handling people vehemently disagreeing with those views online.
The fact that Gurmehar is a woman is irrelevant and both the left and right are trying to use it. The extreme right wing nutcases are threatening her with rape, and using sexual slurs to describe her thinking it will shut her up. And the left is implying that Sehwag and Hooda must automatically be misogynist because they disagreed with a woman. Well actually it is possible for a man to disagree with a woman without being a misogynist and it is possible for a woman to disagree with a man without being a misandrist. A woman's views neither need to be discounted because she is a woman, nor do they become immune to criticism because she is a woman. The fact that she's a woman is actually irrelevant to the validity, or the lack of it, of her argument.
The fact that Sehwag & Hooda are rich and famous compared to Gurmehar is irrelevant and both the left and right are trying to use it. The right is effectively saying that Sehwag is a great batsman who has served India with distinction for many years (I agree) and so his views on geopolitics carry weight (No. Talented batsmen are not necessarily more astute about military strategy than students). And that Gurmehar is a nobody and should focus on her studies (No. Students are entitled to their opinions and education is as much about standing for your principles as learning your subject). The left is implying that Sehwag and Hooda are bullies because they are better known. No. Their fame and riches do not preclude them from having an opinion and expressing it. On the one hand we deride our public figures for not taking a stance on any sensitive issues and then we abuse them and tell them to focus on their job when they do. Well.. when they take a stance that is different from our take on the subject that is. Public figures are also allowed to express their opinions and in a democracy and certainly in the area of truth and free speech we are all equals.
I have been taking time out of fb to reconsider my own posts. I have been accused (usually by the right wing) of spreading hate and seeing the hysteria and extremely triggered responses of both the right and left, I want to give myself time to review my old posts and see if I have been guilty of the same lack of balance that I'm seeing now.
The one thing I think that all rational people from the left and right can agree on is that all the guys who accused Gurmehar with rape threats should be tracked down and put in prison for a little while.
So they can experience what it feels like to live in fear of rape
#WeAreTheSilentMajority
WOW.What a gem,
"We are a nation struggling to understand how to handle free speech, in particular on social media, without freaking out. "
LOL.....sure Hindus with no concept of "blasphemy" or "blasphemy law" don't know how to Handle free speech.
I guess we need to learn "Free speech" from the COMMUNISTS and from Nations that have a history of "Slavery" and "Blasphemy"
Love this part too,
"I think the right wing is nuts to think that Gurmehar is an anti-national terrorist sympathiser.".
Talk about generalization and prejudiced opinion.
"We are a nation struggling to understand how to handle free speech, in particular on social media, without freaking out. "
LOL.....sure Hindus with no concept of "blasphemy" or "blasphemy law" don't know how to Handle free speech.
I guess we need to learn "Free speech" from the COMMUNISTS and from Nations that have a history of "Slavery" and "Blasphemy"
Love this part too,
"I think the right wing is nuts to think that Gurmehar is an anti-national terrorist sympathiser.".
Talk about generalization and prejudiced opinion.
Soumitra
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A good satarical take on JNUietes and their culture of protest
JNU student showing no interest in politics, Parents shocked
02, Mar 2017 By AdityaSachan
New Delhi: Dheemu Yadav, a JNU student, is showing no interest whatsoever in politics. Dheemu is ignoring both left and right wing groups active in and around campus. Instead of focusing on politics, he has started preparing for entrance exams and interviews to get a regular desk job after graduation. This decision has sent Dheemu’s parents into shock and disappointment.
When asked, his father said, “We had high hopes for our son when he joined JNU but he became a serious student who attends all his classes. He never stayed back in college canteens, never joined any protests or did any protest march in last 2 years. We thought may be after some time he will improve and make us proud but we haven’t seen any improvement. I even asked him to join twitter and post something offensive regularly but all he did was study, help his mother and clean his room. I even used to switch TV to news channels to get him to debate and start any argument but to my disappointment, he used to see only business news and watch discovery channel.”
Echoing his father’s sentiments, Dheemu’s mother said ,”We thought we will have a Rajya Sabha MP in the family in a few decades if he goes to JNU. Disappointingly, he is showing no inclination towards politics. I am sure our son has those political instincts but his bad company is keeping them suppressed. He has become friends with all those IIT guys who talk about books and jobs all the time, ruining our son’s career prospects.”
