No it Isn't Imran Khan!!!

[Norwegian]

Oh really? Then how come the only parties protesting are PTI and PAT? Even IK doesn't dispute that NS won, he just disputes how much NS won by.

PTI is protesting since its mandate was stolen by pre-poll and post-poll rigging, work of RO's and former SC. Of course IK disputes that NS won. Why else would he demand his resignation.

You can continue to live in ignorance, it doesn't bother me any. You disagreeing with facts doesn't change anything.

Fact is that CM and PM are still on the throne despite Lahore and Islamabad massacres. Democratic governments don't do that.

 

[Norwegian]

The overthrowing of an elected government seems pretty facist to me.

Even if its elected through rigging? OK.

Rigging demands audit and recount where needed, and if it's really bad and completely altered the result (which is not true), then a re-election is in order. But, since the rigging is not to the extent where the result would change much, and the fact that stability in Pakistan is non-existent and that we are in a state of war, it is NOT the best time to be throwing out elected representatives by force.

Typical Nooni "logic". First you have no proof to claim at what extent rigging happened. All constituencies and polling stations that have been investigated found massive rigging. And yet people were calling these elections free and fair? Why?
Also Pakistan being in a state of war means cancellation of justice and theft of people's mandate allowed? Any idea what Churchill was worried most about while they were being bombed by German Nazis? He was only worried if UK's justice system was working as its should, despite the greatest war in human history. LOL.

PMLN got a clear mandate, rigging or no rigging.

Proof of free and fair elections, when massive rigging has been found in every constituency that has been opened till now.

Best course of action is to press ECP reforms, and follow up on rigging allegations wherever they apply.

You mean reopen all constituencies as rigging was found in all those that have been opened so far? Good. It invalidates entire election. LOL.

If this is the methodology for Naya Pakistan, then no thanks, I'm happy with my old and beaten Pakistan.

Be happy, soon we won't have any reserves to finance our massive debt taken by your beloved Nooras.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Even if its elected through rigging? OK.

You just don't get it do you? Rigging happened, yes I get it. PMLN, PPP, and others stole seats that weren't their's. Something should be done about. I agree up till there.

Now what should be done, throw a government that did get a clear mandate, rigging or no rigging out to soothe the egos of PTI boys and IK alike?

YOU LOST THE ELECTION!

There... I said it, and I know you don't like hearing it. Many PTI-boys have not come to realise or admit to this fact. You lost by a very large margin. Even PPP got more seats than you. Okay, so if you count a few seats as 100% rigged and false, then you adjust what, maybe 5 seats at best in your favour. Even if you got 10 more seats, which won't happen. You can't get power, and you don't have the right to demand power by having only 17% of the vote share and some 30-odd seats.

That is what your beloved confused leader is doing, he's not only going after rigging, he is also going after the clear mandate of PMLN. We've never had a free and fair election in this country and everyone either screwed or got screwed over. So, push for change, demand ECP reform, push the judicial system.

This whole concert drama, and hooliganism and teaming up with TuQ. It's nonsense. You're doing nothing for the country.
This government won't step down over a few seats, army will back the government, meanwhile IK is bleeding his support base.

Typical Nooni "logic".

Don't give me that.

You have any bloody idea who I support, quote me one damn time in this entire forum, where I've said I support PML.

Go on...

I was a PTI supporter, I contributed to PTI's cause, out of my own time and money. Don't be so quick to label people just because you don't like hearing what they have to say.

First you have no proof to claim at what extent rigging happened.

I know, I don't.

But the burden of proof is upon YOU!
You accuse of rigging, you are suggesting that the rigging is widespread enough to throw the incumbent government out, YOUR claim, you prove it. Not me, you.

All constituencies and polling stations that have been investigated found massive rigging. And yet people were calling these elections free and fair? Why?

Where the hell did I call it free and fair. Again, quote me.
Don't BS back, quote me, okay?

Also Pakistan being in a state of war means cancellation of justice and theft of people's mandate allowed? Any idea what Churchill was worried most about while they were being bombed by German Nazis? He was only worried if UK's justice system was working as its should, despite the greatest war in human history. LOL.

Even Britain during WWII had a more stable system than we do. Don't compare Britain to Pakistan in that sense. And yes we are in a state of war, Pakistan's political stability has been in question since 2007 emergency. And has only gotten worse since.

