North East Asian Union? Exploring the potential of an NEA integration

[comci]

1.) South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation is NOT the same as South Asian Union.

2.) Association of South East Asian Nation is NOT the same as South East Asian Union

3.) There are actually no such thing as North American Union, as they are a Theoretical Entity.

If you think or say that SAARC and ASEAN is a sort of extend as a Union ala European Union, then you ALREADY have a North East Asian Union, that's what you called a SCO.

Saying that is the same as saying there is an entity called Western Union, are they the union of all Western Nations??

Western Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rest of your post is just garbage, as you have zero knowledge on Geopolitics. I never said there should never be a NEAU because it will piss the pants of other South/South Eastern Nation, I said if such Union is form, it will not be used to challenge the US or the West, as you seems to forget there are 2 big country is next to your China, India and Russia. And they will see your NEAU more of a threat than the US, and you know what they will do?

Form a bloody South/Central Union themselves. Or better yet, forming NEAU would probably push Russia to join NATO and EU. Using your own argument on NEAU, both Russian and NATO are white dominated country, both are of Christianity, if China and Japan or Korea and Japan can set aside their different and join into a Union, why not Russian and NATO?

LOL, don't be such a 8 chi.

1.) South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation is NOT the same as South Asian Union.

2.) Association of South East Asian Nation is NOT the same as South East Asian Union

3.) There are actually no such thing as North American Union, as they are a Theoretical Entity.

If you think or say that SAARC and ASEAN is a sort of extend as a Union ala European Union, then you ALREADY have a North East Asian Union, that's what you called a SCO.

Saying that is the same as saying there is an entity called Western Union, are they the union of all Western Nations??

Western Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rest of your post is just garbage, as you have zero knowledge on Geopolitics. I never said there should never be a NEAU because it will piss the pants of other South/South Eastern Nation, I said if such Union is form, it will not be used to challenge the US or the West, as you seems to forget there are 2 big country is next to your China, India and Russia. And they will see your NEAU more of a threat than the US, and you know what they will do?

Form a bloody South/Central Union themselves.

LOL, don't be such a 8 chi.

All the above mentioned organizations with the exception of NAU, are not in theory, they exist. The foundation to gradually transform the existing organizations to the next level in the future is already in place. What organizations like SAARC and ASEAN need is the will to bring the organization to the next level like the EU did in the past.
The EU we nowadays known doesnt exist then. It was merely existed as a group of merely western europe countries that focus only on economic cooperation, gradually it transformed into supra national state.

European Coal and Steel Community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the history of the EU, i dont see why you would ruled out the transforming of SAARC or ASEAN to the next level if there are enough will between members like the former European Coal and Steel community did and transformed herself into the entity known as the European Union? the wheel doesnt need to be re-invented again.

The chances of establishment of NEAU is as impractical as asking India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to drop their differences and form a South Asian Union as you previously stated in your post. Well India, Bangladesh and Pakistan are member of SAARC. When SAARC transform to the next level, i pretty confident they could easily transform SAARC into somekind of South-Asian Union. Ergo your claimed that the 3 south asian countries could not cooperate is invalid as they already part of the SAARC.Take this example: European Coal and steel community > the European Union

Pls explain and share your huge Geopolitic knowledge about what India and Russia might do to the Greater East Asia.

If you hate my posts so much and according to you it is total garbage and my posts apparently rekt your nerve, why even bother to react to this topic? why not be the silent reader? You would do me more favour than wasting my precious time. Btw i dont even know what 8 chi means, i presume not a flattering word. If you like to insult, be my guest. whatever makes you feel great. From now on just ignore my garbage posts, will you?

 

[hirobo2]

Yeah, yeah , yeah, 9/11 never happened

As much as the 918 incident the Japanese did right? Plant your own bomb in your own railway and pretend the Chinese did it. LOL How moral is your Japanese Empire??

Mukden Incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The explosion was so weak that it failed to destroy the track and a train passed over it minutes later

That nothin. [American] ppl actually got killed in the ones the American CIA staged. At least the Japs don't kill their own. Now who has the higher moral ground?

