North-South Indian divide & idea of "DravidaNadu"

[Cliftonite]

I thought Indian Muslims were totally defeated, until I saw them bravely fight back Hindutva mobs in the Delhi riots. We have to change our thinking and accept that things are changing. New generations mean fresh blood, the same paradigm of beating others with a stick will not work anymore.

With a rising Pakistan, China, BD, and Nepal. You will see far more pressure on India.

Brother remember how many decades it took for the Pakistan movement to take ground. With this Hindu Rashtra nonsense, Hindutvas have sown the seeds of mistrust and rebellion in the hearts of Indian Muslims. It may take years, even decades to show any tangible effect but this will eventually lead to very deep cracks in India. And Muslims will not be the only one affected, the feeling of resentment will spill over into Christians, Sikhs, the tribals and all non Brahmic minorities. May Modi and BJP keep winning with our blessings.

 

[xeuss]

To be honest, I don't see any seccessionist movement in India of any formidable weight. Indians are a servile people. The Dalits are used to being subjugated for 2000+ years, don't expect them to ever rise up. The Sikhs have potential to rise up but they too have been culled very effectively by Hindu Sikh are Dharmic brothers bs mantra. I see some potential in the South because there is a large anti Brahmin sentiment there and also there is a very large Christian community there. North East India too if the Muslims in Assam collude with the secessionists of Manipur and Nagaland.

Sikh movement ended because the separatists started killing and attacking their own people, along with running criminal rackets like extortion. This effectively ended support from its base.

This is what brings down most secessionist movements. The secessionist leadership gets either killed or co-opted and then the common core militants start enriching themselves. They first start attacking the establishment, but when that becomes harder, they then start feeding off their own people - their base.

Though many here won't agree, Kashmir is on the cusp of the same situation. The "hurriyat" has effectively been co-opted and neutralized by India. Other separatist groups have suffered the same fate, with their leadership killed, With no effective leadership, it will be interesting to see where this movement ends up.

 

[Cliftonite]

Sikh movement ended because the separatists started killing and attacking their own people, along with running criminal rackets like extortion. This effectively ended support from its base.

This is what brings down most secessionist movements. The secessionist leadership gets either killed or co-opted and then the common core militants start enriching themselves. They first start attacking the establishment, but when that becomes harder, they then start feeding off their own people - their base.

Though many here won't agree, Kashmir is on the cusp of the same situation. The "hurriyat" has effectively been co-opted and neutralized by India. Other separatist groups have suffered the same fate, with their leadership killed, With no effective leadership, it will be interesting to see where this movement ends up.

With today's changing geopolitics, you never know. Much of the same was said about the Taliban after US invasion and Hezbollah after the Israeli invasion. As long as there is home support, a colonizing power cannot hold on for very long.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Sikh movement ended because the separatists started killing and attacking their own people, along with running criminal rackets like extortion. This effectively ended support from its base.

This is what brings down most secessionist movements. The secessionist leadership gets either killed or co-opted and then the common core militants start enriching themselves. They first start attacking the establishment, but when that becomes harder, they then start feeding off their own people - their base.

We will see what happens with Khalistan 2020.

Though many here won't agree, Kashmir is on the cusp of the same situation. The "hurriyat" has effectively been co-opted and neutralized by India. Other separatist groups have suffered the same fate, with their leadership killed, With no effective leadership, it will be interesting to see where this movement ends up.

Actually, the exact opposite has happened. Kashmiris had resigned themselves to the current situation, with big divisions between pro-Pakistan groups and independence groups against each other. Pro-Indian leadership ruled Kashmir by proxy, which benefited India greatly.

Modi's heavy handed tactics have effectively united the Kashmiris onto one platform and increased recruits for Mujahideen groups fighting the occupation.

I think Burhan Wani's shahadat was the turning point. Now only pro-Pakistan groups have the impetus in Indian occupied Kashmir. There are no more divergent opinions.

Further Imran Khan became a hero of all Kashmiris by bringing up the occupation and its new sinister turn in the UN.

We have received sympathies and support from all over the world, Pakistan is again in the limelight and many nations support our fight against Hindutva.

 

[DHSquare]

I dont know-You tell me what your text books says then we can exchange notes!

Well there u go.... Don't even know such a basic fact wat to speak of exchanging notes

 

[ChennaiDude]

Well there u go.... Don't even know such a basic fact wat to speak of exchanging notes

Ok then-The minute you wrote-"wat"- I know the level of discussion this is going to be- Good chatting - GNite to you.

