Norway plans to order five P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol planes

[Zarvan]

(C) The Australian Department of Defence
Norway plans to order five Boeing Co P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol planes to maintain its surveillance capacity and meet future security challenges, the NATO country’s Defence Ministry said.

That was reported by Joachim Dagenborg, Reuters.

Norway’s long maritime border with neighbouring Russia has become a renewed focus for the country’s military planners following the Russian annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea region. Norway’s territorial waters also stretch far into the Arctic.

Neighbouring Sweden and Finland, which are not in the NATO alliance, have also expressed concerns about incursions by Russian submarines and other naval vessels.

“The new security situation increases our demand for situational awareness in our own vicinity. The ability to handle current and future challenges must therefore be strengthened,” Defence Minister Ine Eriksen Soereide said.

“The introduction of the Poseidon aircraft is crucial for Norway to maintain a leading position and expertise on strategic conditions in northern areas,” she said in the statement released late on Friday. The statement did not specifically mention Russia.

The submarine-hunting patrol planes will replace Norway’s current fleet of six P-3 Orion and three DA-20 Jet Falcon aircraft and are expected to be delivered in 2021 and 2022. Norway will also buy related intelligence equipment, the ministry said.

http://defence-blog.com/news/norway-plans-to-order-five-p-8a-poseidon-maritime-patrol-planes.html

 

[Fenrir]

The submarine-hunting patrol planes will replace Norway’s current fleet of six P-3 Orion

Four anti-submarine P-3Cs.

Two maritime patrol P-3Ns.

The N model has been modified to support Coast Guard missions, in addition to MPA/ASW. One is seen here dropping and air-launched survival kit.

three DA-20 Jet Falcon aircraft

Interesting. The DA20 is an electronic warfare aircraft, not an MPA/ASW platform.

 

[maxpayne]

What abt existing P3Cs? Wanna sell?

 

[Fenrir]

Norway has the world's 7th largest coastline - beating out nations like China, the US, Brazil and India.- and concerns as far away as Antarctic.

Having a high endurance, high tech solution like the P-8A represents a major upgrade in capabilities. The P-3C/N is a very good platform and I'll be sad to see them go, but the P-8 is on a whole different level.

They'll need to be winterized however, as Norway gets pretty cold and snowy (-50C isn't uncommon in central Norway) and that they'll be tasked with patrolling the frigged North and Norwegian Seas, as well as Arctic airspace.

Wanna sell?

I'm sure Poland will be happy with their new aircraft. Ex-Norwegian equipment tends to go to either Denmark or Poland.

 

[Penguin]

Interesting. The DA20 is an electronic warfare aircraft, not an MPA/ASW platform.

"The Royal Norwegian Air Force operates a small fleet of Falcon DA20ECM aircraft in the electronic warfare role. Built in France as the Dassault Falcon 200 and originally designed as a business jet, the type soon found use with military forces and was modified to undertake maritime surveillance, electronic warfare and other roles.

The DA20 is operated by 717 Squadron at Gardermoen Air Base and crews are trained to disrupt enemy electromagnetic signals and collect electronic intelligence. One of the aircraft is configured as a transport aircraft for military personnel, with a capacity for carrying eight passengers over 1,600 nautical miles.
"
http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/vi...ght/royal-norwegian-air-force-falcon-da20-ecm

"DA-20's main tasks include calibration of navigation- and geo-localising radar systems, calibration of navigation and approach remedies as well as training national and allied forces in electronic warfare. They also conduct individual training in order to keep the crew operational, and also provide VIP transport for the royal family, the Defence Minister and the Chief of Defence. "
http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/vi...ght/royal-norwegian-air-force-falcon-da20-ecm

"The 717 Squadron, with two of its DA-20 Falcon Jet, represents Norway's Airborne Electronic Warfare (EK - Elektronisk Krigførings) - capacity. The aircraft can both jam (ie, disrupt a possible opponent of electromagnetic signals) in the appropriate frequency bands and operate electronic information collection, but the system is basically designed for the training of radar operators, self-protection and tactics development."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/no-717-skv.htm

I'm sure Poland will be happy with their new aircraft. Ex-Norwegian equipment tends to go to either Denmark or Poland.

