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No Pak ban on Hafiz Saeed from giving hate speeches

did a single politician or figurehead come to his defence, save for his self-appointed lawyer?

those who are his followers appreciate him because of his support to Kashmiris and because of the charity works his organization has done, such as schools and infrastructure projects in rural areas
Yeah.. sure.. You got a modern day Robin hood there.. And why didnt they come to his defence. They have no problem sharing a public rally podium with him.. Do they know something that prevents them from defending him..lest they get embarrassed later?


me personally, i am numb. I don't pay much attention to him. It is the standard hindustany who is obsessed with him
Well, I dont pay much attention to likes of TTP or LeJ or how many Pakistani citizens they kill but a standard Pakistani is fairly obsessed with them. Isnt he?

until you provide proper evidence of any wrongdoing, he cannot be prosecuted.

Not expecting any prosecution, if you go thru my post.
 
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Indians seem to have a myopic Pakistan centric view on terrorism problem in their country. Terrorism is a very old, indigenous and broad based problem in India. Mahatama gandhi, Indira gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi were not killed by Pakistan sposnsored terrorists. Or Muslim terrorists for that matter. There has been cross border terrorism from India into Sri Lanka, and before that into East Pakistan. Naxal terrorists have nothing to do with Pakistan or Indian Muslims. Uncountable mob attacks on minorities and their places of worships are also not sponsored by Pakistan. It is in India's interest if she develops a true perspective on her terrorism problem.
 
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Indians seem to have a myopic Pakistan centric view on terrorism problem in their country. Terrorism is a very old, indigenous and broad based problem in India. Mahatam gandhi, Indira gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi were not killed by Pakistan sposnsored terrorists. Or Muslim terrorists for that matter. There has been cross border terrorism from India into Sri Lanka, and before that into East Pakistan. Naxal terrorists have nothing to do with Pakistan or Indian Muslims. Uncountable mob attacks on minorities and their places of worships are also not sponsored by Pakistan. It is in India's interest if she develops a true perspective on her terrorism problem.

Yes terror is not new to anyone but Pakistan is considered the epicentre of terror. Not just by India but majority of the world.
:cheers:
 
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In my view given Pakistan's fight against extremism, the likes of Hafiz will increasingly become irrelevant.
 
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Yes terror is not new to anyone but Pakistan is considered the epicentre of terror. Not just by India but majority of the world.
:cheers:

The west has the same interests as India in the context so of course their views will be nearly the same. So this doesn't make a difference.

OTOH, they don't single out Pakistan the way Indians do so you're wrong on that count. In the western media the likes of Fareed Zakaria - an Indian - are the ones doing that. The rest of the media and the western citizens generally group Pakistan with the rest of the middle east.

:cheers:
 
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Indians seem to have a myopic Pakistan centric view on terrorism problem in their country. Terrorism is a very old, indigenous and broad based problem in India. Mahatam gandhi, Indira gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi were not killed by Pakistan sposnsored terrorists. Or Muslim terrorists for that matter. There has been cross border terrorism from India into Sri Lanka, and before that into East Pakistan. Naxal terrorists have nothing to do with Pakistan or Indian Muslims. Uncountable mob attacks on minorities and their places of worships are also not sponsored by Pakistan. It is in India's interest if she develops a true perspective on her terrorism problem.

Odd isnt it, I never think of indian terrorist, even the idea seems funny,,pakistan terrorist their seems to be plenty of, If I think of terrorism in India at all I figure its by muslims.
 
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There may be lot of hidden elements who pursue the agenda of hatred towards India. But it is a minority. The majority, as you say, wants good relations and want to get on with more important issues like economy. I mean, no one in Pakistan today would say that India is the biggest issue for Pakistan. In fact it won't be in the top three.
But then, If there had been progress on issues of dispute, then these elements would have been sidelined long ago. The fact that there has been no real progress on alsomt all outstanding issues has helped their cause.
Look it's not about majority or minority. It's about state policy. Fact is that Dawood Ibrahim is in Karachi. Now why woud you want to do that? It's like India giving asylum to Al Capone. Forget Hafiz Saeed. If you put him behind bars you may face a public debate. But what about Dawood? What charitable work has he ever done? What public scrutiny will be there to eliminate him? How do you expect us to trust your government's instructions when you have such scum protected by the STATE?
 
