North Korea Attacks South Korea - Latest Update

[Chinese-Dragon]

I'll admit I don't know much about Japan's constitutional process but is it really that hard to change?

Not impossible, but difficult enough that I don't see it as a likely possibility in the near future. I guess the Americans who wrote it, really didn't want Japan to re-militarize.

Note: The Japanese constitution has not been amended even ONCE since it was enacted in 1947. Another factor (apart from the difficulty) is that the Japanese themselves don't seem to be interested in amending it.

What if NK fired some shells and a couple hundred Japanese civilians died? There would be massive public outcry to take charge of their own defence rather than rely on the US.

In that situation it might be possible I suppose... unlikely but possible...

 

[gambit]

Nobody is making NKorea to be the victim.

Like Nomenclature put it very vividly, if you keep poking at a maddog and the maddog bites off your finger, most people would just say "SERVE YOU RIGHT".

Showing that you are capable of self defense is not 'poking' at anyone nor intruding into his backyard. And people here are not trying make North Korea the victim?

 

[gambit]

You obviously haven't studies the history and the people of the peninsular.

SK can have all sorts of intestines but lack the guts to declare war against the North.

In military (and other aspects in slightly lesser sense) SK is a puppet of US. Period. They had their boat sunk, they had their island shelled. The most SK can do is whining. (But the best they can do is to stop provoking or appear to provoke the NK.)

On the peninsular, it is not SK vs NK, but China (and, to a lesser extent, Russia) vs US. You must always bear this in your mind when talking about anything on the peninsular. Otherwise, you'll be lost. The difference on the two sides of the 38 parallel is that, after the Korea War, the Chinese have withdrawn from the North in 1958, leaving only a military treaty behind Treaty of Friendship. Thus, NK is not an occupied country and can act like a sovereign country. Whereas SK is still an occupied country, has no say on its own affairs, and can only act like a puppet.

Why would NK be so foolish as to reveal its casualty to the world? That doesn't do NK any good. They don't want to show their fantasies. They just want to be left alone and to survive. The weaker should always act in secrete ways to bewilder his stronger opponent. Sun Tzu's law.

As a follow up, I believe NK leaders must have broken into such as ecstasy upon hearing US sending AC battle group into the region, a foolish decision can only be made by ideological fanatic bvffoons in the military.

Just a homework: why the US is played into NK's hand by sending the AC into the region?

Utter BS. North Korea depends on China for economic support to feed its own people and even rely on South Korean Red Cross to send humanitarian aid to NKR.

The Next Great North Korean Famine - TIME

Nearly one million people starved to death when a murderous famine gripped North Korea in the 1990s. Now, the most backward, isolated country in the world may be about to see history repeat itself. According to diplomats, United Nations officials and a variety of non-government organizations, North Korea stands yet again on the brink of a major food shortage. "The prospect of hunger-related deaths in the next few months is approaching certainty," says Marcus Noland, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute and co-author of a just released study raising alarms about the prospect of renewed famine. In fact, one Seoul-based NGO, the Research Institute for North Korean Society, asserts that there have already been a handful of people in small, agricultural villages who have died from starvation.

Such reliance make NKR no less a puppet to China than SKR is to US. Lashing out at SKR is not a sign of an adult sovereign state but more like an ingrate and a spoiled brat that deserve a spanking.

 

[no_name]

What if NK fired some shells and a couple hundred Japanese civilians died? There would be massive public outcry to take charge of their own defence rather than rely on the US.

You probably mean N korean made ballistic missiles like Taepodong as no artillery shell is gonna travel all the way from NK to Japan.

 

[gambit]

I'll admit I don't know much about Japan's constitutional process but is it really that hard to change?

What if NK fired some shells and a couple hundred Japanese civilians died? There would be massive public outcry to take charge of their own defence rather than rely on the US.

That would fall under self defense, not aggression as a matter of an expansionist foreign policy. If SKR and Japan were attacked and both decided to teach NKR a serious lesson, the US would be willing to be in a supporting role as much as our military forces can do without getting in the way. China would be faced with a difficult choice, either to engage militarily against this triad, or let NKR be wiped out.

 

[Nan Yang]

Showing that you are capable of self defense is not 'poking' at anyone nor intruding into his backyard. And people here are not trying make North Korea the victim?

We are just saying that S Korea is not entirely innocent.

 

[Developereo]

That would fall under self defense, not aggression as a matter of an expansionist foreign policy. If SKR and Japan were attacked and both decided to teach NKR a serious lesson, the US would be willing to be in a supporting role as much as our military forces can do without getting in the way. China would be faced with a difficult choice, either to engage militarily against this triad, or let NKR be wiped out.

But wouldn't China getting involved, i.e. attacking Japan or South Korea, immediately shift the US from a supporting role into a full-fledged engagement?

We are talking WW3.

I seriously doubt China would attack Japan or South Korea over North Korea. I don't know what they (China) would do.

 

[gpit]

Utter BS. North Korea depends on China for economic support to feed its own people and even rely on South Korean Red Cross to send humanitarian aid to NKR.

The Next Great North Korean Famine - TIME

Such reliance make NKR no less a puppet to China than SKR is to US. Lashing out at SKR is not a sign of an adult sovereign state but more like an ingrate and a spoiled brat that deserve a spanking.

Indeed utterly BSing!

China wants a nuclear free Korea Peninsular, but NK explodes it.

China wants NK go back to 6-party talk, but NK refuses.

...

Have you seen this type of puppet? ...perhaps only exists in your fanatic imagination.

NK's action is a typical sign of an independent sovereign country.