Not sure who needs them more. Poland uses seven PZL M28B Bryza 1R (equipped with: 360° Search and Surveillance Radar ASR-400, Link-11 datalink) plus one 1RM Bis ((equipped with: 360° Search and Surveillance Radar ARS-800-2, ejection of single-use hydro-acoustic sonobuoys, Thermal Imaging System (FLIR), magnetic anomaly detector, Link-11 datalink), while Denmark uses 4 Bombardier Challenger CL 604 for surveillance / maritime patrol

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Norway is in a tough region of world

 

[Fenrir]

"The Royal Norwegian Air Force operates a small fleet of Falcon DA20ECM aircraft in the electronic warfare role. Built in France as the Dassault Falcon 200 and originally designed as a business jet, the type soon found use with military forces and was modified to undertake maritime surveillance, electronic warfare and other roles.

I've known we operated a few (the pics of the DA20s are Norwegian birds from the 717 Squadron), but it's interesting to see them phased out in favor of the P-8. How's the P-8's electronic warfare capability compare? For SIGINT they're well equipped with a handful of nifty add-ons.

But jamming or offensive electronic support capabilities? I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure if the P-8 even has this capability. I'm guessing there'll be some Norwegian specific gear added to the P-8 to improve their offensive ECM capabilities.

We also use a fleet of Learjets for certifying allied vessels during NEMO trials (NATO electro-magnetic operations trials) and for electronic warfare, so I wonder if they'll be phased out too.

Not sure who needs them more.

While Denmark also has to cover the North Sea, Skagerrak Strait and parts of the Baltic Sea, it's navy and air force are better equipped then Poland's and should be better positioned to patrol their waters and airspace. Norway, France and the UK also help patrol the seas and airspace to the West of Denmark.

Poland doesn't really have the luxury of support from regional nations other then Sweden and Finland, and occasionally German, as Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia have even more limited assets, and it doesn't exactly have a potent navy either with two OHPs, one Kilo, four ex-Norwegian Kobben which are approaching 60 years old and a handful of fast attack craft and corvettes. They're modernizing their navy with new OPVs and corvettes, but it's not exactly well equipped to deal with irritants in the region.

A few P-3Cs would go along way to improving Poland's ability to contribute to NATO's tracking of underwater and surface assets in the region and go along way to providing Poland with a more credible deterrence against enemy shipping, alongside coastal NSM batteries.

A case can be made for either nation, and either could definitely use these airframes, but I think Poland could use them a bit more.

....

For those interested, the pictures of the Polish Navy come from this thread - https://defence.pk/threads/polish-military.135523/page-6

Norway is in a tough region of world

Oh yeah, Iceland's been a big pain in the butt recently. I hear they increased their military's size from two to three personnel!

What exactly makes the region tough? A friendly Europe, a more assertive, but not hostile Russia and the handful of Americans... not seeing it honestly.

What abt existing P3Cs? Wanna sell?

The less sarcastic explanation is this:

Norway doesn't have a positive defense relationship with Pakistan. Political relations yes, defense relations no. Most of our ex-military gear is sold to other, lesser equipped European nations typically in the Baltic region and while these airframes will most likely be sold rather then scrapped or put into storage, them being sold to Pakistan is a longshot at best.

I can't name you a single piece of equipment Pakistan uses that was either designed or produced in Norway or came from ex-Norwegian stocks, though I do know that Pakistan did inquire about our F-16s once they're retired in favor of the F-35.

Pakistan can ask of course, and it's not unreasonable for Norway to consider the request, there's just no precedent for such sales happening and I wouldn't count on them going to Pakistan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Tough like can't imagine training and jumping into arctic water

PS must be quite a challenge to keep the ships and planes operation in that temperature in such extreme north areas of world

I actually never knew that Norway controled so much of the north areas (or lays claim to so much coast line) looks wide as going from Egypt to Morocco in African map comparison.

