North Korea: China is a ‘Turncoat and our Enemy’

[xunzi]

You want a united korea with US presense in your backyard?

This is why it is important to make a deal with the US to remove all military base and future missile defense out of Korea peninsula.

 

[bolo]

This is why it is important to make a deal with the US to remove all military base and future missile defense out of Korea peninsula.

you are missing the point. US has no intention to ever leave SK or East Asia unless they are driven out by force.

 

[xunzi]

you are missing the point. US has no intention to ever leave SK or East Asia unless they are driven out by force.

Let be practical and realistic. It's realpolitik after all. I don't foresee the US leaving Asia for a long time. At worse, they will move their base to Australia, Philippines, and Guam. Tokyo will remain a US's lapdog for a long time. We can save Korea because they are landlock and close to us. The key is making this close agreement with both Washington and Seoul. With Park at the helm, it is a good opportunity to push for it before it's too late. However, everything depends on the contingency plan of North Korea regime.

 

[bolo]

Let be practical and realistic. It's realpolitik after all. I don't foresee the US leaving Asia for a long time. At worse, they will move their base to Australia, Philippines, and Guam. Tokyo will remain a US's lapdog for a long time. We can save Korea because they are landlock and close to us. The key is making this close agreement with both Washington and Seoul. With Park at the helm, it is a good opportunity to push for it before it's too late. However, everything depends on the contingency plan of North Korea regime.

The US can have their bases in phillipines, australia, japan. But having a base in SK is not good for China. If NK ceded to SK, it will be bad for China as they will lose that buffer zone. that's all I'm saying as I do not see anything beneficial to China with a united Korea.

And really, can you really trust USA? Sure you guys can work out a deal but when all is set and done they do not need to honour it. Not to mention some right wing SK are eying the Changbang mountain claiming its theirs....

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Don't worry Kim Jong Un is replaceable.

 

[xunzi]

The US can have their bases in phillipines, australia, japan. But having a base in SK is not good for China. If NK ceded to SK, it will be bad for China as they will lose that buffer zone. that's all I'm saying as I do not see anything beneficial to China with a united Korea.

And really, can you really trust USA? Sure you guys can work out a deal but when all is set and done they do not need to honour it. Not to mention some right wing SK are eying the Changbang mountain claiming its theirs....

The notion that unified Korea will allow US base is just an assumption. They can go either ways, in my book. They used to be pro-China under Roh Moo-hyun. They became a bit anti-China under Lee Myung-bak. Now with Park Geun-hye, they are at least neutral to pro-China now. The Koreans I know don't like having US military base in their country. They have military bases because of impending threat from North Korea attack and with our support of NK, they can't defend an assault from the North. Thus the needs to delay US transfer of military authority to South Korea. This situation is very different from Japan. Japan is not only a threat to us but also to the US. The US will find any justification to station their troop there.

Right-wing SK is nothing more than a petty pet. They are insignificant and they will need our help to stabilize North Korea in case of a reunification. Northeast province is not a threat by these SK nationalists. The real threat is how to deal with refugee. Some form of a deal and I'm talking real concrete deal signing on paper which must satisfied our conditions.

The conditions can be set to territorial integrity agreement, historical reference agreement, US's military base removal, economics, trade, and last but not least, return of refugee in due time after the situation stabilized.

 

[gambit]

Let be practical and realistic. It's realpolitik after all. I don't foresee the US leaving Asia for a long time. At worse, they will move their base to Australia, Philippines, and Guam. Tokyo will remain a US's lapdog for a long time. We can save Korea because they are landlock and close to us. The key is making this close agreement with both Washington and Seoul. With Park at the helm, it is a good opportunity to push for it before it's too late. However, everything depends on the contingency plan of North Korea regime.

Save from what ? Poverty and malnutrition ?

Strategic Horizons: When North Korea Collapses, U.S. Must Be Ready

Articles relating to the impending collapse of NKR are plentiful, but no one seriously minded enough will place a high priority on China taking over NKR. Most, if not all, concurs that China will allow that collapse and the unification of Korea under Seoul's administration.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Recycled old trick used by stupid south koreans. They forgot we invented that scheme.


gambit is one of those inferior vietnamese who lives in America and think the white people see him as American instead of a skinny *** yellow monkey.

Those Kimchis are annoying as fck, keep speading the lies as an usual habit.

Next time, I think Kim Jong-Un should shell Seoul.

 

[Zsari]

you are missing the point. US has no intention to ever leave SK or East Asia unless they are driven out by force.

SKoreans are begining to realize that the road to reunification or even just improved security via the north is through Beijing, not Washington, so a deal with SK would not be completely out of question.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The US can have their bases in phillipines, australia, japan. But having a base in SK is not good for China. If NK ceded to SK, it will be bad for China as they will lose that buffer zone. that's all I'm saying as I do not see anything beneficial to China with a united Korea.

And really, can you really trust USA? Sure you guys can work out a deal but when all is set and done they do not need to honour it. Not to mention some right wing SK are eying the Changbang mountain claiming its theirs....

Some Chinese members here are naive, but CPC isn't naive, so CPC will never trust those South Korean bangzi regardless how the Kim Dynasty is bad.

 

[Zsari]

For decades, the North Koreans lives with the idea that South Korea is the hostile one and China is the benefactor. Do you really believe that ALL of them will go running for the South Korean border ?

Doesn't need ALL of them, just a couple of them and the rest will know that the door to the South is open while China's is not. Guess where will the rest be heading towards?

Only North Korea ?

I guess not only are the laws of physics bends with Chinese will, history is equally flexible. Eastern Europe must not exists in your history book.

