North Korea Attacks South Korea - Latest Update

[Hussein]

Ah, the "commie hunter" is back.

"Dehumanizing the enemy" by (ironically) calling them "inhuman monsters".

I wonder, is it possible to have a conversation with an inhuman monster?

understand why? they have Obama monster there

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

To call communists 'inhuman' is appropriate. That is my opinion and am sticking to it...

LOL I know it's your opinion, I just find it extreme that you refer to Communists as "inhuman monsters" when the truth is that they are human beings just like you or me.

They aren't inhuman (non-human) creatures wearing masks.

I personally don't like the idea of "Dehumanizing people"... but like you said, it's your opinion. I'm just glad that the US government does not share your opinion on (seemingly) most matters that we have discussed.

 

[gambit]

@Gambit,
Does it occur to you that at least part of the Korean problems are related to the victors of the WWII dividing up the country? So...along with agreeing to the Iron Curtain in Europe, the 'Allies' also contributed to some unsavory things in the Southeast Asia. There is at least some blame to be shared around.

I don't know what are China's motives but I don't think keeping NK backwards makes sense. Why would the Chinese want to have a destablized AND nuclear country in their neighborhood when they can have a stable and allied NKR instead?

PS. NKR has been on my 'must-visit' countries' list for a long time. It is the last functioning lab of human social engineering and the perversion of Marx's ideals. It sounds so fascinating to study that country.

Then why not correct the historical wrong by letting North Korea go? Most people here, probably including you, grew up not knowing what communism is like at the people's level. They, more likely than not, never know a world where the Berlin Wall exist. I do. I dare say no one here have ever touched a live nuclear weapon. I have. The plight of ordinary people under the jackboots of communism are never real to them. No wonder they are able to support communist regimes at the same time delude themselves those regimes are not. So if it is possible to right the historical wrong of WW II and the Cold War, let the abomination called 'North Korea' die an ignoble death the same way the Soviet Union did.

 

[Hussein]

Then why not correct the historical wrong by letting North Korea go? Most people here, probably including you, grew up not knowing what communism is like at the people's level. They, more likely than not, never know a world where the Berlin Wall exist. I do. I dare say no one here have ever touched a live nuclear weapon. I have. The plight of ordinary people under the jackboots of communism are never real to them. No wonder they are able to support communist regimes at the same time delude themselves those regimes are not. So if it is possible to right the historical wrong of WW II and the Cold War, let the abomination called 'North Korea' die an ignoble death the same way the Soviet Union did.

I have a good friend who lived in Berlin in the French part. His father is commandant in cavalery. Yep seems was a really bad regime there.
The movie "other's life" says it a lot.
North Korea is terrible country but most of your companies go to China for business so it is not so terrible... i mean there was no american almost in soviet union right?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

North Korea is terrible country but most of your companies go to China for business so it is not so terrible... i mean there was no american almost in soviet union right?

Yeah there are loads of Americans here who come over for business. Some of them actually speak very good Chinese.

 

[gambit]

What's the point of having a "mad dog" that ultimately ends up hurting the person holding the leash? That would be a terrible investment.

What do you think will happen if North Korea collapses? There will be a massive flood of refugees trying to stream across the border into Northeastern China. What a humanitarian catastrophe that would be.

That is why China must step in and tightened the reins of this 'mad dog'. We already know that China has no interests in raising the living standards of the North Koreans. Make sense to send in troops and occupy the country to control the regime and show the world, particularly the US, that the Chinese government is fully capable of asserting China's military might in self interests.

 

[gambit]

I have a good friend who lived in Berlin in the French part. His father is commandant in cavalery. Yep seems was a really bad regime there.
The movie "other's life" says it a lot.
North Korea is terrible country but most of your companies go to China for business so it is not so terrible... i mean there was no american almost in soviet union right?

China is not North Korea.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That is why China must step in and tightened the reins of this 'mad dog'. We already know that China has no interests in raising the living standards of the North Koreans. Make sense to send in troops and occupy the country to control the regime and show the world, particularly the US, that the Chinese government is fully capable of asserting China's military might in self interests.

You're telling China to do something, and you claim that it is in China's best interests? Forgive me for being a bit skeptical here.

China's best interests are served by being patient. As time goes on, China's position grows stronger.

So China will continue to call for calm on both sides, try to get North Korea back into the nuclear talks etc. Your suggestion that China should occupy North Korea seems very unrealistic to me, I don't see the purpose of that.

 

[gambit]

You're telling China to do something, and you claim that it is in China's best interests? Forgive me for being a bit skeptical here.

China's best interests are served by being patient. As time goes on, China's position grows stronger.

So China will continue to call for calm on both sides, try to get North Korea back into the nuclear talks etc. Your suggestion that China should occupy North Korea seems very unrealistic to me, I don't see the purpose of that.

You need to be consistent in your argument. You cannot advocate patient at the same time wondering why would China want an unstable North Korea. The fact that North Korea attacked the South with these potshots tells us that either China is behind these potshots or that China is slowly losing control of NKR. If the latter, China's patience will backfire.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Make sense to send in troops and occupy the country to control the regime and show the world, particularly the US, that the Chinese government is fully capable of asserting China's military might in self interests.

