Norouz at the tomb of Cyrus the Great

[Arian]

Sure let me do it tomorrow. Good night guys.

Good night.

Junkies? You have a really wrong view of Netherlands. Draw disrespectable cartoons? You should learn to respect freedom of expression and not be so quick tempered. I don't see Christians burning whole cities because Jesus is being disrespected.

I beg to differ. Freedom of expression doesn't justify discriminative cartoons, offensive expression to a group of people, racism, or anything of the sort. Just like we condemn extremist people like Hussain who insults any idea that he is not familiar with, we should condemn such people that offense hundreds of millions of people by drawing offensive cartoons.

Also I think It was Denmark that a cartoonist draw an offensive picture of Muhammad the prophet.

 

[Arian]

EDIT: Double post.

 

[Surenas]

Good night.

I beg to differ. Freedom of expression doesn't justify discriminative cartoons, offensive expression to a group of people, racism, or anything of the sort. Just like we condemn extremist people like Hussain who insults any idea that he is not familiar with, we should condemn such people that offense hundreds of millions of people by drawing offensive cartoons.

Also I think It was Denmark that a cartoonist draw an offensive picture of Muhammad the prophet.

Yes, it was Denmark.

But I don't agree with you. It's not racism or discrimination to view Muhammad in a quite humoristic way. Muslims should be less tempered and respect that in European countries you have freedom of expression.

 

[Arian]

Yes, it was Denmark.

But I don't agree with you. It's not racism or discrimination to view Muhammad in a quite humoristic way. Muslims should be less tempered and respect that in European countries you have freedom of expression.

Not really. I see double standards. I'm sure many people in Europe would feel offended if someone draws a cartoon and ridicules the holocaust even if the event is unrelated to them. We all saw what happened when Ahmadinejad questioned the 6 million figure. And don't forget that Ahmadinejad didn't insult the holocaust believers, he just questioned it. But insulting Muhammad, as a person who many people believe in him, is not a right action.
We could talk from now till tomorrow that whether freedom of speech justifies insulting or not, but I'm sure we won't come to a conclusion. Muslims need to cool down and behave in a more rational manner, but it doesn't mean that if they haven't, you are free to draw anything you like and insult them anyway you want.

 

[Surenas]

Not really. I see double standards. I'm sure many people in Europe would feel offended if someone draws a cartoon and ridicules the holocaust even if the event is unrelated to them. We all saw what happened when Ahmadinejad questioned the 6 million figure. And don't forget that Ahmadinejad didn't insult the holocaust believers, he just questioned it. But insulting Muhammad, as a person who many people believe in him, is not a right action.
We could talk from now till tomorrow that whether freedom of speech justifies insulting or not, but I'm sure we won't come to a conclusion. Muslims need to cool down and behave in a more rational manner, but it doesn't mean that if they haven't, you are free to draw anything you like and insult them anyway you want.

You try to correlate two completely different things. People are offended in Europe because millions of people died during the holocaust, while those cartoons are just artistic drawings of a man who many people see as a prophet, while to me and many Europeans he's just a historical figure. Why can Christians laugh at those kind of drawings about Jesus and muslims not?

 

[Ir.Tab.]

Not really. I see double standards. ... and insult them anyway you want.

One wise has said our life could be divided to two categories: Insulting and get insulted!

 

[Arian]

You try to correlate two completely different things. People are offended in Europe because millions of people died during the holocaust, while those cartoons are just artistic drawings of a man who many people see as a prophet. Why can Christians laugh at those kind of drawings about Jesus and muslims not?

No. I think you're applying double standards here. The concept is the same. Two group of people believe in two different beliefs. If you insult their beliefs, they will feel frustrated. It's a very easy concept I think.

Also, there are people who believe the holocaust did not happen in the scale claimed. And some of them are very distinguished people as well. So it's not like everyone is a holocaust believer. We have holocaust believers and deniers, but that's not the issue here. The issue is, most people in Europe, see the holocaust as a red line for freedom of expression and countries like France even have jail sentence for denying it, so if freedom of expression could be restricted at will, why muslims can't have red lines for themselves? double standards? huh?

I'm heading to my bed Surenas. Have a good time.

 

[Surenas]

No. I think you're applying double standards here. The concept is the same. Two group of people believe in two different beliefs. If you insult their beliefs, they will feel frustrated. It's a very easy concept I think.

Also, there are people, who believe the holocaust, did not happen in the scale claimed. And some of them are very distinguished people as well. So it's not like everyone is a holocaust believer. We have holocaust believers and deniers, but that's not the issue here. The issue is, most people in Europe, see the holocaust as a red line for freedom of expression and countries like France even have jail sentence for denying it, so why muslims can't have red lines for themselves? double standards? huh?

I'm heading to my bed Surenas. Have a good time.

Come on man, are you really that short sighted? Holocaust is not a belief, it's a fact. Good night.

 

[Arian]

Come on man, are you really that short sighted? Holocaust is not a belief, it's a fact. Good night.

The holocaust itself as a historic event is a well-documented fact, but the 6 million figure for the massacre of Jews is only a claim that has turned out to be a belief for many people.

 

[Surenas]

The holocaust itself as a historic event is a well-documented fact, but the 6 million figure for the massacre of Jews is only a claim that has turned out to be a belief for many people.

Not a claim, but a proven fact.

 

[Sina]

..........

 

[Uchiha]

Not a claim, but a proven fact.

You counted the graves yourself? Or do you have a complete compilation of the nazi documents?

 

[Arian]

Not a claim, but a proven fact.

Only a claim, a very ill-documented claim that is used for propaganda.

 

[Surenas]

You counted the graves yourself? Or do you have a complete compilation of the nazi documents?

No, but historical archives have them. I also don't have witnessed the Greek-Persian war, but we still know it happened.

Only a claim, a very ill-documented claim that is used for propaganda.

No, much proof for it. Just open your eyes in stead of believing those revisionist idiots.

 

[Arian]

No, much proof for it. Just open your eyes in stead of believing those revisionist idiots.

It's clear that you have no clue about the event then. Actually I think the people that believe in the 6 million figure are idiots and fools. Many people, not only Ahmadinejad who did it for political reasons, have cast doubt on the 6 million figure. Probably the only number in the WWII that has never been changed is the 6 million figure. All numbers during the WWII have been first highly exaggerated but later were changed to better approximations, the holocaust figure never changed. Even though that many numbers related to it changed but they always claim that those wrong numbers had never been used in the 6 million figure. LOL

If we want to talk about the holocaust, considering that it was the massacre of East Europeans, not only Jews, because many Slavs also died in the event, we should believe that the Nazi Germany has killed over 10 million people systematically. How? With gas chambers!!! The funny thing is that they believe over 11 to 18 million people have been killed in the holocaust, many of them were Slavs, Romans, Baltic people, dissabled people, etc, so there's a 7 million people range of error, but the only one that is fixed and is even stronger than the word of God is the 6 million Jewish figure. Give me a break.

The 6 million figure is a very weakly documented claim. It's more about propaganda than a claim though.