North Korea Attacks South Korea - Latest Update

[maxx]

Yeah...The other guy did in an oblique manner. Too scared to come out and say it straight...

The famine wasn't caused by the US, but sanction didn't help either. I believe this is what he meant.

But is it a moral and economic burden of outsiders to do so?

For China and South Korea yes. These countries would be afftected most if NK was to collapse.

 

[gambit]

no use convincing gambit of our point of view?

Look at the whole thing this way...Your world is not my world.

We may say an 'adult' is chronologically 18 yrs old, but the truly political being does not come to be until his/her early twenties after a few years of education, participation in the labor market, paid taxes, and a general awareness of how decisions by political leaders affect his/her life. Am willing to bet that your world contain a sanitized version of China, the Berlin Wall does not exist, neither does the mandatory Mao suit, neither does the Soviet Union, and so on. My world contains all of those things and more. If we meet a 19th century American, his world would contain institutionalized racism and all the things unknown to modern day Americans. Same for China.

North Korea and Cuba are remnants of my world, vis-avis the Cold War, continuing into yours. The problem for you in particular as an interested Chinese participant in this debate and for China in general is that North Korea is no longer useful for China other than the fact that NKR can serve as a geopolitical buffer against the US and allies in the region. A poor one at that. If wealth is artificial then the country is as artificially destitute, thanks to an odious regime, as South Korea is artificially wealthy. If the US is to share the credit for SKR's wealth, then China is share the credit for NKR's poverty.

Just as I cannot convince that 19th century American to my opinions of what is America, you cannot change my view because my world is historically more complete than yours.

 

[Nan Yang]

No...Sanctions OR force. The former is coercive diplomacy, which can be useless if there is a sponsor for the target of the sanctions. China is that sponsor for North Korea. This means the sanctions and their effects are usually grossly overblown for propaganda effects.

Fine. So China is just preventing a total collapse of a nuclear armed country. I am sure the S Koreans will understand that.
Why would China or the Koreans trust a country that is not an immediate neighbor and would not be much affected by a war or nuclear fallout.

If US is truly sincere why not just hold direct talks with N Koreans and sign a peace treaty.

 

[CardSharp]

Look at the whole thing this way...Your world is not my world.

We may say an 'adult' is chronologically 18 yrs old, but the truly political being does not come to be until his/her early twenties after a few years of education, participation in the labor market, paid taxes, and a general awareness of how decisions by political leaders affect his/her life. Am willing to bet that your world contain a sanitized version of China, the Berlin Wall does not exist, neither does the mandatory Mao suit, neither does the Soviet Union, and so on. My world contains all of those things and more. If we meet a 19th century American, his world would contain institutionalized racism and all the things unknown to modern day Americans. Same for China.

North Korea and Cuba are remnants of my world, vis-avis the Cold War, continuing into yours. The problem for you in particular as an interested Chinese participant in this debate and for China in general is that North Korea is no longer useful for China other than the fact that NKR can serve as a geopolitical buffer against the US and allies in the region. A poor one at that. If wealth is artificial then the country is as artificially destitute, thanks to an odious regime, as South Korea is artificially wealthy. If the US is to share the credit for SKR's wealth, then China is share the credit for NKR's poverty.

Just as I cannot convince that 19th century American to my opinions of what is America, you cannot change my view because my world is historically more complete than yours.

I'll stay away from pop-psychology if you do.

 

[T-Rex]

You certainly have more courage than the other guy who are too scared to answer the same question. Bravo.


Yeah...The other guy did in an oblique manner. Too scared to come out and say it straight...




But is it a moral and economic burden of outsiders to do so?

Instead of whining about your 'moral burden' why don't you tell us what's going to happen in the next few weeks over there. We'll be here to see for ourselves the validity of your predictions, after all, you're a great genius aren't you?

 

[gambit]

The famine wasn't caused by the US, but sanction didn't help either. I believe this is what he meant.

Sanctions are voluntary. There is no naval blockade preventing other countries from trading with NKR or giving aid. If China can give aid, so can other countries. What happened?

For China and South Korea yes. These countries would be afftected most if NK was to collapse.

South Korea does not have a moral or economic burden to support North Korea. If NKR is to serve as China's geopolitical buffer, then those burdens belongs to China. The Soviet Union supported Cuba all the way up to its collapse. NKR cannot collapse because if that event does happen it will be because of China's abandonment, not because of sanctions. That need for a geopolitical buffer can be great enough to compel China to keep the NKRean people at the starvation level while fattening the NKRean regime.

 

[gambit]

Instead of whining about your 'moral burden' why don't you tell us what's going to happen in the next few weeks over there. We'll be here to see for ourselves the validity of your predictions, after all, you're a great genius aren't you?

Nope...But am certainly a lot smarter than you...

 

[gambit]

Fine. So China is just preventing a total collapse of a nuclear armed country. I am sure the S Koreans will understand that.
Why would China or the Koreans trust a country that is not an immediate neighbor and would not be much affected by a war or nuclear fallout.

If US is truly sincere why not just hold direct talks with N Koreans and sign a peace treaty.

The technical state of war is between the two Koreas. Their sponsors can hold talks amongst themselves.

 

[Nan Yang]

Sanctions are voluntary. There is no naval blockade preventing other countries from trading with NKR or giving aid. If China can give aid, so can other countries. What happened?


South Korea does not have a moral or economic burden to support North Korea. If NKR is to serve as China's geopolitical buffer, then those burdens belongs to China. The Soviet Union supported Cuba all the way up to its collapse. NKR cannot collapse because if that event does happen it will be because of China's abandonment, not because of sanctions. That need for a geopolitical buffer can be great enough to compel China to keep the NKRean people at the starvation level while fattening the NKRean regime.

Show me any evidence that China has ever oppose any effort for peaceful reunification ?

If the US is to share the credit for SKR's wealth, then China is share the credit for NKR's poverty

No country has done more to persuade N Korea to open up then China.

 

[gambit]

Show me any evidence that China has ever oppose any effort for peaceful reunification ?

Under Seoul?

No country has done more to persuade N Korea to open up then China.

Meaningless. We want results. Pyongyang start taking orders from Seoul would be a good start.

 

[no_name]

Credit goes to Bigtree.cn for posting the picture.

It looks like a finger twist (!)

 

[CardSharp]

It looks like a finger twist (!)

Precisely why it is such an apt metaphor.

 

[T-Rex]

Nope...But am certainly a lot smarter than you...

Since you don't dare to, I tell you what's going to happen, DPRK is going to do whatever it pleases and the South along with its master is going to watch and make a lot of noise! When the time comes to prove yourself you never fail to run with your tail between your legs and then advertise your 'indepth knowledge'. Keep up the great yankee tradition!

 

[Nan Yang]

The technical state of war is between the two Koreas. Their sponsors can hold talks amongst themselves.

Not when US keep threatening N Korea with regime change.
The issue IS between US and N Korea. Since Clinton times.

 

[Nan Yang]

Under Seoul?


Meaningless. We want results. Pyongyang start taking orders from Seoul would be a good start.

We deal with reality. We have patience. Patience is a virtue. We live in east asia. Maybe US should start to take orders from China ?