 

[jhungary]

All the above mentioned organizations with the exception of NAU, are not in theory, they exist. The foundation to gradually transform the existing organizations to the next level in the future is already in place. What organizations like SAARC and ASEAN need is the will to bring the organization to the next level like the EU did in the past.
The EU we nowadays known doesnt exist then. It was merely existed as a group of merely western europe countries that focus only on economic cooperation, gradually it transformed into supra national state.

European Coal and Steel Community - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the history of the EU, i dont see why you would ruled out the transforming of SAARC or ASEAN to the next level if there are enough will between members like the former European Coal and Steel community did and transformed herself into the entity known as the European Union? the wheel doesnt need to be re-invented again.

The chances of establishment of NEAU is as impractical as asking India, Bangladesh and Pakistan to drop their differences and form a South Asian Union as you previously stated in your post. Well India, Bangladesh and Pakistan are member of SAARC. When SAARC transform to the next level, i pretty confident they could easily transform SAARC into somekind of South-Asian Union. Ergo your claimed that the 3 south asian countries could not cooperate is invalid as they already part of the SAARC.Take this example: European Coal and steel community > the European Union

If you hate my posts so much and according to you it is total garbage and my posts apparently rekt your nerve, why even bother to react to this topic? why not be the silent reader? You would do me more favour than wasting my precious time. Btw i dont even know what 8 chi means, i presume not a flattering word. If you like to insult, be my guest. whatever makes you feel great. From now on just ignore my garbage posts, will you?

First of all, you have zero understand of how political union work, you have to be because you think ASEAN is an Political union. Political Union is not just focus on economic cooperation, but a share of defence responsibility as well. In EU, there are something called EU battlegroup which one country will station troop on another for "Cooperative Defence" And something ASEAN and SAARC is lacking.

Second of all, EU formed on the back foot of European Community, which based on the European Movement International established in 1947 after the WW2. The philosophy is that it seek to provide a structure to encourage and facilitate the active participation of citizens and civil society organisations in the development of a united Europe.

European Movement International - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EU is the basic Idea that European have to be remain united on the premises that incident like WW2 will not ever happened again in Europe. By bonding together, it become harder to break. Economic Cooperation in that stage is not a consideration.

I am not saying EU was form without consideration of Economic partnership, but unlike what you said, EU is not simply an organisation that transformed from and Economic Union into a supranational institution. Quite contrary, EU is the other way around, it was a supranational institution and later focus and emphasis on Economic Cooperation.

Thirdly and lastly, I never said NEAU can never be able to establish. I have already said some post ago you can form a Union with whoever you like in this world. The problem is, how and what it give to the other entity? What I said was the reason to form the NEAU is as flimsy as you go form a South East Asian Union, I have already expressed my point at post #272. I am not going to reiterate it again.

And the same is to you, I am not the one that reply to your post in the first place, in fact, it was you who replied to mine at #272 first, if you have a problem on what I said, then Why can't you be a silent reader like everybody else? And if you don't know what "8 Chi" mean, please drop your Hong Kong Flag as no way you are a Hong Konger.

That nothin. [American] ppl actually got killed in the ones the American CIA staged. At least the Japs don't kill their own. Now who has the higher moral ground?

lol, let me tell you who have no moral high ground, YOU.

You first accuse of US bombing Civilian without warning. Then after that being exposed as a lies, you shift the focus to 9/11 never happened. Then you got countered by a point that the Japanese have been doing the same in WW2, and now you said Japanese does not kill their own?

By the way, you portrait like you are a Japanese, but no Japanese or people who respect the Japanes would use the word "JAPS" in his post.

So, let me conclude this discussion with you, you have been lying, cheating, and now you are not even certain where did you stand in this discussion, that make you the last person in this forum to preach about "Moral High Ground"

And in the end, as I said in my alast few post, I NEVER EVER SAID the US IS ON A MORAL HIGHGROUND EITHER, just that people who live in grass house should not throw stone. If you cannot get what I meant, then too bad. Because my post is simply exposing you as a pathetic liar with zilch moral. And I did, so I am not going to interact with you anymore.

