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Featured No Weapons to Pakistan; Russia assures India during Rajnath's visit to Moscow

ever heard something called CM-400AKG ?


bramos speed - mach 3
cm400akg speed - mach 4

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I am still perplexed why Indians think the Brahmos is some kind of super weapon ... a terminal speed of Mach 2.8 is pretty mediocre these days compared to other supersonic cruise missiles. Its flight trajectory is extremely predictable due to the late Soviet era guidance system and the missile itself has no RCS reduction, meaning its interception is quite likely. At least there seems to be less Indians bragging about Brahmos these days though; back in the late 2000s, you would have thought the Brahmos was some kind of superweapon the way they were talking about them on forums.
I would ask the Indians a question will Russia provide arms to India Incase of a war with China lol

kv
Easy answer : no. Russia would stop supplying either country with weaponry should war arise. The only problem is only one country needs these supplies and we all know who it is :enjoy:.
 
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I am still perplexed why Indians think the Brahmos is some kind of super weapon ... a terminal speed of Mach 2.8 is pretty mediocre these days compared to other supersonic cruise missiles. Its flight trajectory is extremely predictable due to the late Soviet era guidance system and the missile itself has no RCS reduction, meaning its interception is quite likely. At least there seems to be less Indians bragging about Brahmos these days though; back in the late 2000s, you would have thought the Brahmos was some kind of superweapon the way they were talking about them on forums.

Easy answer : no. Russia would stop supplying either country with weaponry should war arise. The only problem is only one country needs these supplies and we all know who it is :enjoy:.
Its another su30mki aka raptor of east
 
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This cm400 was really if that powerful then why it's not even discussed like BRAHMOS???

Bcz we are not Indians who gloat about feats that are not even their own so relax and sit down. All that matters is that we have a counter to Brahmos. There is also a ship based version in development but i doubt you saw any one bragging about it like Indians do about Brahmos. When you are confident about capabilities of something then you let it speak for it self rather than beating drums in every corner of the world about it.
 
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if Indi buys F-35 from US.. that will be a bad news for Pakistan...
 
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A country that sold a bloody engine to Pakistan won't sell weapons LOL These Indians and their BS.
 
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These are news but under the carpet russia playing double game with bhindians friend of my enemy is my enemy russia want to milk idiot india cow as much as usa who milks this cow more wins
 
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If this were true (not in a million years), then Russia would've blocked RD-93 engines for Pakistan. That's not the case, and indians are still living in parallel dimension. Today's Russia is smarter and more deadlier to the west, than Soviet Union could ever be. And Russia knows very well that india is by nature, duplicitous. As india is visibly inching closer toward it's white masters. It's pathetic how these guys behave.
Engine availability has always been a source of speculation for the JF-17 program — initially the lack of a Western-made powerplant — and whether Moscow would continue to supply the RD-93, leading Pakistan to look for an alternative because we learn a hard lesson in 1971 and don't want to repeat the same mistake.
An alternative does exist in the Chinese Guizhou WS-13, but analysts do not consider it yet to have matured. With the guaranteed availability of the RD-93 signed in December 2014, Russia and Pakistan announced a defense cooperation agreement, which stipulated that Islamabad would buy the Klimov RD-93 engine directly from Moscow, instead of acquiring the hardware vicariously via China. This Rajnat's recent visit to Russia reminded Bear of the old wounds given by us and the US's messenger of a recent skirmish /B-52/Suk-27 between US and Russia and the pentagon recent report on China's nuclear power threat which wet the Indian and US dohti . Let see how solid Russian stand on the agreement and enjoy his warm water dreams and earn more dollars from upcoming CPEC projects.