True that NK partially depends on China for food and other aids, but that is more a humanitarian help. Unlike some Western countries that once aids are given, lots of strings attached to the aided party. China will NOT interfere NK's internal affairs just because China helps NK. So no concept of "ingrate" here.

So far, it looks like NK's count-strike against SK is to serve the justice according to international norms.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I seriously doubt China would attack Japan or South Korea over North Korea. I don't know what they (China) would do.

If North Korea (YET again) goes against China's wishes, and invades South Korea... then I doubt that China will do anything at all.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China wants a nuclear free Korea Peninsular, but NK explodes it.

China wants NK go back to 6-party talk, but NK refuses.

North Korea keeps ignoring China's advice, just like they did in the 1950's.

I just hope that Kim Jong-Il's son is more reasonable than his father is.

 

[Developereo]

If North Korea (YET again) goes against China's wishes, and invades South Korea... then I doubt that China will do anything at all.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be that simple.

The world perceives the Korean conflict as a proxy war between China and the US. China can't afford to let North Korea suffer a humiliating defeat. I suspect China would provide military backing in a 'supporting' role. How that will go down with Japan will be interesting.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be that simple.

The world perceives the Korean conflict as a proxy war between China and the US. China can't afford to let North Korea suffer a humiliating defeat. I suspect China would provide military backing in a 'supporting' role. How that will go down with Japan will be interesting.

Does the world really perceive it as a proxy war between China and the US? I certainly don't.

I read the Western media from time to time, CNN, BBC, etc. and the impression I get... is that they think North Korea is becoming a liability that China does not want.

China now needs economic development, that is the number 1 priority. If some mad Kim wants to destabilize the region and cause a (possibly nuclear) war, then they can take the consequences themselves.

I don't want ONE single Chinese person to fight and die for some damn Kim who obviously does not care about China and what this might do to the regional economy. China keeps telling Kim not to cause problems... and he just IGNORES us. He can 滚开 for all I care.

 

[gambit]

Indeed utterly BSing!

China wants a nuclear free Korea Peninsular, but NK explodes it.

China wants NK go back to 6-party talk, but NK refuses.

...

Have you seen this type of puppet? ...perhaps only exists in your fanatic imagination.

NK's action is a typical sign of an independent sovereign country.

True that NK partially depends on China for food and other aids, but that is more a humanitarian help. Unlike some Western countries that once aids are given, lots of strings attached to the aided party. China will NOT interfere NK's internal affairs just because China helps NK. So no concept of "ingrate" here.

So far, it looks like NK's count-strike against SK is to serve the justice according to international norms.

Anyone who ever owns a dog will know that no matter how trained, the dog will be happier with a fenced yard than under a leash. The dog has much more freedom of movement in a fenced yard. Unfortunately, we cannot always installed fences to outline national borders, least of all at seas. My next door neighbor is a retired couple. Our front yards have no fences. If I wanted to, I can beat them up without breaking a sweat. I can throw trash into their front yard and there is nothing they can do about it other than call the police. But the reason we do not abuse each other is because we have genuine respect and affection for each other. The police or 'enforcer' of any law is not needed between us.

You are confused between a long leash and genuine respect between sovereign neighbors that require neither saber rattlings nor fences to keep neighbors at bay.

In America, South Korean products are everywhere. In the semicon manufacturing industry, Samsung is my largest competitor. We do not see anything remotely similar from North Korea, do we? Between the US and SKR, it is a partnership with SKR being the junior. We do not feed the South Koreans as we compete for American consumer dollars.

China's Food Aid - It's About Strategy not Charity - GLG News

China's growth in food aid is almost solely due to increased shipments to North Korea

This is not occurring out of a charitable impetus but rather out of geo-political necessity

So China is donating more – mostly to North Korea – but not out of charity but out of support for the PRC’s wider geopolitical aims.

North Korean abductions of Japanese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The abductions of Japanese citizens from Japan by agents of the North Korean government happened during a period of six years from 1977 to 1983.[1] Although only 17 Japanese (eight men and nine women) are officially recognized by the Japanese government as having been abducted,[2] there may have been as many as 70 to 80.[3] The North Korean government has officially admitted abducting 13 Japanese citizens.[4]

There are testimonies that many non-Japanese citizens, including nine European citizens,[5] have been abducted by North Korea.

China does not care about NKR regarding humanitarian concerns. Between China and NKR, it a man holding a leash on a dog and feeds it as needed over the long term. The mangy cur exploded a nuclear weapon and attacked its neighbors because China has been neglectful while holding a very long and loose leash.

 

[gambit]

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be that simple.

The world perceives the Korean conflict as a proxy war between China and the US. China can't afford to let North Korea suffer a humiliating defeat. I suspect China would provide military backing in a 'supporting' role. How that will go down with Japan will be interesting.

That does not mean China has the ability to prevent such a defeat. In Viet Nam, the US was directly involved. Despite pleadings by the North Vietnamese based upon ideological solidarity, neither the Soviets nor China wanted the same level and type of involvement. If SKR and Japan decided to take on NKR out of frustration and patience, most likely the US will have the same type of direct involvement as in Viet Nam. Everyone expects it because of Afghanistan and Iraq. Will China take on US because if China decide to get involved militarily, the US will certainly shift focus from targeting NKRean assets and will go after Chinese ones? China will lose that fight. Even the simpering Obama will give in to the Pentagon who want to fight to win.

So if China does not want NKR to suffer that humiliating defeat, then China has better tighten up the leash on this mangy cur called 'North Korea'. If there is no fight, there is no humiliating defeat.

 

[gambit]

We are just saying that S Korea is not entirely innocent.

Yup...South Korea is guilty of asserting the right to self defense. I guess that in Asia, only China has that right, no?