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Odd isnt it, I never think of indian terrorist, even the idea seems funny,,pakistan terrorist their seems to be plenty of, If I think of terrorism in India at all I figure its by muslims.
Na majority of India muslims are genuinely peace loving. They're busy topping the civil services exams nowadays.
 
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Indians seem to have a myopic Pakistan centric view on terrorism problem in their country. Terrorism is a very old, indigenous and broad based problem in India. Mahatam gandhi, Indira gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi were not killed by Pakistan sposnsored terrorists. Or Muslim terrorists for that matter. There has been cross border terrorism from India into Sri Lanka, and before that into East Pakistan. Naxal terrorists have nothing to do with Pakistan or Indian Muslims. Uncountable mob attacks on minorities and their places of worships are also not sponsored by Pakistan. It is in India's interest if she develops a true perspective on her terrorism problem.
Not really. Your rodeo state establishment deliberately using terror, in Khalistan, Kashmir etc. in their hopes to weaken India. You want to know how we crushed Khalistan insurgency? When Pak ISI was busy formeting trouble in India through Khalistan terror groups, two RAW team CIT X and CIT Y decided to carry out a long term medium intensity bombing campaign in Lahore. They were hitting you again and again to teach you a lesson. This went on until some prince/big guy in UAE (his wife was a pakistani) decided to help broker a deal. The chief of RAW and the chief of ISI (the inimitable Hamid Gul) decided to go for the 'flag meeting' where the RAW chief told him in no uncertain terms that as long as Pakistan kept it's hand in Punjab, we'll continue to give pain. That's when Pak decided to retract it's policies and the bombings miraculously stopped. So who was the provocator? Whose was the rogue establishment?
 
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“We will plant Pakistan’s flag on Delhi’s Red Fort”[/SIZE]Zaid Hamid has rock star status in Pakistan. He is fawned upon, venerated and even worshipped as the messiah who will lead Pakistan from the depths of hell. But music is not his forte. Wild and absurd conspiracy theories, real and imagined wrongs done to Pakistan and the Muslim world, and a rabid dislike nay hatred of all things Indian, American and Jewish are his calling cards.



His ultimate and stated goal: "To plant the flag of Pakistan on the Red Fort in Delhi" and to 'ensure that Pakistan inherits its rightful place at the helm of the Islamic world". Gems like these are strewn across the cyber world.

In TV studios, in public meetings, public blogs on the Web, and more recently in a series of lectures across Pakistan's universities titled "Wake Up Pakistan", quoting poet philosopher Allama Iqbal, Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah and Quranic texts, Hamid is one of a growing band of conspiracy theorists and demagogues in Pakistan. The list includes Farhat Hashmi, Aamir Liaqat, Ahmed Quraishi, Munawar Hussain, among others.

A leit motif of these band of 'broadcast jihadists' is a propensity to outsource the source of Pakistan's deep-set troubles and travails to a combination of Indian perfidy, American ambitions on Muslim lands (and oil), and Jewish designs in neutralising the 'only Muslim nuclear power in the world'. A deep-set feeling of victimhood and a strong desire to rollback and remedy the perceived 'historical wrongs' animate their discourse.

For them, 9/11 attack was a "Jewish conspiracy", 26/11 an "Indian drama" out to defame and defang Pakistan and its security establishment; a psycho war that the enemies have forged to paint Pakistan as 'Terrorism Central" with the ultimate aim of seizing its nuclear weapons and bring the "Islamic Republic" to its knees.