The only issue is whether a more powerful, and perhaps thrust-vectoring, variant may be adopted at a future date.
Yes and No on WS-13 engine analysis from my Chinese friend who is
Aviation nerd, especially on Chinese fighters., and this what is he is thinking.
First,JF-17s are equipped with RD-93 currently.
RD-93 = RD-33 moving gearbox to the bottom.
WS-13 is the intended domestic engine for JF-17.
WS-13 = licensed RD-33 + redesigned former fans. Slightly increased thrust, shorter service life.
WS-13's development was behind the plane itself. It first ignited back around 2000, and took the first flight test as late as 2010 on a JF-17. There were intense flight tests between 10~14, and the engine's design and testing were finalized around 2015.
So technically, YES. WS-13 is a ready product and can be produced for JF-17 if needed.
But, still, NO. He don't think current WS-13 will go on JF-17s.
First, there are still RD-93 in stock.
Back in the late 90s, when JF-17 was finally getting in the fast lane after a decade's up and downs, China had already realized how difficult it is to develop modern jet engines, and experienced a major fighter develop failure due to the problem with engines.
Since JF-17 is a crucial platform for Pakistan, both sides decided to use a matured engine to get the project going, hence, the RD-33 was chosen and developed into RD-93.
RD-93 insured the success of JF-17 in such a short time, without it, there's little chance to deliver the planes before WS-13 was done.
But RD-93 is provided in a particular way. First, Russia exports RD-93s to China, and signs agreement allows China to re-export them to whomever it wishes. In this case, Pakistan.
This avoids direct deals between Russia and Pakistan. Thus it's technically all big bad China's fault if India gets upset, which is OK by China because India gets upset about it all the time. This recent visit to Rajanat to Moscow and exposed him picture how literally he begs to his Russian counterpart and give dollars of briefcase and asking please do not give this engine to Pakistan
So China is holding the engines before they are exported again for JF-17, since no other plane in China uses RD-93 (and the same for WS-13), there's no point producing WS-13s to replace it while the stock lasts.
As for the stock number? Different reports said different numbers on RD-93 orders during the years, but most said 150+ at least. With this number, there's really no hurry changing to WS-13 for current JF-17s.
Second, for Block III, WS-13E would be preferred to the base model.
Block III was said to be planed with WS-13, but I always suspect ChengDu and PAF never stopped evaluating better options.
The reasons are clear. New avionics are more power hungry, especially the planed AESA, you need to draw more power from the engine. Unfortunately JF-17 is already a little underpowered with RD-93, its' TWR is slightly under 1.0 for a fighter, and the 3.7-ton payload is not optimal for air support missions, especially considering the newer L-15B and FA-50 can carry well over 3.5 tons despite their smaller air frame.
WS-13E might just be the solution. It pushes the thrust to 9500 Kg level, while reduces engine weight. Thus the engine's TWR is substantially improved.
WS-13E achieved this by redesigning RD-33's chamber and adopting a new turbine design from Klimov on RD-33MKM.
The interesting thing is that RD-33MKM is said to adopt WS-13's former fan design too, AECC and Klimov are working closely on RD-33 series that WS-13E and RD-33MKM are almost the same solutions with different executions.
The development is going smoothly so far, it had entered flight test in late 2016, so if things normally go, it was expected to be ready by 2019.
In fact, I think the "WS-13E" theory can well explain what takes Block III so long, considering AESA and WS-13 are already on-shelf options now. If it's waiting for a better engine, it actually makes much sense.
Chengdu can use the time to tweak the structures, maybe adding more hardpoints to take advantage of increased thrust, pushing payload well over 5 tons.
For PAF, Block III is a needed upgrade, and this is a puzzle after this Russian announcement, we all know our future tie with China.Let's see and watch. we are all in interesting era of new Geopolitical change, where there is no ummah chumma business 98% percent of pakistan population is muslim and if we give them strong future it serve the purpose of Ummah , we all bond with what is best for nation interest in future and see the true friends who really sacrifies their material ineterst with our stance.:china::pakistan::turkey:🇲🇾🇮🇷🇶🇦🇳🇵🇱🇰🇲🇻🇧🇩
 