“I have started telling Dheemu about my friends’ kids who have made them proud by joining protests, getting arrested, and doing other sensational things over internet. Evidently, I failed to inspire him as last week, I saw Dheemu printing his resume so that he can attend a regular job interview. We bought the printer so that he could print protest slogans but look at him now. I am unsure what to do now”, Dheemu’s mother said before breaking down into tears.
http://www.fakingnews.firstpost.com/india/jnu-student-prepares-regular-job-parents-shocked-19626
JNU student showing no interest in politics, Parents shocked
02, Mar 2017 By AdityaSachan
New Delhi: Dheemu Yadav, a JNU student, is showing no interest whatsoever in politics. Dheemu is ignoring both left and right wing groups active in and around campus. Instead of focusing on politics, he has started preparing for entrance exams and interviews to get a regular desk job after graduation. This decision has sent Dheemu’s parents into shock and disappointment.
When asked, his father said, “We had high hopes for our son when he joined JNU but he became a serious student who attends all his classes. He never stayed back in college canteens, never joined any protests or did any protest march in last 2 years. We thought may be after some time he will improve and make us proud but we haven’t seen any improvement. I even asked him to join twitter and post something offensive regularly but all he did was study, help his mother and clean his room. I even used to switch TV to news channels to get him to debate and start any argument but to my disappointment, he used to see only business news and watch discovery channel.”
Echoing his father’s sentiments, Dheemu’s mother said ,”We thought we will have a Rajya Sabha MP in the family in a few decades if he goes to JNU. Disappointingly, he is showing no inclination towards politics. I am sure our son has those political instincts but his bad company is keeping them suppressed. He has become friends with all those IIT guys who talk about books and jobs all the time, ruining our son’s career prospects.”
“I have started telling Dheemu about my friends’ kids who have made them proud by joining protests, getting arrested, and doing other sensational things over internet. Evidently, I failed to inspire him as last week, I saw Dheemu printing his resume so that he can attend a regular job interview. We bought the printer so that he could print protest slogans but look at him now. I am unsure what to do now”, Dheemu’s mother said before breaking down into tears.
http://www.fakingnews.firstpost.com/india/jnu-student-prepares-regular-job-parents-shocked-19626
livingdead
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that money is a small price to pay.. and a tiny percentage of student are in active politics.. nobody stopping us from increasing medical seats, I think it should be increased.. but lets not create a generation of mindless zombies who will only do 'yes sir' because they got to study. I was thankful for having a student leader when I was studying, who can stop arbitrariness of college administration, sure they sometimes disrupt class, but still they had student's welfare in their mind(unlike some professors who only want money or simply are not interested in teaching). I was a staunch BJP supporter back then and spend many hours arguing with my communist friends... I find it very fruitful in later life... I was too a studious type, a timid goal oriented guy, who could not engage in politics let alone take leadership because it will fcuk up my 'career'...(what a fool I was but who knows future)
if at all its possible, they should try to reduce money and muscle from student politics...
Among the people who can get into politics, we got rich who got money, and then children of politicians, and third, people who can handle violence... students(that go on to become career politician) give our politics a healthy mix.. a much needed gray matter thats a must for policy making...
btw am not saying student politicians should be given any leeway in exams... they will sit like rest of us.. just like you can wish to spend time playing video games, some engage in active politics... its a high risk career.. mind you.
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Soumitra
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Gurmehar, Sehwag and Akhtar: Hypocrisy on free speech unmasked
Do we want celebrities to take a line or sit on the fence and be politically correct all the time?
POLITICS
| SIMPLY PUT | 4-minute read | 03-03-2017
SHIVANI GUPTA
@shivanigupta_5
Virender Sehwag uses her logic to poke holes in it, he is a troll and a bully. If he had supported her, he would have been hailed. So basically you can only agree with her. Freedom of speech be damned.
And do we want celebrities to take a line or sit on the fence and be politically correct all the time? Let us make up our mind! No, we only want them to speak when we like what they have to say and when it suits our narrative!
People are openly saying, "what was the need for Sehwag to speak?" It is not your call, dammit. He will speak when he wants to. Are the double standards making you dizzy already?
And no, you can't blame him for actual abuse that came Gurmehar's way. He is not responsible for people who cowardly issue rape threats on Twitter. That would be like saying Gurmehar's point about Pakistan not being responsible for her father's death strengthens terrorists.
If she is brave and an adult, can she not handle disagreement?
Both arguments are bogus. (Sehwag has had to since tweet a clarification, saying he was only being facetious and condemns the threats made to Gurmehar.)