 

[Fenrir]

I actually never knew that Norway controled so much of the north areas (or lays claim to so much coast line) looks wide as going from Egypt to Morocco in African map comparison.

No lays to claim, those are the internationally recognized territorial waters of Norway - roughly the size of mainland China or the Continental United States. In the North the waters extend from the Norwegian coastline and the islands of Jan Mayen and Svalbard, both of which extend Norway's territory into Arctic space.

Norway and Russia are the only to Arctic claimants to recognize each others maritime borders.

Jan Mayen is the island closer to Iceland.

Svalbard is North of Hammerfest, Norway.

In the South, Norway has sovereignty over Bouvet Island and lays claim to Queen Maud's Land and Peter I Island.

It's the vastness of Norwegian waters and military activities on outlaying islands, plus the high level of maritime traffic from oilers, fishers, transport and military vessels that mandates the necessity of a high endurance MPA like the P-3 or P-8.

Norway also has two Coast Guards, an inner and outer, armed with heavy icebreakers and high endurance OPVs like KV Svalbard to help ensure the safety and security of our territorial waterways.

All together Norway has 70 ships and around 100 aircraft dedicated to keeping those waters firmly under Norwegian control.

PS must be quite a challenge to keep the ships and planes operation in that temperature in such extreme north areas of world.

From the HK416N to the Leopard 2A4NO and the P-3N, most gear that Norway procures or procures from international suppliers is winterized to handle the rigors of extreme low temperatures, snow and wetness. The humidity has been a larger problem then the cold has.

 

[Penguin]

I've known we operated a few (the pics of the DA20s are Norwegian birds from the 717 Squadron), but it's interesting to see them phased out in favor of the P-8. How's the P-8's electronic warfare capability compare? For SIGINT they're well equipped with a handful of nifty add-ons.

But jamming or offensive electronic support capabilities? I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure if the P-8 even has this capability. I'm guessing there'll be some Norwegian specific gear added to the P-8 to improve their offensive ECM capabilities.

MULTI-INT (Multiple Intelligence) Pod by Argon ST, a Boeing subsidiary? This uses Argon ST’s Lighthouse System Architecture, also used on the Navy’s EP-3E Orion electronic reconnaissance aircraft. The pod includes signals intelligence collection systems. The Navy is retiring the EP-3E without a direct platform replacement, but is expected to field roll-on/roll-off systems on the P-8A as a partial solution, perhaps including podded sensors.
http://seapowermagazine.org/stories...016/05/13/navy-p-8a-flies-with-mulit-int-pod/
https://p8poseidongodofthesea.org/2016/05/13/navy-p-8a-flies-with-mulit-int-pod/

Multi-INT is an abbreviation for multiple intelligence, and it refers to the fusion or correlation of different types of data into a more complete picture.
http://www.harrisgeospatial.com/Hom...ticleID/13603/Operationalizing-Multi-INT.aspx

AND/OR

Boeing Creating New Multi-Mission Pod For P-8 Poseidon
Defense Daily | 03/09/2016 |
Boeing [BA] is developing a multi-mission pod for its P-8 Poseidon aircraft used by the Navy to hunt submarines, a company official said March 3.The company is using internal research and development money to fund the pod, which would combine communications intelligence,...

http://www.defensedaily.com/boeing-creating-new-multi-mission-pod-for-p-8-poseidon/

 

[maxpayne]

Pakistan can ask of course, and it's not unreasonable for Norway to consider the request, there's just no precedent for such sales happening and I wouldn't count on them going to Pakistan.

Most of ur post is true. Main reason is difference of weapons / assets used by both coutries. However, whereever asset matches, we do inquire same as u have mentioned F16s. Pak must also contact Norway again for their decision regarding P3Cs bcz we hav lost 2 during Mehran attack. Cheers