Northeast Asia Geostrategic Forum

[TaiShang]

U.S. Complains To China About North Korea's Attendance At Summit

Keep them whining. What is better than deescalation? Throwing ‘tremendous unmanned' missiles at North Korea?

 

[samsara]

Keep them whining. What is better than deescalation? Throwing ‘tremendous unmanned' missiles at North Korea?

What to wonder indeed... look at the situation there domestically, no surprise at all they are even having endless heated disputes among various parties within their own border

 

[TaiShang]

What to wonder indeed... look at the situation there domestically, no surprise at all they are even having endless heated disputes among various parties within their own border

US domestic politics is reminiscent of a very divided, factionalized society. Its foreign policy is a bad extension of their domestic politics coupled with militarism.

The interesting development would be the militarization of US domestic politics. That's would be the end of cycle, indeed.

 

[TaiShang]

China Focus: Preferential policies show Chinese mainland'sgoodwill and sincerity, Taiwan experts
(Xinhua) 08:03, May 12, 2017

TAIPEI, May 11 (Xinhua) -- Preferential policies allowing Taiwan residents to work, study and travel on the Chinese mainland embodied the goodwill and sincerity of the Chinese mainland, Taiwan academics told Xinhua Thursday.

The Chinese mainland Wednesday published a series of preferential policies for Taiwan residents, including easier access to transportation, employment, education and legal services.

The move was welcomed by academics in Taiwan, who believed it would help promote peaceful communication and cross-Strait relations.

"Cross-Strait ties have been at a deadlock as the administration of the Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) has refused to recognize the 1992 Consensus," Wang Kunyi, professor at the Graduate Institute of International Affairs and Strategic Studies of Tamkang University, told Xinhua.

"However, these new measures showed that the Chinese mainland, has always and will continue to, adhere to the 1992 Consensus and promote people-to-people exchanges and cooperation, no matter which party holds power on the island," he said.

Ting Jen-fang, professor at the Graduate Institute of Political Economy of Cheng Kung University said not only would the new preferential policies improve the lives of Taiwan residents on the mainland, it would also increase their willingness to work and live there, and gain their support for peaceful development of cross-Strait relations.

Under the new measures, Taiwan residents can be employed in public institutions in six more provincial-level regions and Taiwan academics working on the mainland can apply for state-level research projects, including projects from the National Social Science Fund.

In addition, Taiwan residents can now purchase and collect tickets via self-service ticket machines in train stations in many major cities and provinces.

Lin Hsin-hsiung, Vice President of the Peace Research Center for the Cross-Strait at Shu-Te University, said these measures will have a positive impact on Taiwan residents, and therefore be good for cross-Strait relations.

"The measures are more targeted and detailed this time, with many serving a specific group or occupation. This means the Chinese mainland is opening its market to Taiwan, and more Taiwan residents are expected to benefit from it," Wang said.

In order to help Taiwan graduates from mainland higher education institutions find jobs, the Ministry of Education has told institutions to standardize enrollment regulations and protect the legal rights of Taiwan students, which Ting believed will open new doors for Taiwan graduates.

"Starting salaries for recent graduates in Taiwan are around 30,000 to 40,000 New Taiwan dollars (1,000 to 1,333 U.S. dollars), with very few opportunities in high-end industries. But if they go to the Chinese mainland, they will have a better chance at securing a higher paid job," he said.

"Preferential policies, such as more job opportunities in public institutions, offer Taiwan graduates a better quality of life and allow them to integrate into the Chinese mainland," Ting said.

***

Wow, this seems more than One-Country Two-Systems. It may as well be that unification with Taiwan may actually skip the OCTS stage -- directly into the ultimate One China stage.

 

[Suika]

Is it not interesting about why China can't let go of its claim on Taiwan? They go as far as threatening with a force of a 1,000 ballistic missiles against Taiwan if Taiwan declares themselves officially as an independent country with a new name of "Republic of Taiwan". If those 1,000 ballistic missiles were not pointed at Taiwan, it's a safe bet that the free will of the Taiwanese population would already have declared their official statehood as "Republic of Taiwan".

Taiwan was never deeply Chinese in history anyway. From the other side of the planet, the Portuguese and Spanish controlled parts of Taiwan, formally known as Formosa, before it became a part of China.

