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No Nuclear Limit: China

Lankan Ranger

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No Nuclear Limit: China

Chinese officials have declared that there can be no limit to the expansion of Beijing's nuclear arsenal, amid growing regional fears that it will eventually equal that of the United States, with profound consequences for the strategic balance in Asia.

Records of secret defence consultations between the US and China reveal that US diplomats have repeatedly failed to persuade the rising superpower to be more transparent about its nuclear forces and that Chinese officials privately admit that a desire for military advantage underpins continuing secrecy.

According to US diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks and provided exclusively to The Age, the deputy chief of China's People's Liberation Army General Staff, Ma Xiaotian, told US Defence and State Department officials in June 2008 that the growth of China's nuclear forces was an ''imperative reality'' and there could be "no limit on technical progress''.

Rejecting American calls for China to reveal the size of its nuclear capabilities, Lieutenant-General Ma bluntly declared: ''It is impossible for [China] to change its decades-old way of doing business to become transparent using the US model.''

While claiming in a further July 2009 discussion that Beijing's nuclear posture has "always been defensive'' and that China would "never enter into a nuclear arms race", General Ma acknowledged that, "frankly speaking, there are areas of China's nuclear program that are not very transparent''.

China's assistant foreign minister He Yafei similarly told US officials in June 2008 that there will be an ''inevitable and natural extension'' of Chinese military power and that China ''cannot accept others setting limits on our capabilities''.

Other leaked US cables reveal Japan fears China's nuclear arsenal will grow to equal that of the US, and Tokyo has urged Washington to retain strong nuclear capabilities to deter an "increasingly bold" China from ''doing something stupid".

In top-level nuclear policy consultations in June 2009, senior Japanese Defence Ministry officials told US representatives that Tokyo's assessment was that "China is rapidly upgrading its nuclear capability beyond its relatively insignificant levels from the 1980s and the 1990s, and is trying to reach parity with Russia and the US''.

"China is displaying newfound confidence in its military capabilities and is visibly showing its strength in the region, particularly with respect to the [Japanese] Senkakus [island group],'' Japan-US Defence Co-operation director Kiyoshi Serizawa told US diplomats.

A senior Japanese Foreign Ministry official also warned that China's "troubling" nuclear build-up had to be viewed in the context of its other activities, including its 2007 anti-satellite test, cyber-attacks and growing naval capabilities.

"If China perceives the United States having difficulty accessing the region, it is more likely to do something stupid,'' said Japan-US Security Treaty Division senior co-ordinator Yusuke Arai.

In a separate discussion with US envoys, Japanese Defence Ministry officials expressed concern the Obama administration's plan to negotiate a cut in nuclear forces with Russia would encourage China's nuclear build-up. A senior Japanese official said that while China had declared a ''no first-use'' nuclear weapons posture, "no nuclear expert believes this is true''.

US and Japanese officials agreed that the opaque nature of China's nuclear build-up was troubling, and the Japanese stressed that close co-ordination was "critical" before any US decisions on "deep cuts" in nuclear weapons talks with Russia.

But after the release of the Obama administration's Nuclear Posture Review in early 2010, the US and Russia signed a new Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty on April 8 to halve their nuclear arsenals to 1550 strategic weapons over the next seven years.

The International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates China has up to 90 intercontinental ballistic missiles (66 land-based and 24 submarine-launched) and more than 400 intermediate range missiles targeting Taiwan and Japan. The US intelligence community predicts that by the mid-2020s, China could double the number of warheads on missiles capable of threatening the US.

No nuclear limit: China
 
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Although their estimate for China's nuclear arsenal is totally bogus, they are damn right. Who would leave the opportunity to be decimated by other?
 
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Well I did the math again.