The army understands this and it also understands all that I have said. It also now understands in a time like this where in the Arab world, a government overthrow is followed by civil war.... that now is not the time to be overthrowing governments by force, especially if the results indicate that 33% of the electorate voted them in. They've also had a chance to observe the convergence of TuQ's hooligans and PTI's supporters. And their stance is clear now, and it's a damning stance may I add.

You mean reopen all constituencies as rigging was found in all those that have been opened so far? Good. It invalidates entire election. LOL.

Follow up on them, gather evidence, present the evidence, if it is found sufficient and relevant, then press for a recount. Nowhere does that include clogging up Islamabad, tearing up the streets, beating policeman, busting up PTV hq, and calling for the entire government to step down.

Be happy, soon we won't have any reserves to finance our massive debt taken by your beloved Nooras.

Yes, I know. If IK and TuQ succeed in their will to ruin the democratic system in Pakistan, we will never have any sort of stability in this country again, then a revolution will be in order. And until then, keep letting the KSE take a dive every time IK says something stupid, keep letting investors keep far from you because they don't wan't to throw their money at a place that won't yield results due to politics.

 

[jha]

I have not doubt about Imran's sincerity. But I still wouldn't compare IK with Mussolini. Please watch 'Bennitto' (sp?) starring Antonio Banderas and see Mussolini's struggles. He was a towering intellectual COMPARED with IK, he worked hard, and he suffered a lot. IK, on the other hand, has had a life of so much easy, immunity and protection that IK has never grown politically mature enough. IK is a dwarf in every sense except physical height when compared with Mussolini.

His mistake was siding with Hitler's lost cause.

Exactly... Fascism is now considered as evil. Back then it was probably looked as a nationalist ( or, ultra nationalist ) form of governance. Musolini's biggest folly was to align with Nazis.

 

[Green Arrow]

No matter what, we should stick to our democratic process. Derailing the democratic process will have serious consequences.

 

[That Guy]

PTI is protesting since its mandate was stolen by pre-poll and post-poll rigging, work of RO's and former SC. Of course IK disputes that NS won. Why else would he demand his resignation.

Fact is that CM and PM are still on the throne despite Lahore and Islamabad massacres. Democratic governments don't do that.

I'm not going to repeat myself, if you're not willing to read my comments and pretend my points don't exist, then that's your problem. I've had enough of this conversation.

You feel attacked for other reasons. Its a feeling of lying to yourself about how the situation where I live affects you. How could any of that translate in me being self centered? I hope I was not disagreeing to all sorts of intelligent people like Ishaq Dar not being part of PMLN. Someone who tells us to celebrate when we receive an IMF loan. Its funny after the "Kashkol toor du" speech by his boss. Just because some people support PMLN does not translate to them being smart or vice versa. Everyone has an angle, direct personal benefit and loss is one way people choose who to support.

If you had read any of my previous posts you wouldn't have come to this conclusion that I am being bitter. I have lived in this country for close to 6 years and you explaining me whats true and how the world works is mind numbing and extremely shortsighted of you. You have no idea what I do and interestingly how I have to do them. I thrive in a little bit of anarchy and what direction this country and economy has taken has scared even the hardened of us. Either way not that I am here to convince you because lord knows its not important at all to have intelligent people overseas giving us directions on waiting for a corrupt system to painfully disappear with large amounts of time magically. We have to find avenues to fix things with hard work in as little amount of time as possible. Sitting around and screaming "Allah challa raha hai" chants are the main reasons the most evil of us have been successful in taking over positions of power, and now they are transferring those to their children. If those children make it to the seat then the children living in this country have no future. I forgot to say long story short.

I know I've been attacked, because you attacked me personally. If you continue this sort of personal attacks, and assuming false things about me, I can and will ignore your posts and go straight to administration. You are a TT, you are supposed to be above such things. Your entire comment is childish.

You call me short sighted, and ignore my points, you practically call me a foreigner, and yet you don't show me how that makes my points wrong. Instead, you've gone ahead and attacked me because I don't live in Pakistan primarily (I do have property in Pakistan, and I always try and go back to Pakistan for a few months every year). You think what happens in Pakistan doesn't affect me? Yeah, tell that to my family that still live in Pakistan.