The borders of countries expand and shrink throughout all of history, often expanding and shrinking from the heart of the identity of the nation. The island of Formosa was never part of any of the old classical Chinese history of competing kingdoms trying to unite all of China. Formosa became part of China after all of that. The masters of the island changed from foreigner to foreigner.

Independent natives --> Spanish and Portuguese --> Qing --> Imperial Japan --> KMT dictatorship --> democracy of a de facto independent country.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Taiwan was never deeply Chinese in history anyway. From the other side of the planet, the Portuguese and Spanish controlled parts of Taiwan, formally known as Formosa, before it became a part of China.

Independent natives --> Spanish and Portuguese --> Qing --> Imperial Japan --> KMT dictatorship --> democracy of a de facto independent country.

Wrong.

Zheng Chenggong, better known in the West by his Hokkien honorific Koxinga or Coxinga (Chinese: 國姓爺; pinyin: Guóxìngyé; Pe̍h-ōe-jī: Kok-sèng-iâ) was a Ming Dynasty loyalist who resisted the Manchu (Qing Dynasty) conquest of China's southeastern coast. Conquering the Dutch outposts on Taiwan, he established a dynasty which ruled the island as the Kingdom of Tungning. In April 1661, Koxinga led around 400 warships and 25,000 troops from Xiamen via Penghu (the Pescadores) to attack Taiwan, and in the morning of April 30, Koxinga's army landed at what is now Luerhmen in Tainan. After Koxinga's troops landed, they immediately besieged the Dutch, and after numerous attacks, defenses and exchanges of written communication, at the end of January 1662, the Dutch resolved to negotiate and surrender. On February 1, both sides signed a treaty. The Dutch left the goods and property behind at Fort Zeelandia, but all officials, soldiers and ordinary people were free to leave Taiwan, with their personal belongings and supplies. On February 9, the last Dutch governor, Frederick Coijett, handed over the keys to the fort, and led two thousand people back, by sea, to Batavia (modern-day Jakarta), thereby ending 38 years of Dutch rule in Taiwan, and formally establishing the first Han Chinese political rule in the history of Taiwan.

Following the death of Zheng Jing in 1681, the lack of an official heir meant rule of Taiwan would pass to his illegitimate son. This caused great division in the government and military powers, resulting in an exceptionally destructive struggle for the succession. Seizing the advantage presented by the infighting, the Qing Dynasty dispatched their navy with Shi Lang at its head, destroying the Zheng fleet at the Penghu Islands. In 1683, after the Battle of Penghu, Qing troops landed in Taiwan, Zheng Keshuang gave in to the Qing Dynasty's demand for surrender, and his kingdom was incorporated into the Qing Empire as part of Fujian province, ending two decades of rule by the Zheng family, until 1895.

Qing Empire ruled Taiwan since 1683 for 212 year until 1895 when the island of Taiwan (including the Penghu Islands) became a dependency of the Empire of Japan, after Qing China lost the First Sino-Japanese War to Japan and ceded Taiwan Province in the Treaty of Shimonoseki.

After 60 years of Japanese occupation, in 1945 Taiwan resumed to be a province of China, ruled under Republic of China. In 1949 KMT-led Republic of China retreated from Nanjing to Taipei, CCP-led PRC ruled the mainland, till nowadays. Beijing official policy is "两岸同属一中" (Both sides belong to one China) and "一国两制" (One country two system), PRC rules over the territory of Mainland, ROC rules over the territory of Taiwan, both governments and territories belong to one sovereign China.

 

[Stuttgart001]

Is it not interesting about why China can't let go of its claim on Taiwan? They go as far as threatening with a force of a 1,000 ballistic missiles against Taiwan if Taiwan declares themselves officially as an independent country with a new name of "Republic of Taiwan". If those 1,000 ballistic missiles were not pointed at Taiwan, it's a safe bet that the free will of the Taiwanese population would already have declared their official statehood as "Republic of Taiwan".

Taiwan was never deeply Chinese in history anyway. From the other side of the planet, the Portuguese and Spanish controlled parts of Taiwan, formally known as Formosa, before it became a part of China.

The borders of countries expand and shrink throughout all of history, often expanding and shrinking from the heart of the identity of the nation. The island of Formosa was never part of any of the old classical Chinese history of competing kingdoms trying to unite all of China. Formosa became part of China after all of that. The masters of the island changed from foreigner to foreigner.