 

[xeuss]

We will see what happens with Khalistan 2020.

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and were forced to flee India form the backbone of the Khalistan movement.

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and continued to live in India, have no desire to relive those days again.

The generation that was born in the 90s, obviously never experienced what their parents did, so really don't care about Khalistan.

Actually, the exact opposite has happened. Kashmiris had resigned themselves to the current situation, with big divisions between pro-Pakistan groups and independence groups against each other. Pro-Indian leadership ruled Kashmir by proxy, which benefited India greatly.

I understand that you are very optimistic of the situation, but I am not sure what to make of it. In the last two years, starting with the killing of Burhan Wani, the anti-India sentiment has grown. Today there is hardly any pro-India voice left in the Valley. If you recall, I had said that had a free and fair plebiscite been held in the Indian part of J&K prior to 2016, India would have won out quite easily.

However, what has been exposed is the differing agendas at play. From the pro-Indian parties to the Hurriyat to the Pakistan-based separatists. The reality is now that no common Kashmiri trusts any of these entities to fulfill their desires. Whether this transforms into a large scale civil disobedience movement is left to be seen. I don't think it will.

What I think will effectively happen is we will have a large swathe of population that remains disillusioned with India, but at the same time, largely dependent on it, be it for commerce or banking or education or healthcare. Along with it, will exist a low level insurgency that will kill a soldier here or there.

For the mandarins in Delhi and their kings, this is a perfectly acceptable situation.

 

[Cliftonite]

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and were forced to flee India form the backbone of the Khalistan movement.

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and continued to live in India, have no desire to relive those days again.

The generation that was born in the 90s, obviously never experienced what their parents did, so really don't care about Khalistan.




I understand that you are very optimistic of the situation, but I am not sure what to make of it. In the last two years, starting with the killing of Burhan Wani, the anti-India sentiment has grown. Today there is hardly any pro-India voice left in the Valley. If you recall, I had said that had a free and fair plebiscite been held in the Indian part of J&K prior to 2016, India would have won out quite easily.

However, what has been exposed is the differing agendas at play. From the pro-Indian parties to the Hurriyat to the Pakistan-based separatists. The reality is now that no common Kashmiri trusts any of these entities to fulfill their desires. Whether this transforms into a large scale civil disobedience movement is left to be seen. I don't think it will.

What I think will effectively happen is we will have a large swathe of population that remains disillusioned with India, but at the same time, largely dependent on it, be it for commerce or banking or education or healthcare. Along with it, will exist a low level insurgency that will kill a soldier here or there.

For the mandarins in Delhi and their kings, this is a perfectly acceptable situation.

Hindutva chodes are so drunk on power they are thinking of attacking GB to reclaim their 'rightful' land. What do you think this will spell out? Don't forget China has a stake in this too. Remember when a state and that too a far right state becomes so drunk on power that it starts planning of expansionism, it spells its end. It happened to Germany and Japan in 1945, it happened to Russia when it attacked Afghanistan.

I really think you guys have been culled for too long by Hindus, that now you overestimate them in every matter. I respect the Kashmiris for not bowing down, can't say the same about you people.

 

[letsrock]

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and were forced to flee India form the backbone of the Khalistan movement.

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and continued to live in India, have no desire to relive those days again.

The generation that was born in the 90s, obviously never experienced what their parents did, so really don't care about Khalistan.




I understand that you are very optimistic of the situation, but I am not sure what to make of it. In the last two years, starting with the killing of Burhan Wani, the anti-India sentiment has grown. Today there is hardly any pro-India voice left in the Valley. If you recall, I had said that had a free and fair plebiscite been held in the Indian part of J&K prior to 2016, India would have won out quite easily.

However, what has been exposed is the differing agendas at play. From the pro-Indian parties to the Hurriyat to the Pakistan-based separatists. The reality is now that no common Kashmiri trusts any of these entities to fulfill their desires. Whether this transforms into a large scale civil disobedience movement is left to be seen. I don't think it will.

What I think will effectively happen is we will have a large swathe of population that remains disillusioned with India, but at the same time, largely dependent on it, be it for commerce or banking or education or healthcare. Along with it, will exist a low level insurgency that will kill a soldier here or there.

For the mandarins in Delhi and their kings, this is a perfectly acceptable situation.

I think you are underestimating sikh desire to be free of this brahmin empire. In 80s and 90s india still had some secular reputation. Information flows were not this much. And india was able to manipulate sikhs in thinking its futile. Its not the case now.