 

[hirobo2]

First of all, you have zero understand of how political union work, you have to be because you think ASEAN is an Political union. Political Union is not just focus on economic cooperation, but a share of defence responsibility as well. In EU, there are something called EU battlegroup which one country will station troop on another for "Cooperative Defence" And something ASEAN and SAARC is lacking.

Second of all, EU formed on the back foot of European Community, which based on the European Movement International established in 1947 after the WW2. The philosophy is that it seek to provide a structure to encourage and facilitate the active participation of citizens and civil society organisations in the development of a united Europe.

European Movement International - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EU is the basic Idea that European have to be remain united on the premises that incident like WW2 will not ever happened again in Europe. By bonding together, it become harder to break. Economic Cooperation in that stage is not a consideration.

I am not saying EU was form without consideration of Economic partnership, but unlike what you said, EU is not simply an organisation that transformed from and Economic Union into a supranational institution. Quite contrary, EU is the other way around, it was a supranational institution and later focus and emphasis on Economic Cooperation.

Thirdly and lastly, I never said NEAU can never be able to establish. I have already said some post ago you can form a Union with whoever you like in this world. The problem is, how and what it give to the other entity? What I said was the reason to form the NEAU is as flimsy as you go form a South East Asian Union, I have already expressed my point at post #272. I am not going to reiterate it again.

And the same is to you, I am not the one that reply to your post in the first place, in fact, it was you who replied to mine at #272 first, if you have a problem on what I said, then Why can't you be a silent reader like everybody else? And if you don't know what "8 Chi" mean, please drop your Hong Kong Flag as no way you are a Hong Konger.



lol, let me tell you who have no moral high ground, YOU.

You first accuse of US bombing Civilian without warning. Then after that being exposed as a lies, you shift the focus to 9/11 never happened. Then you got countered by a point that the Japanese have been doing the same in WW2, and now you said Japanese does not kill their own?

By the way, you portrait like you are a Japanese, but no Japanese or people who respect the Japanes would use the word "JAPS" in his post.

So, let me conclude this discussion with you, you have been lying, cheating, and now you are not even certain where did you stand in this discussion, that make you the last person in this forum to preach about "Moral High Ground"

And in the end, as I said in my alast few post, I NEVER EVER SAID the US IS ON A MORAL HIGHGROUND EITHER, just that people who like in grass house should not throw stone. If you cannot get what I meant, then too bad. Because my post is simply exposing you as a pathetic liar with zilch moral. And I did, so I am not going to interact with you anymore.

Thank you for the compliment. I've always considered myself a type of Darth Vader personality. See my avatar to the left? It's red (as in red lightsaber) on black b/c I'm... Dark Side evil... and the words read "Kamui" in Japanese as an allusion to God-like Dark Forces...

 

[gambit]

Enduring freedom my rear end. CIA planted bombs inside the twin towers. Flew RC airplanes into them. Set off the bombs floor by floor to coordinate the collapse. Claimed Al Qaeda did it as pretext to attack Afghan/Iraq, for whatever reasons we don't know...

It had to happened...Another 9/11 Troofer...

 

[hirobo2]

It had to happened...Another 9/11 Troofer...

Buddy, I'm not the only one. Just ask any Muslims living in the US (though I am not one myself). They all know Bin Ladden is a CIA operative having a blast posing as a Sith Lord on TV...

 

[Aepsilons]