OK here, why would China want to "show the world" anything? Especially with such a drastic action as (!) "occupying" North Korea?

Here is a very important quote regarding the Chinese mindset:

"Keep a cool head and maintain a low profile. Never take the lead... but aim to do something big."
- Deng Xiaoping

Let others underestimate us, that is the best path to take.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

You need to be consistent in your argument. You cannot advocate patient at the same time wondering why would China want an unstable North Korea. The fact that North Korea attacked the South with these potshots tells us that either China is behind these potshots or that China is slowly losing control of NKR. If the latter, China's patient will backfire.

And why it'll backfire when it has South Korea and Japan to take care of.Both working in collaboration against this patient.
US coming for help as well.

 

[gambit]

OK here, why would China want to "show the world" anything? Especially with such a drastic action as (!) "occupying" North Korea?

To show that China is, not merely can be, a responsible power. China's own ideological foundation and political institutions may be odious to many, but that does not absolve any nation-state, let alone a rising global power like China, from behaving responsibly and exercising controls over proxies. Currently, nation-states still respect sheer physical prowess over moralities as means of persuasions, especially among peers who differs ideologically and politically. Call it coercions if it suits. But losing such controls of self and proxies signals the world that said nation-state warrant hostile observance and cautious relations.

Here is a very important quote regarding the Chinese mindset:

"Keep a cool head and maintain a low profile. Never take the lead... but aim to do something big."
- Deng Xiaoping

Let others underestimate us, that is the best path to take.

Only works if the lead is not great......Once that lead passes a certain threshold, there is no underestimation but a reasonably accurate one. Looky here...The US was underestimated many times and we are the world's sole superpower. And every time the US acted contrary to what others expected, that lead widened.

 

[CardSharp]

hahahaha awesome picture, conveniently forgetting it was the South Koreans executing thousands of North Korean for being communists and North Korean executing South Koreans for working with the SK government.

The two sides have this love-hate thing going where they hate each other's guts but both share Jurche supremacist beliefs. The reason probably why the South Korean in the picture is only aiding and abetting the baby tossing, working as the "US stooge" and not directly responsible for fratricide.

 

[SEAL]

YouTube - Video of North Korean attack aftermath, smoking ruins in Yeonpyeong

 

[CardSharp]

Looks like I wasn't the only one who thought the shelling was primarily linked with the leadership struggle/succession.

North Korean dictator-in-waiting linked to deadly artillery attack

NORTH KOREA has burnished the leadership credentials of its 26-year-old dictator-in-waiting with a deadly artillery attack on South Korean territory, causing its neighbour to return fire and scramble F-16 fighters.

Two South Korean marines died, and at least 12 were wounded. There were reports of civilian injuries and houses were set ablaze as scores of shells fell on Yeonpyeong island.

A North Korea expert at Beijing's Central Party School, Zhang Liangui, told the Herald that Kim Jong-un was deliberately destabilising the environment in order to mobilise the military and consolidate his power.

The South Korean President, Lee Myung-bak, held an emergency meeting and told officials to ''respond sternly'' but to avoid aggravating the situation. The military were placed on high alert.

North Korea accused South Korea of firing first. ''The South Korean enemy, despite our repeated warnings, committed reckless military provocations of firing artillery shells into our maritime territory near Yeonpyeong island,'' the military supreme command said.

The north's military ''will continue to make merciless military attacks with no hesitation if the South Korean enemy dares to invade our sea territory by 0.001 mm'', it said in the statement carried by the official news agency. ''It is our military's traditional response to quell provocative actions with a merciless thunderbolt.''


There have been previous skirmishes along the border - including the deaths of 46 South Korean sailors when the corvette Cheonan was torpedoed on March 26 - but the stakes are getting higher.

The exchange follows the revelation last week of a hitherto unknown North Korean uranium enrichment plant to a visiting US scientist. Siegfried Hecker, who previously directed the Los Alamos National Laboratory, told The New York Times he had been ''stunned'' by the plant's sophistication. North Korea said it was operating 2000 centrifuges.

If verified, this would take Pyongyang towards creating a far more powerful arsenal than the estimated eight to 12 plutonium-based warheads that have been built over the past five years.

The US special representative for North Korea, Stephen Bosworth, arrived in Beijing last night to brief officials on North Korea's new enrichment facilities.

Chinese North Korea specialists believe the brinkmanship is designed to mobilise the country around the anointed successor of Kim Jong-il, his son Kim Jong-un.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman expressed ''concern'' at yesterday's attack and warned against further escalation. He said it was ''imperative'' that six-nation talks aimed at ending North Korea's nuclear ambitions be resumed.

A French diplomatic source said the United Nations Security Council would hold an emergency session.

The White House said it was ''firmly committed to the defence'' of its ally, Seoul.

The Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, was briefed on the situation last night. She condemned the attack and said Australia was consulting closely with South Korea, Japan and the US.

Professor Zhang said the latest incident was unlikely to escalate because the North was mainly ''venting anger''.

Beyond the succession, he said the North wanted concessions from the South and to be acknowledged internationally as a nuclear state.