<MOD EDIT>

I'm done with you. If you want to act like a child, then that's your problem.

 

[TankMan]

This comparison with Mussolini is wrong. What about the part where Mussolini had armed fighters terrorise his opponents? What about the rest of the Political scenario? What about the huge difference in ideology and mindset? Imran Khan's political views and Mussolini's views are worlds apart. I could fill a book with differences between the two.
A few similarities don't mean they're the same.
Using the way the article selectively mentions and twists the facts, I could make a Samosa look like an Apple.

 

[khawaja07]

People here are alot happy accepting this rigged electoral system..they just want consistency, like there wasn't any since 2008 when this so called democracy started..any good turns that Pakistan took? some saying like "Oh Even if those elections were rigged to the core, but PM IS PM no matter what even if he got here through only rigging".. you basically want this process to continue..if there wont be a revolution to change this corrupt electoral system now then you can kiss Pakistan's electoral legitamacy goodbye! same thing is gonna happen in every election over and over again..only way to do clean elections is a changed electoral system and also atleast a single army guy should be in each voting booth to keep an eye on for any inconsistencies that could happen..

People like these are part of the problem in Pakistan.. certainy not part of the solution.. they like to condemn things alot but dont give any legit solutions to the whole saga..a PM who can openly lie in the parliament for his own purpose and the parliament accepting it is a clear sign not only the PM is the bad guy here but also the parliament vehemently taking sides so that in the next elections the present party in govt. will take their side when it comes to seats and support..what a damn shame...did you ever saw any parliament member give any possible solution to the problem? do you see any opposition party in the parliament!? all i see are all parties merged together in one single party..

How in the hell, is the system gonna correct itself when there is no real opposition in time of need? all parties want to keep this system going.

Shame on people who want this topi drama to continue and dont know abc of democracy.

 

[Meengla]

This comparison with Mussolini is wrong. What about the part where Mussolini had armed fighters terrorise his opponents? What about the rest of the Political scenario? What about the huge difference in ideology and mindset? Imran Khan's political views and Mussolini's views are worlds apart. I could fill a book with differences between the two.
A few similarities don't mean they're the same.
Using the way the article selectively mentions and twists the facts, I could make a Samosa look like an Apple.

I agree, a few similarities don't mean they are same. As I said, Mussolini was a towering historic figure compared with Prince Imran Khan. Today, Imran Khan's goons attack Geo (and there is a pretty respectable member here who is actually condoning that). Imran Khan talks about 'democracy' but expels his own party's President who is still waiting for a 'Show Cause' notice. Imran Khan calls TuQ his 'cousin'. Embraces him in public a day before TuQ (and PTI?) members attack state institutions and then Imran Khan's SQM tries to, feebly, distance PTI from the attacks.

The Fascists in Italy up to Italy's involvement in WW2 were heroes and reformers of their society. They worked hard against state repression and rose up from the bottom. I had suggested you watch 'Benito' (Antonio Banderas) to see how real political workers work--right or wrong ideology. Mussolini worked hard for his 'cause'. But IK will be remembered as a lazy, frat-boy with a playboy background, unchallenged all his life, and protected, then a 'born again faithful', coming up with ideas of 'revolutions' while studying GQ Magazine all his life--only to bring down the nascent Pakistani democracy... Imran is not even going to have the few years of honeymoon that Mussolini gave to the Italians. You can count on that.

 

[asq]

View attachment 62030

Naya Italy.

This type what you mentioned can't happen in this century, and in Pakistan, Pakistan has suffered a lot from these king types and Imran kahn has spelled his agenda many times for those who want to see the facts, unlike those who like this status-quo and want tho keep the control on dying middle class and lower class which is always living in dirt poor conditions.

Imran Khan has set examples after examples in KPK by fixing the non fixable by those lords.talking about police and Patwaris, who are part of Mafia and use their power to rob poor people of their lands and homes.

 

[TankMan]

I agree, a few similarities don't mean they are same. As I said, Mussolini was a towering historic figure compared with Prince Imran Khan. Today, Imran Khan's goons attack Geo (and there is a pretty respectable member here who is actually condoning that). Imran Khan talks about 'democracy' but expels his own party's President who is still waiting for a 'Show Cause' notice. Imran Khan calls TuQ his 'cousin'. Embraces him in public a day before TuQ (and PTI?) members attack state institutions and then Imran Khan's SQM tries to, feebly, distance PTI from the attacks.