Independent natives --> Spanish and Portuguese --> Qing --> Imperial Japan --> KMT dictatorship --> democracy of a de facto independent country

Why do not you learn some history before making some statement ?
It is Netherlands used to make two trade posts in Taiwan, and then got kicked off by Zhen Chengong a general of Ming Dynasty.
You are totally ignorant about this history.
Why are you so shameless ?

 

[Shotgunner51]

Anyway, the 3 main points still stand. Taiwan was never part of the old long history of classical China, so it cannot be claimed as inherently Chinese. Second, even the Dutch and Spanish controlled parts of the island before the Chinese had any jurisdiction on any part of it. And third, the great majority of Taiwan's population is not interested in being part of China, but just want good relations with China. Many places have been a part of some other country for over a 100 years and such long history as part of one other country doesn't mean that they want to return to that former power.

As you said, sovereign borders change from time to time, hence there's no definition of "classical China" as opposed to "contemporary China", right? Try draw analogy to Ryukyus/Okinanwa. Just look at the past 4 centuries, since 1661 except the 60 years of Japanese occupaion, Taiwan was ruled by Han government, 22 years as Ming Dynasty loyalist kingdom, 212 years as a province under Qing Empire, by now 72 years under Republic of China. Indigenous tribes only makeup a small portion of the population, which is largely Minnan (Hokkien, Fujian) immigrants that moved to the island since 17th century, and other mainland immigrants that came with KMT after 1949, mostly Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Shanghai and mandarin-speaking Shandong people. It's Shanghai bankers, Zhengjiang entrepreneurs, Tianjin scientists and Shandong engineers who brought wealth and talents to Taiwan after 1949 to embark a new wave of industrialisation that made Taiwan an advanced and prosperous society as it is nowadays.

Taiwan is China culturally, politically, even economically.

 

[TaiShang]

Chinese mainland to set up 6 new cross-Strait exchange bases
Updated: 05 15 , 2017 14:00

BEIJING, May 10 -- Six new cross-Strait exchange bases will be set up to increase communication between people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait, An Fengshan, spokesperson for the Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council, said Wednesday.

The new bases will include a conservation site of the 2008 earthquake in Beichuan County of Sichuan Province, Jingdezhen China Ceramics Museum in Jiangxi Province, and a Buddhist cultural park in Fujian Province, An said.

The bases will act as communication platforms for people from both sides of the Taiwan Strait to understand history and culture, the spokesperson added.

A total of 49 exchanges bases have already been set up on the Chinese mainland since 2009, including the Confucius Temple in east China's Shandong Province.

 

[Suika]

As you said, sovereign borders change from time to time, hence there's no definition of "classical China" as opposed to "contemporary China", right? Try draw analogy to Ryukyus/Okinanwa. Just look at the past 4 centuries, since 1661 except the 60 years of Japanese occupaion, Taiwan was ruled by Han government, 212 years as a province under Qing Empire, by now 72 years under Republic of China. Taiwan is China culturally, and politically.

True that Okinawa was part of Japan for a much shorter period of time. But the Okinawans by majority have no problem still being part of Japan. There is the existence of the Ryukyu independent movement, and outside forces try to excite that movement, but it is has very small support. But suppose the movement did gain more support, and as much as the Japanese government would not like it, humanistically speaking, a referendum vote probably should be held so that the Okinawans can decide whether or not to remain part of Japan or not. This kind of proposal has other examples such as with Scotland within the United Kingdom or Barcelona in Spain. So this argument might carry some weight coming from a Westerner. But from someone of China. The argument has no weight at all because China cannot use themselves as an example. First off, in regards to Taiwan, they ignore the voice of the majority and still claim Taiwan. Also if such referendum was to be held in other parts of China, like Tibet, or Xinjiang, the vote to separate stands a good chance of passing. But the CCP government will never even slightly tease the slightest possibility of even a proposal to such an idea.

I agree that a lot of Chinese culture, especially from the Chinese local areas on the east coastal area of the mainland, is in Taiwan because of the long interchange across the strait and of the 212 years as part of China. But that is not a unique case. Lots of similar examples can be found in both the British empire and the Spanish empire. It is why so much of the world speak those two languages and the ethnic identity can still be seen in some of the countries today. I'm sure more examples can also be found.

But I disagree politically. Taiwan is a democracy. China is not. And the concept of old China and today's China does not embrace democracy for high level leadership. Outside of Taiwan the highest level of democracy exercised by a Chinese body is Hong Kong, as they can elect legislators. But the CCP has been eating away at this feature of Hong Kong, not embracing it.