Exactly my point. NKorea is penny on the dollar when compared to Eastern Europe, and as China has no global comittements, keeping NKorea afloat does not require a significant amount. Matter fact, I bet the money needed would be less than what the US gave to Dalai and Kadeer each year.

 

[gambit]

Doesn't need ALL of them, just a couple of them and the rest will know that the door to the South is open while China's is not. Guess where will the rest be heading towards?

Even so, where does that leave China ? Bereft of a buffer state. This is not comparable to what Russia is doing with Crimea. At least the Russians have a pretense that is legally arguable, if not morally equitable. China and North Korea have nothing. When -- not if -- North Korea collapse, regardless of the chaos inside the two borders, unless China steps in militarily, Seoul will take over. South Korea, the US, and Japan learned the Germany lesson. Looks like China have not.

Exactly my point. NKorea is penny on the dollar when compared to Eastern Europe, and as China has no global comittements, keeping NKorea afloat does not require a significant amount. Matter fact, I bet the money needed would be less than what the US gave to Dalai and Kadeer each year.

That is really naive thinking. And we have been continually told that the Chinese have an inherently superior IQ.

The best client state is the one with shared morality, not from being a financial burden, no matter how feasible it may be. Contrary to popular belief, the worst kind of dependencies are only two: food and energy. Defense dependency is a far third. That is why the US built Japan's and South Korea's economies to the point where there came a diminishing dependency on outsiders. Today, contrary to the delusions of the Chinese members here with their incessant 'thermonuclear' masturbation, either South Korea and Japan can give the PLA a run for its money. All three: US, Japan, and South Korea, have a shared morality. Give enough time, the relationship ceases to be that of sponsor and client but allies and even friends. No matter what the Chinese members here may say about Japan and South Korea, both of them are closer to the US in terms of being allies, or even friends, than China can say for North Korea.

So even if North Korea can somehow survive our lifetime, which I doubt given what I saw when The Berlin Wall came down from only a few years earlier when I toured it, the China-NKR relationship will never evolve beyond sponsor and client. The Chinese government will always view NKR as a geopolitical burden, not an ally, and one that sucks at the Chinese teat while giving micrometers next to nothing in return.

Congrats on your naivete.

 

[Zsari]

Even so, where does that leave China ? Bereft of a buffer state. This is not comparable to what Russia is doing with Crimea. At least the Russians have a pretense that is legally arguable, if not morally equitable. China and North Korea have nothing. When -- not if -- North Korea collapse, regardless of the chaos inside the two borders, unless China steps in militarily, Seoul will take over. South Korea, the US, and Japan learned the Germany lesson. Looks like China have not.

What are you talking about? Crimea? China doesn't want NKorea. SKorea will have its handful with refugees to worry about taking over that is if NKorea collapse. As I've said elsewhere, the SK are increasingly realizing that the road to national unification is through Beijing, not Washington. A NKorea collapse will be the last thing it wants to see, while working with China to a stable resolution without the Americans will be in its best interest.

The best client state is the one with shared morality, not from being a financial burden, no matter how feasible it may be. Contrary to popular belief, the worst kind of dependencies are only two: food and energy. Defense dependency is a far third. That is why the US built Japan's and South Korea's economies to the point where there came a diminishing dependency on outsiders. Today, contrary to the delusions of the Chinese members here with their incessant 'thermonuclear' masturbation, either South Korea and Japan can give the PLA a run for its money. All three: US, Japan, and South Korea, have a shared morality. Give enough time, the relationship ceases to be that of sponsor and client but allies and even friends. No matter what the Chinese members here may say about Japan and South Korea, both of them are closer to the US in terms of being allies, or even friends, than China can say for North Korea.

So even if North Korea can somehow survive our lifetime, which I doubt given what I saw when The Berlin Wall came down from only a few years earlier when I toured it, the China-NKR relationship will never evolve beyond sponsor and client. The Chinese government will always view NKR as a geopolitical burden, not an ally, and one that sucks at the Chinese teat while giving micrometers next to nothing in return.

Congrats on your naivete.

Look whose being Navie. International relationship is based on interest, not ideology. You need to read up on real power politics. I suggest some of Prof Mearsheimer's work, like Imperial by design etc. BTW, Korea and Japan really doesn't work well together, its hilarious to see US trying to juggle the two in vain.

 

[terranMarine]

Even so, where does that leave China ? Bereft of a buffer state. This is not comparable to what Russia is doing with Crimea. At least the Russians have a pretense that is legally arguable, if not morally equitable. China and North Korea have nothing. When -- not if -- North Korea collapse, regardless of the chaos inside the two borders, unless China steps in militarily, Seoul will take over. South Korea, the US, and Japan learned the Germany lesson. Looks like China have not.

Gee smart arse, if you know North Korea so well you should be aware the population doesn't revolt out of fear. In fact they worship their leader like a god. Keep on dreaming about the fall of North Korea cause it 's not gonna happen in your lifetime. In my opinion South Korea would not want to invade North Korea, so our neighbor as a buffer zone shall continue to exist. Better believe it, just a matter of time before they test another nuclear explosion and the US will only condemn out fat boy Kim for it has no guts to start a war with China.

 

[BoQ77]

Let take a look at the same situation ...
North Vietnam vs South Vietnam ...

China forced the North Vietnam not to occupy South of Vietnam during end phase of Vietnam war.
If North win, China is scared of the reunited Vietnam grow dangerous to them.
If South win, China is scared of the reunited Vietnam with US military bases.

Vietnam must be another North Korea if China is successful to force North Vietnam to do what China want.
But now to China, the North win and grow dangerous to them ( and maybe with US hands in )

Let act wisely, Chinese pals ... Vietnam is not the puppet as your North Korea