I see people arguing about Chinese/Japanese nationalist sentiments as an obstacle here. True, both Chinese and Japanese people (and Korean people also) are quite nationlists in general, and it seems like the reason of tensions between East Asian countries(the real reason is China and Japan are in different "camps" , where the west--especially US lurks). That is what the westerner may think, a typical outsider thought( like I said, I don't think they really understand us). I think on the contrary, it is exactly the same nationalism may put the union together. What is nationalism? It is simply a resonace or proud feeling to a bunch of people who share great similarity with me, it is actually the simple animal instinct of preserving the herd or the clan. A fun fact is, the similarity between China/Japan/Korea is just too much, which is exact the same root of their nationalism. If you look deeper, you can understand what the nationalism of China/Japan really is.
China and Japan (and Korea) are both proud of the uniqueness and greatness of their history and ideology, the nationalists in each country claimed they charished their tradional way the most (and I believe them), but the tradional ways of China and Japan and Korea are too much similar, a Chinese nationalist can not really against Japanese ideology that much because Japan just inherited too much from China that most of their concepts are exactly the same with ours, and the same logic applys to a Japanese nationalist too. So the most odd thing appeared--Chinese nationalists accuse Japan to be ungrateful and betral and see Japan as a "mutant China", whereas Japanese nationalists accuse China to be crrupted and barbaric and claim Japan as the “authentic China”--well, you can't find such an amusing "nationalism" toward eachother elsewhere in the world--they aren't just proud of thensleves, they kind of be proud of each other too.
In fact, if you see through the history of China and Japan, you may understand my point better. Not only they both applied Confucian ideology and social-political system, but also they share literally a whole culture system which is the fundamental element of both countries‘ nationalism. Japanese scholars could read and write Chinese classic without obstacle, famous Japanese poets could create Chinese poem( although I think they sucked at it compare to Chinese poets because they didn't pronounce the same way like the Chinese did, but still, they were better than most Chinese or at least on peer with a well-educated Chinese scholar). On the other hand, most of ( if not all) the modern words (from the west) in Chinese language were actually translated by Japanese enlightenment thinkers( who were Confucian masters and interpreted western concepts into Chinese classics). It was Japanese enlightenment thinkers who firstly put forward the idea of "保种保教"( to preserve our race and our belief ), they found out the correct direction( to unify or integrate East Asia, aka Confucian sphere) to resist the West but the followers went to a wrong way( by conquering and invasion), as for now we are still trying to work out the possibility of their thoughts(the NEAU thing).
The reason Chinese and Japanese pubilc opinions are so against eachother seems to be complicated, but in general it is simple enough. On the upper level, you can see Chinese people hate Imperial Japan for the great casualty and damage in WW II, but deep down it is the feeling of betrayed and embarrassed hurt the most, like you are backstabbed by a family or a brother. From the Japanese side, you can see Japanese people hate China for growing stronger and "aggressive" and worried about China's "revenge", but deep down it is disappointment which haunted Japan for almost 200 years, they got disppointed and grew anger by a continuous weak and stooping China after expecting China to get stronger fast and fought the west along with them, so they felt superior and looked down upon the rest of East Asia. Today Japanese people still think modern China is not "the same China as it should be", and they dislike "modern" China. Even with political and territorial disputes, there were good times for China & Japan, you can tell it from Japanese novels and TV shows in the 80s. I once read a popular Japanese novel named “Strike of the Minsk”(明斯克號出擊), in which I saw something like this: ( after the Soviet invation to China, Japanese volunteers made public speech)" China is the mother of our 2000 years civilization, and it is recreancy for a son to just stand by and watch when some guy killing his mother". So yep, political and territorial issue may exist, but not necessarily the hostility. In fact you can get a hint from this thread, as now tensions continue in East Asia, there are still so many Chinese and Japanese vouching for the idea of a union, the attitude itself has proven something.Therefore I can say, the nationalist sentiment between China and Japan (And Korea) is a complex mixed love and hatred together, it's pretty weird, but once China get stronger and better and Japan( Korea) get more independent, people may cherish the similarity more than the disagreement, because they both get confident enough to see the true names and the traditions of their own, which means they can finally explict the common thoughts and get things restored as it should be.

PERFECT.

I think you should focus more on the next generation like kids,students etc. Current generation ,the 30+ are hopeless.

Our children and our grandchildren, more so.

Let me tell you one thing --- generational change is true. My grandfather was a veteran of the Imperial Navy and his brothers too (all 4 had died in the war against America). My grandmother had brothers who were in the Imperial Army and were deployed in Asia.

My uncle married a woman from China, and his children are raised with both Chinese and Japanese identity; tho they are more associating with their Cantonese identity more since they live in Guangzhou. When we were younger my uncle would bring my cousins to Japan and we all would spend our Summers at our grandparents place near Sapporo. My grandfather , a former Imperial naval officer , had loved my cousins the same as me and my siblings.