Recollect how india bans whatsapp or internet at the whiff of any disturbance. kashmir has no internet now for 10 months. India is and always been afraid of information.

All it needs is some scenarios like covid leading to economic collapse leading to liberation of indian people. Which leads to ending of the sameful spectacle of massive defense expenditure in extremely poor region and so many things.

Kashmir-(The Indian Part)- Is a part of India-The Majority of India living in India were asked and all voted for it to be part of India- Now if you want just Kashmir's alone to vote then meet the criteria for that to happen?- So yes please stop being a petulant child.


Roger that- will do....Which thread is that?

Majority of indian were asked? really ? and they voted for kashmir to be part of india even though kashmiris themselves dont want to be ?
another delusional brahminical fellow trolling the forum.

 

[Nilgiri]

And another one to put on ignore is here. Phew! One button press and so much gets flushed from view.

 

[xeuss]

I think you are underestimating sikh desire to be free of this brahmin empire. In 80s and 90s india still had some secular reputation. Information flows were not this much. And india was able to manipulate sikhs in thinking its futile. Its not the case now.

Well lets agree to disagree then. I have my own understanding of the situation, based on what I have observed in India and outside India among the Sikhs.

The Sikhs who fled India in the 1980s, seem to be very adamant and passionate about Khalistan. If you have been to Surrey BC, you know what I mean. I do not see that fervor among the later immigrants and those that live in India.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

If you recall, I had said that had a free and fair plebiscite been held in the Indian part of J&K prior to 2016, India would have won out quite easily.

Maybe in Jammu and Ladakh only, this is not true for the valley.

The reality is now that no common Kashmiri trusts any of these entities to fulfill their desires. Whether this transforms into a large scale civil disobedience movement is left to be seen. I don't think it will.

Wrong again. Pro-Pakistani sentiment in the valley is at an all time high.

What I think will effectively happen is we will have a large swathe of population that remains disillusioned with India, but at the same time, largely dependent on it, be it for commerce or banking or education or healthcare. Along with it, will exist a low level insurgency that will kill a soldier here or there.

Again you are assuming something, which ground reality does not show.

Kashmiris are becoming more and more aggressive in their demands for freedom. Insurgency will become bloodier, and Pakistan will do all it can to help.

I believe that a war between India and Pakistan is not far off.

Imran Khan voiced the same sentiment recently.

 

[Sharma Ji]

We have received sympathies and support from all over the world, Pakistan is again in the limelight and many nations support our fight against Hindutva.

Including the UK and US.

Comrades Burny and Corbun, both of whom got overwhelming mandates from their citizens.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and were forced to flee India form the backbone of the Khalistan movement.

Sikhs that lived through the horrors of the 1980s and continued to live in India, have no desire to relive those days again.

The generation that was born in the 90s, obviously never experienced what their parents did, so really don't care about Khalistan.




I understand that you are very optimistic of the situation, but I am not sure what to make of it. In the last two years, starting with the killing of Burhan Wani, the anti-India sentiment has grown. Today there is hardly any pro-India voice left in the Valley. If you recall, I had said that had a free and fair plebiscite been held in the Indian part of J&K prior to 2016, India would have won out quite easily.

However, what has been exposed is the differing agendas at play. From the pro-Indian parties to the Hurriyat to the Pakistan-based separatists. The reality is now that no common Kashmiri trusts any of these entities to fulfill their desires. Whether this transforms into a large scale civil disobedience movement is left to be seen. I don't think it will.

What I think will effectively happen is we will have a large swathe of population that remains disillusioned with India, but at the same time, largely dependent on it, be it for commerce or banking or education or healthcare. Along with it, will exist a low level insurgency that will kill a soldier here or there.

For the mandarins in Delhi and their kings, this is a perfectly acceptable situation.

Indians have become a servile and docile people. They don't have the stomach or endurance for a revolution.

Forget about secession, Indians can't even get simple things right such as organizing mass protests to prevent the destruction of the green zone in Aarey Colony in Mumbai. BJP decides to cut off the lungs of the city, and nobody really fights it. Yes, there were some NGO's but they're toothless and lack even basic courage.

That episode itself tells me a lot about today's generation of Indians. These weaklings don't deserve a democracy.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Including the UK and US.

Comrades Burny and Corbun, both of whom got overwhelming mandates from their citizens.

I was referring to Muslim countries. Many personally congratulated Imran Khan on his speeches.