Edit:
I seem to have responded before your edit in on economic points. Economics is not a mechanism to claim territory.

 

[Shotgunner51]

True that Okinawa was part of Japan for a much shorter period of time. But the Okinawans by majority have no problem still being part of Japan. There is the existence of the Ryukyu independent movement, and outside forces try to excite that movement, but it is has very small support. But suppose the movement did gain more support, and as much as the Japanese government would not like it, humanistically speaking, a referendum vote probably should be held so that the Okinawans can decide whether or not to remain part of Japan or not. This kind of proposal has other examples such as with Scotland within the United Kingdom or Barcelona in Spain. So this argument might carry some weight coming from a Westerner. But from someone of China. The argument has no weight at all because China cannot use themselves as an example. First off, in regards to Taiwan, they ignore the voice of the majority and still claim Taiwan. Also if such referendum was to be held in other parts of China, like Tibet, or Xinjiang, the vote to separate stands a good chance of passing. But the CCP government will never even slightly tease the slightest possibility of even a proposal to such an idea.

I agree that a lot of Chinese culture, especially from the Chinese local areas on the east coastal area of the mainland, is in Taiwan because of the long interchange across the strait and of the 212 years as part of China. But that is not a unique case. Lots of similar examples can be found in both the British empire and the Spanish empire. It is why so much of the world speak those two languages and the ethnic identity can still be seen in some of the countries today. I'm sure more examples can also be found.

But I disagree politically. Taiwan is a democracy. China is not. And the concept of old China and today's China does not embrace democracy for high level leadership. Outside of Taiwan the highest level of democracy exercised by a Chinese body is Hong Kong, as they can elect legislators. But the CCP has been eating away at this feature of Hong Kong, not embracing it.

Edit:
I seem to have responded before your edit in on economic points. Economics is not a mechanism to claim territory.

The writeup about the cause of Taiwan economic prosperity, like its ethnicity makeup, are compelling facts that cultural roots of Taiwan is from Mainland, not from the island, more importantly no entity is claiming territory, because both territories always belong to one greater China, read my previous post about ‘“两岸同属一个中国” and “一国两制”. I also see the difference in political system as a challenge, if not the only obstacle to achieve complete reunification. Politics is a complicated agenda, let's continue in another thread, welcome to invite me to discussion.

 

[Suika]

The writeup about the cause of Taiwan economic prosperity, like its ethnicity makeup, are compelling facts that cultural roots of Taiwan is from Mainland, not from the island, more importantly no entity is claiming territory, because both territories always belong to one greater China, read my previous post about ‘“两岸同属一个中国” and “一国两制”. I also see the difference in political system as a challenge, if not the only obstacle to achieve complete reunification. Politics is a complicated agenda, let's continue in another thread, welcome to invite me to discussion.

There is the political mechanism for Taiwan to unify fully with China. That would be a presidential candidate campaigning on a platform saying that he will unify Taiwan with China. If that kind of candidate gain popularity and wins, then Taiwan will embark on the road of unity with China. But they don't want to do that.

The threat of 1,000 ballistic missiles is what is making the Taiwan not officially abandon the 1 china policy. We all know that they want to.

 

[Shotgunner51]

There is the political mechanism for Taiwan to unify fully with China. That would be a presidential candidate campaigning on a platform saying that he will unify Taiwan with China. If that kind of candidate gain popularity and wins, then Taiwan will embark on the road of unity with China. But they don't want to do that.

The threat of 1,000 ballistic missiles is what is making the Taiwan not officially abandon the 1 china policy. We all know that they want to.

No you won't know, first of all there are 23 million people living in the island, 23 million opinions and voices. Secondly read the map of Republic of China, though they only exercise rule over part of it, the nation is already independent.

 

[Suika]

I don't understand the point of the map, sorry.

Here are the voices of the 23 million population minus those too young.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Here are the voices of the 23 million population minus those too young.

What you posted is just election results, how is it directly related to the your claim that all Taiwanese are against One China policy, as if you know it? When Shinzo Abe was elected, what are the factors, is that a mix of economic, social and diplomatic affairs, or just one topic?

I don't understand the point of the map, sorry.

When you said "PRC has territorial claim on Taiwan", do you what's ROC's territorial claim? Read that map of ROC, it includes Taiwan, Mainland, Nine Dash Lines, Mongolia and others.