See how much had changed from 1940 to 1985, 1990, 1995? The perception of animosity or distrust had changed and in my family we had a special appreciation for China through our bond with my aunt and cousins. And my cousins adored our grandfather who loved them unconditionally.

I can still remember my Ojisan crying whenever my cousins had to go back to Guangzhou.

Generations change, and even the older generation see the bond of both sides .....

 

[Viva_Viet]

The rest of your post is just garbage, as you have zero knowledge on Geopolitics. I never said there should never be a NEAU because it will piss the pants of other South/South Eastern Nation, I said if such Union is form, it will not be used to challenge the US or the West, as you seems to forget there are 2 big country is next to your China, India and Russia. And they will see your NEAU more of a threat than the US, and you know what they will do?

Form a bloody South/Central Union themselves. Or better yet, forming NEAU would probably push Russia to join NATO and EU. Using your own argument on NEAU, both Russian and NATO are white dominated country, both are of Christianity, if China and Japan or Korea and Japan can set aside their different and join into a Union, why not Russian and NATO?

LOL, don't be such a 8 chi.

When NEAU formed, VN would unify sub Mekong successfully for long time already, so, NEAU will not be our threat

....but I still cant imagine how NEAU get stronger when all of them make money by only one way: selling products to US-EU. What if US-EU dislike them and stop buying their products ??...oh, their economies will be all death.

 

[Aepsilons]

When NEAU formed, VN would unify sub Mekong successfully for long time already, so, NEAU will not be our threat

Viet Nam shall be included into the eternal embrace of Great East Asia.

And there shall be peace.

Dim Sum, Goi Cuon , Bulgogi and Gyoza, anyone ?

....but I still cant imagine how NEAU get stronger when all of them make money by only one way: selling products to US-EU. What if US-EU dislike them and stop buying their products ??...oh, their economies will be all death.

All death? LOL.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

When NEAU formed, VN would unify sub Mekong successfully for long time already, so, NEAU will not be our threat

....but I still cant imagine how NEAU get stronger when all of them make money by only one way: selling products to US-EU. What if US-EU dislike them and stop buying their products ??...oh, their economies will be all death.

One belt one road ring a bell??? we're trying to diversify ourself and if US-EU stop buying our products, who will they buy from?? Vietnam

 

[Aepsilons]

One belt one road ring a bell??? we're trying to diversify ourself and if US-EU stop buying our products, who will they buy from?? Vietnam

LOL, Viet Nam already is a beneficiary of Japanese and Korean investment .

As for China they have a MASSIVE trade with Beijing worth north of $65 Billion per year.

So no matter what our Viet Friend says, the truth of the matter is that Viet Nam's greatest trade and development partners are with East Asia (China Korea and Japan). Dependency of growth and trade is already in one direction, LOL.

I suppose Pho dac biet really likes to be eaten with Congee. LOL.

 

[hirobo2]

My uncle married a woman from China, and his children are raised with both Chinese and Japanese identity; tho they are more associating with their Cantonese identity more since they live in Guangzhou.

Omedetou. Japanese ppl r the best looking ppl in the world. I can't even imagine what 1/2 lings look like. Well actually I can. IMO Takeshi Kaneshiro (half Japanese) is one of the coolest actor dudes...

 

[Tiqiu]

When NEAU formed, VN would unify sub Mekong successfully for long time already, so, NEAU will not be our threat

....but I still cant imagine how NEAU get stronger when all of them make money by only one way: selling products to US-EU. What if US-EU dislike them and stop buying their products ??...oh, their economies will be all death.

We got it, you are adamant supporter of TPP, believing it will put us on the death bed in 2024. If the TPP is so good for you country, why did Vietnam have to request a 20 years grace period of time to comply?

Unlike you, the Indians are thinking otherwise.