And when Javed Akhtar, usually so balanced and nuanced, actually bullies and mocks sports heroes Sehwag and Yogeshwar Dutt, no one finds that problematic. Calling someone "hardly literate" to demean them, and take away their voice, is both intolerant and elitist.
Are only highly educated people supposed to opine on Twitter? Several who found Sehwag a bully, hailed Akhtar. Ask them why, and they will say Sehwag deserved it. (Akhtar has since realised his words were "harsh".)
Oh, is that how we decide who should be mocked and bullied and trolled? Who decides who deserves it after all? Why not condemn all trolling?
This entire debate is a matter of convenience and has been so since the start of the "intolerance" fire. People's skin becomes pretty thin when it suits them. They can't even handle a little bit of difference of opinion. Even with humour or civility.
But when they want to hear something, they ask everyone else to develop a thick skin and not get offended all the time. There is no winning.
Then look at the political hypocrisy of it all. CPI(M) general secretary Sitaram Yechury became the first to drag religion into the entire debate when he parachuted to the campus to milk the controversy. He said: "Our nationalism is 'we are Indian' not 'who is a Hindu'."
Why make this about religion at all? Should he have not shown more maturity? Why no outrage over his comment to needlessly draw religious lines into a students' campus issue when it is already hot. No one asked "what was the need to say this?" Imagine if a right-winger had used religion first.
If it is about religion then let's say so openly. No judgment. We can handle it. But of course no one will. What they will do, is conveniently stay quiet about what happened to Shazia Ilmi.
There will be no marches for her being denied to speak on triple talaq at JNU. And so will continue the fight on freedom of speech.
Do we want celebrities to take a line or sit on the fence and be politically correct all the time?
POLITICS
| SIMPLY PUT | 4-minute read | 03-03-2017
SHIVANI GUPTA
@shivanigupta_5
Virender Sehwag uses her logic to poke holes in it, he is a troll and a bully. If he had supported her, he would have been hailed. So basically you can only agree with her. Freedom of speech be damned.
And do we want celebrities to take a line or sit on the fence and be politically correct all the time? Let us make up our mind! No, we only want them to speak when we like what they have to say and when it suits our narrative!
People are openly saying, "what was the need for Sehwag to speak?" It is not your call, dammit. He will speak when he wants to. Are the double standards making you dizzy already?
And no, you can't blame him for actual abuse that came Gurmehar's way. He is not responsible for people who cowardly issue rape threats on Twitter. That would be like saying Gurmehar's point about Pakistan not being responsible for her father's death strengthens terrorists.
If she is brave and an adult, can she not handle disagreement?
Both arguments are bogus. (Sehwag has had to since tweet a clarification, saying he was only being facetious and condemns the threats made to Gurmehar.)
And when Javed Akhtar, usually so balanced and nuanced, actually bullies and mocks sports heroes Sehwag and Yogeshwar Dutt, no one finds that problematic. Calling someone "hardly literate" to demean them, and take away their voice, is both intolerant and elitist.
Are only highly educated people supposed to opine on Twitter? Several who found Sehwag a bully, hailed Akhtar. Ask them why, and they will say Sehwag deserved it. (Akhtar has since realised his words were "harsh".)
Oh, is that how we decide who should be mocked and bullied and trolled? Who decides who deserves it after all? Why not condemn all trolling?
This entire debate is a matter of convenience and has been so since the start of the "intolerance" fire. People's skin becomes pretty thin when it suits them. They can't even handle a little bit of difference of opinion. Even with humour or civility.
But when they want to hear something, they ask everyone else to develop a thick skin and not get offended all the time. There is no winning.
Then look at the political hypocrisy of it all. CPI(M) general secretary Sitaram Yechury became the first to drag religion into the entire debate when he parachuted to the campus to milk the controversy. He said: "Our nationalism is 'we are Indian' not 'who is a Hindu'."
Why make this about religion at all? Should he have not shown more maturity? Why no outrage over his comment to needlessly draw religious lines into a students' campus issue when it is already hot. No one asked "what was the need to say this?" Imagine if a right-winger had used religion first.
If it is about religion then let's say so openly. No judgment. We can handle it. But of course no one will. What they will do, is conveniently stay quiet about what happened to Shazia Ilmi.
There will be no marches for her being denied to speak on triple talaq at JNU. And so will continue the fight on freedom of speech.
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