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Engine availability has always been a source of speculation for the JF-17 program — initially the lack of a Western-made powerplant — and whether Moscow would continue to supply the RD-93, leading Pakistan to look for an alternative because we learn a hard lesson in 1971 and don't want to repeat the same mistake.
An alternative does exist in the Chinese Guizhou WS-13, but analysts do not consider it yet to have matured. With the guaranteed availability of the RD-93 signed in December 2014, Russia and Pakistan announced a defense cooperation agreement, which stipulated that Islamabad would buy the Klimov RD-93 engine directly from Moscow, instead of acquiring the hardware vicariously via China. This Rajnat's recent visit to Russia reminded Bear of the old wounds given by us and the US's messenger of a recent skirmish /B-52/Suk-27 between US and Russia and the pentagon recent report on China's nuclear power threat which wet the Indian and US dohti . Let see how solid Russian stand on the agreement and enjoy his warm water dreams and earn more dollars from upcoming CPEC projects.

The only issue is whether a more powerful, and perhaps thrust-vectoring, variant may be adopted at a future date.
Yes and No on WS-13 engine analysis from my Chinese friend who is
Aviation nerd, especially on Chinese fighters., and this what is he is thinking.
First,JF-17s are equipped with RD-93 currently.
RD-93 = RD-33 moving gearbox to the bottom.
WS-13 is the intended domestic engine for JF-17.
WS-13 = licensed RD-33 + redesigned former fans. Slightly increased thrust, shorter service life.
WS-13's development was behind the plane itself. It first ignited back around 2000, and took the first flight test as late as 2010 on a JF-17. There were intense flight tests between 10~14, and the engine's design and testing were finalized around 2015.
So technically, YES. WS-13 is a ready product and can be produced for JF-17 if needed.
But, still, NO. He don't think current WS-13 will go on JF-17s.
First, there are still RD-93 in stock.
Back in the late 90s, when JF-17 was finally getting in the fast lane after a decade's up and downs, China had already realized how difficult it is to develop modern jet engines, and experienced a major fighter develop failure due to the problem with engines.
Since JF-17 is a crucial platform for Pakistan, both sides decided to use a matured engine to get the project going, hence, the RD-33 was chosen and developed into RD-93.
RD-93 insured the success of JF-17 in such a short time, without it, there's little chance to deliver the planes before WS-13 was done.
But RD-93 is provided in a particular way. First, Russia exports RD-93s to China, and signs agreement allows China to re-export them to whomever it wishes. In this case, Pakistan.
This avoids direct deals between Russia and Pakistan. Thus it's technically all big bad China's fault if India gets upset, which is OK by China because India gets upset about it all the time. This recent visit to Rajanat to Moscow and exposed him picture how literally he begs to his Russian counterpart and give dollars of briefcase and asking please do not give this engine to Pakistan
So China is holding the engines before they are exported again for JF-17, since no other plane in China uses RD-93 (and the same for WS-13), there's no point producing WS-13s to replace it while the stock lasts.
As for the stock number? Different reports said different numbers on RD-93 orders during the years, but most said 150+ at least. With this number, there's really no hurry changing to WS-13 for current JF-17s.
Second, for Block III, WS-13E would be preferred to the base model.
Block III was said to be planed with WS-13, but I always suspect ChengDu and PAF never stopped evaluating better options.
The reasons are clear. New avionics are more power hungry, especially the planed AESA, you need to draw more power from the engine. Unfortunately JF-17 is already a little underpowered with RD-93, its' TWR is slightly under 1.0 for a fighter, and the 3.7-ton payload is not optimal for air support missions, especially considering the newer L-15B and FA-50 can carry well over 3.5 tons despite their smaller air frame.
WS-13E might just be the solution. It pushes the thrust to 9500 Kg level, while reduces engine weight. Thus the engine's TWR is substantially improved.
WS-13E achieved this by redesigning RD-33's chamber and adopting a new turbine design from Klimov on RD-33MKM.
The interesting thing is that RD-33MKM is said to adopt WS-13's former fan design too, AECC and Klimov are working closely on RD-33 series that WS-13E and RD-33MKM are almost the same solutions with different executions.
The development is going smoothly so far, it had entered flight test in late 2016, so if things normally go, it was expected to be ready by 2019.
In fact, I think the "WS-13E" theory can well explain what takes Block III so long, considering AESA and WS-13 are already on-shelf options now. If it's waiting for a better engine, it actually makes much sense.
Chengdu can use the time to tweak the structures, maybe adding more hardpoints to take advantage of increased thrust, pushing payload well over 5 tons.
For PAF, Block III is a needed upgrade, and this is a puzzle after this Russian announcement, we all know our future tie with China.Let's see and watch. we are all in interesting era of new Geopolitical change, where there is no ummah chumma business 98% percent of pakistan population is muslim and if we give them strong future it serve the purpose of Ummah , we all bond with what is best for nation interest in future and see the true friends who really sacrifies their material ineterst with our stance.:china::pakistan::turkey:🇲🇾🇮🇷🇶🇦🇳🇵🇱🇰🇲🇻🇧🇩