Sample this from Hamid: "(We are facing) persecution and threats at the hands of Zionist system, CIA, RAW, corrupt govt and political parties, terrorists of TTP, BLA and anti Pakistan separatists, sectarian religious extremists and secular liberal fascists!! We are honoured to have such galaxy of Kufr united against us. Alhamdulillah, we are hurting them and we shall live with dignity and die with honour and never betray Ummat-e-Rasul and Pakistan."


Or this from Ahmed Quraishi: "(Indians) forget that they people have by and large been the slaves of Pakistanis' ancestors who ruled the region for almost ten centuries, plus the almost two centuries that they spent under the British. Pakistan is a historical continuation and is no one's gift. But for the sake of argument, there would not be India today if not for the British, who made it possible by ending the reign of Muslim India, or Greater Pakistan. In contrast, Pakistan would still have existed, in some shape or form, as a continuation of a long history."
This is not to argue that conspiracy theorists and the rabid elements do not exist in other countries or societies. They undoubtedly do. The 'lunatic fringe' is no nation's or society's monopoly. But if they do exist, they do in the margins. But in Pakistan, it seems to have gone mainstream. Night in and night out, these evangelists are on TV spewing venom and their peculiar theories, to be lapped up by an increasingly receptive audience.



In fact, some of Pakistan's leading celebrities - Maria B (socialite and fashion designer) and Ali Azmat (lead vocalist of the iconic pop/rock band Junoon) have not only joined Hamid's "movement" but also are known to have underwritten his campaigns with funds. Even Imran Khan, the iconic cricketer but struggling politician, has not been immune to their charms of these conspiracy jihadists - appearing with them on TV shows and letting it be known that he was against the Pakistan army's actions in South Waziristan and instead advocating supping with the devil.
However, more disturbing is that other than the foreign elements, they have chosen to target 'democracy' as an ideal and as a system as one of the reasons for Pakistan's dithering on the verge of chaos. They are loath to make a demarcation between democracy as a tool and its practitioners.

Sample this from a prominent commentator: "Two Pakistani political parties, Mr Zardari's PPP and Mr Sharif's PML-N, both ironically created during the reigns of two different military rulers, are taking the nation for a ride in the name of democracy. Thanks to their non-performance in the past 19 months, Pakistan is staring at a huge national failure, from foreign policy to Gwadar. It is national decline... The worst part about our politicians is not their glaring ineptitude. It is the fact that their parties are so stifled there is no hope the ruling elite will expand its limited pool of talent to include a nation brimming with initiative and yearning for change".

A case of shooting the message as well as the messenger!

A 'pure' Islamic form of government, based on the Shariat, bolstered by the might of the 'magnificent' Pakistan army is touted as the panacea for all evils.



This is not to say that these conspiracy theorists have gone unchallenged. There is still enough courage and spirit in the Pakistan civil society and the media to take on these purveyors of hate and fear.

Human rights activist Asma Jehangir, columnists Ayaz Amir and Nadeem Paracha, among others, are increasingly and strenuously taking them on and pointing out the futility and absurdity of their so-called mission.

Writes Paracha, "TV personalities like Zaid Hamid and Aamir Liaquat, and politicians like Imran Khan and Munawar Hussan, are pegs of this new trend, mixing neo-traditionalist trappings of exhibitionistic piety, dress and claims with political discourses that may sound populist and radical, but in fact they are nothing more than the kind of reactionary and myopic mindset that sections of Pakistan's military establishment started being plagued with during the Afghan jihad under Zia and after. Today (Pakistani) society stands clearly polarised."

Pakistan and its society is once again at the crossroads!
 
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Indians seem to have a myopic Pakistan centric view on terrorism problem in their country. Terrorism is a very old, indigenous and broad based problem in India. Mahatam gandhi, Indira gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi were not killed by Pakistan sposnsored terrorists. Or Muslim terrorists for that matter. There has been cross border terrorism from India into Sri Lanka, and before that into East Pakistan. Naxal terrorists have nothing to do with Pakistan or Indian Muslims. Uncountable mob attacks on minorities and their places of worships are also not sponsored by Pakistan. It is in India's interest if she develops a true perspective on her terrorism problem.