The Fascists in Italy up to Italy's involvement in WW2 were heroes and reformers of their society. They worked hard against state repression and rose up from the bottom. I had suggested you watch 'Benito' (Antonio Banderas) to see how real political workers work--right or wrong ideology. Mussolini worked hard for his 'cause'. But IK will be remembered as a lazy, frat-boy with a playboy background, unchallenged all his life, and protected, then a 'born again faithful', coming up with ideas of 'revolutions' while studying GQ Magazine all his life--only to bring down the nascent Pakistani democracy... Imran is not even going to have the few years of honeymoon that Mussolini gave to the Italians. You can count on that.

Today, Imran Khan's goons attack Geo (and there is a pretty respectable member here who is actually condoning that).

Imran Khan disagrees with what his people did, as do I.

Imran Khan talks about 'democracy' but expels his own party's President who is still waiting for a 'Show Cause' notice.

Its politics. Javed Hashmi made it pretty clear that he no longer supported PTI.

attack state institutions

The 'attack' was a result of the chaos caused by police shelling and protesters' misconduct, it was more like angry people running around haphazardly because they didn't know what to do. If you want to see a real attack on state institutions, watch this: PMLN Nawaz Sharif attack on Supreme Court | Tune.pk

But IK will be remembered as a lazy, frat-boy with a playboy background, unchallenged all his life, and protected, then a 'born again faithful', coming up with ideas of 'revolutions' while studying GQ Magazine all his life--only to bring down the nascent Pakistani democracy

Now this is deplorable mentality. People who talk like that are usually the ones who do nothing at all, and call people who are actually working "lazy frat-boys". I don't care what your political beliefs are but I strongly condemn the idea of judging a person who is doing something for the country, just because he used to be a bit on the modern side. Imran Khan is fighting for what he believes to be right. He isn't just trying to bring down the 'nascent' "democracy". His cause is noble, though his methods are objectionable.
He had money, education and fame, If he wanted to he could have lived in the west and enjoy life but instead he decided to work for his country. That is worth appreciating, even if you disagree with his views or methods.

The Fascists in Italy up to Italy's involvement in WW2 were heroes and reformers of their society.

Many, many people would disagree with that.

They worked hard against state repression and rose up from the bottom.

They also used a lot of illegal and violent methods to aid their rise.

 

[Meengla]

[quote="TankMan, post: 6200389, member: 161069]His cause is noble, though his methods are objectionable..[/quote]

Good. At least we got that out of you!

You can't just say 'his methods are objectionable' and move on. As they say, the Devil is in the details! And those details matter and that's why I and several others here and outside the forum have been writing about.

 

[xyxmt]

The comparison sounds chilling, but is superficial at best. While I do think that these protests are foolish and are doing more harm than good, I've said this before, I have no doubt in my mind that IK really does have Pakistan's best intentions at heart, even if he is bitter about losing the last elections.

I dont think anyone is going to argue that, but its a "Nadan dost V/S dana dushman choice"
what do you choose, not easy

 

[TankMan]

[quote="TankMan, post: 6200389, member: 161069]His cause is noble, though his methods are objectionable..

Good. At least we got that out of you!

You can't just say 'his methods are objectionable' and move on. As they say, the Devil is in the details! And those details matter and that's why I and several others here and outside the forum have been writing about.

Great, pick one sentence and disregard the rest of the post. Context matters a lot.
Which details are you talking about?

You can't just say 'his methods are objectionable' and move on.

Why not? Some might disagree with protests and long march but that's just how Pakistani politics work. Do you think PMLN would have let any investigation take place without such action? I am glad that Imran Khan raised his voice and took instead of begging courts and tribunals. What I disagree with is his 'all or nothing' strategy, going for the PM's resignation.

Anyways, until Pakistan gets a better leader, I'm either with Imran Khan or with no one.

 

[flameboard]

and Hitler loved animals and fought for animal rights. He was good at giving speeches and gaining the support o his people. Based off of this we should afraid of anyone that cares about animal rights and is influential because they are just like Hitler. This makes no sense and neither does the article in the news paper it's not factual. Just comparing...


My aim is not to support or bash Imran Khan; I'm just making a formal request to you to use your brain.