1. There are 6 094 SSBN carry JL-2A=========> 6*12*6=360.

2. There are at least 60 DF-31A============> 60*3=180.

3. There are maybe 20 DF-41A=============> 20*5=100.

4. There are at least 40 H-6 bombers=========> 40*4=160.

5. There are about 500 DF-21A=============> 500*1=500.

500+160+100+180+360=1300 nukes. So around 1000 nukes for now and might go up to 2000 by 2020.

China had nukes in 1960's and is under Soviet threat!! Remember!

Right now it is threaten by USA, India, Russia, and even Japan.
 
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Well I did the math again.

1. There are 6 094 SSBN carry JL-2A=========> 6*12*6=360.

2. There are at least 60 DF-31A============> 60*3=180.

3. There are maybe 20 DF-41A=============> 20*5=100.

4. There are at least 40 H-6 bombers=========> 40*4=160.

5. There are about 500 DF-21A=============> 500*1=500.

500+160+100+180+360=1300 nukes. So around 1000 nukes for now and might go up to 2000 by 2020.

China had nukes in 1960's and is under Soviet threat!! Remember!

Right now it is threaten by USA, India, Russia, and even Japan.

Right now, China likely possesses over 3000 nukes. But we will need no less than 5000 by year 2020, because NMD would likely be ready.
 
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Can you prove it?

I did the minmum math.

Could you back it up with souce or at least a reasonable analyisis?

Thank you.

Your estimates are a bit high, maybe 1000 warheads.

The 3000 takes into account unassembled warheads and missiles in storage.

You also forgot the DF-5, of which there are 20x 3.5 megaton warheads.

Japan says we "might do something stupid". I disagree. Japan has been behaving like a child for the past 20 years, visiting the shrine of criminals and mass murderers. Maybe its their AV culture, being colonized by the white man, all the while their median age is 47, the highest in the world.
 
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Can you prove it?

I did the minmum math.

Could you back it up with souce or at least a reasonable analyisis?

Thank you.

Some guys from CD forum have some inside information.

Back in year 1996, there was Hong Kong magazine revealed that PLA's second artillery already possessed 2350 nukes. The number matches what the CD guys give.

Anyway, the sources from Western Intelligence can be viewed as credible as Wikipedia that provides some quick information, but they were never reliable regarding to PLA.
 
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Your estimates are a bit high, maybe 1000 warheads.

The 3000 takes into account unassembled warheads and missiles in storage.

You also forgot the DF-5, of which there are 20x 3.5 megaton warheads.

Japan says we "might do something stupid". I disagree. Japan has been behaving like a child for the past 20 years, visiting the shrine of criminals and mass murderers. Maybe its their AV culture, being colonized by the white man, all the while their median age is 47, the highest in the world.

No need to attack Japan with DF-5A or DF-31A, these are reserved for Uncle Sam, DF-21 can have the job done.
 
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No need to attack Japan with DF-5A or DF-31A, these are reserved for Uncle Sam, DF-21 can have the job done.

20x DF-5 alone can turn 50 million western whites and their house slaves into radioactive smoke. Wall Street regime's missile defense is poor quality right now but may be upgraded in the future. Need more DF-31 to defeat their defense system.
 
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20x DF-5 alone can turn 50 million western whites and their house slaves into radioactive smoke. Wall Street regime's missile defense is poor quality right now but may be upgraded in the future. Need more DF-31 to defeat their defense system.

Then DF-41 and JL-2A should give US soil a final blow.

According to some CDers, PLA can blow out the supervolcano located in Yellowstone park with bunker penetratable nukes. This alone can cause the ultimate destruction on Earth, so no one would be crazy enough to stir up a nuke war against China.
 
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China currently has 400 warheads, not 1000
 
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Then DF-41 and JL-2A should give US soil a final blow.

According to some CDers, PLA can blow out the supervolcano located in Yellowstone park with bunker penetratable nukes. This alone can cause the ultimate destruction on Earth, so no one would be crazy enough to stir up a nuke war against China.

Those supervolcanoes are just north of the province I live in.

*gulp
 
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