With TPP advancing, India pins hopes on China-backed trade bloc
With TPP advancing, India pins hopes on China-backed trade bloc
Reuters New Delhi Last Updated: February 11, 2016 | 11:40 IST

India, concerned at being sidelined from the US-led Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), is stepping up efforts to reach agreement with an alternative trade bloc centred around China, and hopes to reach a deal this year.

New Delhi has long been seen by many countries as an intransigent player at the World Trade Organization (WTO), a multilateral forum that has struggled to find the consensus it needs to move forward.

Now, after 12 advanced economies accounting for 40 percent of the global economy signed a TPP deal this month, India's trade negotiators feel they need to get a move on.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi has backed an export-focused 'Make in India' drive as the path to prosperity for Asia's third-largest economy, where per capita output is $1,688 a year, one fifth that in China.

With TPP out of reach - India was not invited to join - India's negotiators are focussing instead on a Chinese-led grouping called the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) that would improve its access to Asian markets.

Trade representatives meet in Brunei from Feb. 15-19 to iron out differences on tariffs.

A senior New Delhi official, who asked not to be named, told Reuters that India was hopeful of striking a tariff-cutting deal this year, in the clearest indication yet that India wants to accelerate progress on a bloc first launched in 2012.

Ganeshan Wignaraja of the Asian Development Bank said a breakthrough on RCEP would help mitigate the competitive disadvantage of India being absent from the TPP.

"Concluding an RCEP agreement would mark a key milestone for the Modi government," he said.

Experts caution that India has shown little appetite to open its market to imports, even as it seeks to ramp up exports, not least because of a gaping trade deficit with China.

"India is worried about opening up to China," said Professor Bernard Hoekman, a trade expert at the Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies in Italy, adding he very much doubted an RCEP deal would happen this year.

With the TPP lacking votes in Congress and likely to be put on hold if a Republican is elected US president, any sign China is seizing the initiative in the trade arena could raise concerns over Washington's declining clout in Asia.

Beijing has already redrawn the financial map by launching the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, with backing from close US allies like Britain.

LOSING BUSINESS

New Delhi fears the TPP, although years away from reality, could mean losing some textile and drugs exports to countries like Vietnam, which has embraced both the TPP and the RCEP.

It could also raise barriers to entry on labour, environment and intellectual property when it comes to seeking access to other markets, officials said.

"The TPP will certainly have an impact on India's exports," Commerce Minister Nirmala Sitharaman said. "It is most likely to affect sectors like leather goods, plastics, chemicals, textiles and clothing."

Talks on creating the 16-member RCEP could be the last hope for some Indian companies to break into the global supply chain.

The group comprises the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), China, Japan, South Korea, India, Australia and New Zealand.

If signed, the regional free trade agreement would create an economic bloc with a population of 3.4 billion and trade volume of over $17 trillion.

"We can't waste time," said Chandrajit Banerjee, director general of the Confederation of Indian Industry, which represents manufacturers. "TPP will basically change the landscape of global trade."

Successful export industries, particularly garment and drug makers, are urging Modi to speed up RCEP talks and wrap up trade deals with the European Union and Australia.

But steel, tyre and chemical firms want him to go slow, saying they have been undercut by free trade pacts already done with ASEAN, South Korea, Thailand and Japan.

Indian merchandise exports have fallen for 13 months in a row, depressed by weakening global demand and slumping commodity prices. To boost its stagnant 1.7 percent share of global exports, India needs to raise productivity and move up the value chain, economists say.

 

[Viva_Viet]

One belt one road ring a bell??? we're trying to diversify ourself and if US-EU stop buying our products, who will they buy from?? Vietnam

No, TPP come out in 2018, and CN economy still death in 2028.

Of course, TPP members will buy VNese products, they cant buy products from any countries that r on black list of Money manipulation such as CN. Why so surprise abt it ??

 

[Aepsilons]

Omedetou. Japanese ppl r the best looking ppl in the world. I can't even imagine what 1/2 lings look like. Well actually I can. IMO Takeshi Kaneshiro (half Japanese) is one of the coolest actor dudes...

My cousins are very beautiful . They take after their mother who is a very beautiful Cantonese Chinese. That is why my uncle married her , I guess.