Sorry mate you have very little knowledge ;) According to the indian leadership and their people above respected leaders were killed by I.S.I of Pakistan :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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Over the past 9-10 months on this forum I have read a lot of posts here supporting terrorism.

The sad part is that most people dont even realise that they are supporting terrorism.Be it under the guise of their so called 'SYMPHATHIES' with the Kashmiri awam or be it under their manifestation of India as their perinial enemy, people have drifted way too far and have been giving support to it.

As an Indian , I certainly feel sad and angry when a coward kills unarmed civilians in Mumbai. But I am much more disheartened when people support the perpetrator on the pretext that he supports Kashmiri cause.

Anyways it is good that quite a lot of Pakistani citizens are following people like HS. A lot of people also followed Hitler and loved him until the bitter end. The end for the people who support HS and the likes will be the same fate that Nazis met at nurenberg ( if not worse). I wait for the day when these guys burn in hell and hope that this earth becomes hell for them.

In the context of India and Pakistan I think both have a fair share of hate mongers. But the penetration and success of a few people in Pakistan is so great that people have started to idolise them.

( I have seen how people in Pakistan will ride on scooters and cars in Jalus to support the likes of HS. How they embrace voilent means while feeling proud at the same time. )

If all the world is asking questions of Pakistan today then there is a reason behind it. And the reason in not that Pakistan is a MUSLIM NUCLEAR POWER but that Pakistan is a state where people like HS not only roam freely but are idiolised.

There is so much to write but I think I just want to wish Pakistan all the best with the likes of HS. I pray that people like HS penetrate even deeper in the viens of Pakistan . When the cancer of hatred would have spread beyond control Pakistan will burst on its own. The sad thing is that it might take some time and till then we Indians will have to defend our borders and our homes from the terrorists that are sitting across the border.
 
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I can post a dozen such videos. so :)
How is an organisation that is banned with UN's direction but the man at the helm of such an organisation free to do what he wants.
:cheers:

It is a favoritism at its worst that the biggest organisation of the world only sees Muslims extremists and their speeches not the one noted above and more.

The bans must be across the world done by any Religious zealots and should not be limited to Muslims only.

Be it from Denmark or from Spain or from France or India it must be equally condemned and banned, not just from Muslims alone.

Cupish Dude.
 
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“We will plant Pakistan’s flag on Delhi’s Red Fort”[/SIZE]Zaid Hamid has rock star status in Pakistan. He is fawned upon, venerated and even worshipped as the messiah who will lead Pakistan from the depths of hell. But music is not his forte. Wild and absurd conspiracy theories, real and imagined wrongs done to Pakistan and the Muslim world, and a rabid dislike nay hatred of all things Indian, American and Jewish are his calling cards.



His ultimate and stated goal: "To plant the flag of Pakistan on the Red Fort in Delhi" and to 'ensure that Pakistan inherits its rightful place at the helm of the Islamic world". Gems like these are strewn across the cyber world.

In TV studios, in public meetings, public blogs on the Web, and more recently in a series of lectures across Pakistan's universities titled "Wake Up Pakistan", quoting poet philosopher Allama Iqbal, Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah and Quranic texts, Hamid is one of a growing band of conspiracy theorists and demagogues in Pakistan. The list includes Farhat Hashmi, Aamir Liaqat, Ahmed Quraishi, Munawar Hussain, among others.

A leit motif of these band of 'broadcast jihadists' is a propensity to outsource the source of Pakistan's deep-set troubles and travails to a combination of Indian perfidy, American ambitions on Muslim lands (and oil), and Jewish designs in neutralising the 'only Muslim nuclear power in the world'. A deep-set feeling of victimhood and a strong desire to rollback and remedy the perceived 'historical wrongs' animate their discourse.