A very astute analysis, I must say!

When it comes to the WS-13 engine, it is important that it has a endurance. TBO is as important and crucial to Thunder's performance as full military power and fuel consumption efficiency. For that reason, be it RD-93 or WS-13, it is important that Pakistan Air Force selects the best available option. As in Air Combat, the rate and quantity of sorties you are able to generate, determines the course of war. Which is why, I would urge Pakistan to join Russia or China or Iran or all three of them, in joint study and development of high efficiency, greater thrust and long endurance TBO.

Thunder, given the circumstances from its concept to inception, has achieved a heck of a lot more, than certain buffoons who have had all the money, all the western expertise and all their support to develop a light weight fighter jet. So I think it's fair on part to Pakistan Air Force, when it would be specifically selective on Thunder's power plant. We would love to have a WS-13 powering the Thunder. But it should be a WS-13 that out classes it's near competitors in the west.
 
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A very astute analysis, I must say!

When it comes to the WS-13 engine, it is important that it has a endurance. TBO is as important and crucial to Thunder's performance as full military power and fuel consumption efficiency. For that reason, be it RD-93 or WS-13, it is important that Pakistan Air Force selects the best available option. As in Air Combat, the rate and quantity of sorties you are able to generate, determines the course of war. Which is why, I would urge Pakistan to join Russia or China or Iran or all three of them, in joint study and development of high efficiency, greater thrust and long endurance TBO.

Thunder, given the circumstances from its concept to inception, has achieved a heck of a lot more, than certain buffoons who have had all the money, all the western expertise and all their support to develop a light weight fighter jet. So I think it's fair on part to Pakistan Air Force, when it would be specifically selective on Thunder's power plant. We would love to have a WS-13 powering the Thunder. But it should be a WS-13 that out classes it's near competitors in the west.
These buffaoons are always a problem child for us and such an attitude was expected not new because these Buffaon created a problem for us when Pakistan announced that it could procure 150-300 JF-17 aircraft to meet the tactical and strategic needs of its Air Force. Russia, whose military cooperation with India had been bogged down by a number of sensitive issues, such as a delay in the overhaul of the Gorshkov aircraft carrier and a price escalation with the Su-30 MKI contract, informed China in 2006 that re-exporting RD-93 engines were not allowed without Moscow's permission. We learn how to maneuver our JF-17 needs with our time tested friend, china.

The WS13 engine is 4.14 meters long, 1.02 meters in diameter, weighing 1,135 kg. The engine will have a major repair interval of roughly 810 hrs, service life span 2200 hrs, both far exceed the RD-33 engine. Most western jets have easily double the amount of time interval between overhauls and double the engine life when compared to Chinese and/or Russian engines. The difference lies in material sciences. The alloys and materials used can double the life of the engine thus greatly reducing service costs. Metallurgy was a old art of muslims then west took from us Pray with Allah bless us more noble people like AQ khan who understand material science and strengthen our defense.
 
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