For them, 9/11 attack was a "Jewish conspiracy", 26/11 an "Indian drama" out to defame and defang Pakistan and its security establishment; a psycho war that the enemies have forged to paint Pakistan as 'Terrorism Central" with the ultimate aim of seizing its nuclear weapons and bring the "Islamic Republic" to its knees.



Sample this from Hamid: "(We are facing) persecution and threats at the hands of Zionist system, CIA, RAW, corrupt govt and political parties, terrorists of TTP, BLA and anti Pakistan separatists, sectarian religious extremists and secular liberal fascists!! We are honoured to have such galaxy of Kufr united against us. Alhamdulillah, we are hurting them and we shall live with dignity and die with honour and never betray Ummat-e-Rasul and Pakistan."


Or this from Ahmed Quraishi: "(Indians) forget that they people have by and large been the slaves of Pakistanis' ancestors who ruled the region for almost ten centuries, plus the almost two centuries that they spent under the British. Pakistan is a historical continuation and is no one's gift. But for the sake of argument, there would not be India today if not for the British, who made it possible by ending the reign of Muslim India, or Greater Pakistan. In contrast, Pakistan would still have existed, in some shape or form, as a continuation of a long history."
This is not to argue that conspiracy theorists and the rabid elements do not exist in other countries or societies. They undoubtedly do. The 'lunatic fringe' is no nation's or society's monopoly. But if they do exist, they do in the margins. But in Pakistan, it seems to have gone mainstream. Night in and night out, these evangelists are on TV spewing venom and their peculiar theories, to be lapped up by an increasingly receptive audience.



In fact, some of Pakistan's leading celebrities - Maria B (socialite and fashion designer) and Ali Azmat (lead vocalist of the iconic pop/rock band Junoon) have not only joined Hamid's "movement" but also are known to have underwritten his campaigns with funds. Even Imran Khan, the iconic cricketer but struggling politician, has not been immune to their charms of these conspiracy jihadists - appearing with them on TV shows and letting it be known that he was against the Pakistan army's actions in South Waziristan and instead advocating supping with the devil.
However, more disturbing is that other than the foreign elements, they have chosen to target 'democracy' as an ideal and as a system as one of the reasons for Pakistan's dithering on the verge of chaos. They are loath to make a demarcation between democracy as a tool and its practitioners.

Sample this from a prominent commentator: "Two Pakistani political parties, Mr Zardari's PPP and Mr Sharif's PML-N, both ironically created during the reigns of two different military rulers, are taking the nation for a ride in the name of democracy. Thanks to their non-performance in the past 19 months, Pakistan is staring at a huge national failure, from foreign policy to Gwadar. It is national decline... The worst part about our politicians is not their glaring ineptitude. It is the fact that their parties are so stifled there is no hope the ruling elite will expand its limited pool of talent to include a nation brimming with initiative and yearning for change".

A case of shooting the message as well as the messenger!

A 'pure' Islamic form of government, based on the Shariat, bolstered by the might of the 'magnificent' Pakistan army is touted as the panacea for all evils.



This is not to say that these conspiracy theorists have gone unchallenged. There is still enough courage and spirit in the Pakistan civil society and the media to take on these purveyors of hate and fear.

Human rights activist Asma Jehangir, columnists Ayaz Amir and Nadeem Paracha, among others, are increasingly and strenuously taking them on and pointing out the futility and absurdity of their so-called mission.

Writes Paracha, "TV personalities like Zaid Hamid and Aamir Liaquat, and politicians like Imran Khan and Munawar Hussan, are pegs of this new trend, mixing neo-traditionalist trappings of exhibitionistic piety, dress and claims with political discourses that may sound populist and radical, but in fact they are nothing more than the kind of reactionary and myopic mindset that sections of Pakistan's military establishment started being plagued with during the Afghan jihad under Zia and after. Today (Pakistani) society stands clearly polarised."

Pakistan and its society is once again at the crossroads!


Do not make sweeping statement about Crossroads, and read the posts by Pakistanis specially mine about the singling out of Muslims for hate speeches.
 
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