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no invention from India in 60 years: n. r. narayana murthy

@jamahir we are socially primitive both India and Pakistan, a society where kids are wired to get education just for earning and job. Just starting pouring money into the institutions right now will do any good?

agreed.

No. You gotta re-wire the whole system, giving space to the young minds which most of your generation isn't ready for.

but do most of the young minds protest against their families or the system?? no, they meekly follow the herd... look at the urgency of the young ones in preparing for exams through out the year. :-)

in re-wiring of the system, the youth must participate, after throwing away the old stuff... they must bring in themselves the fanaticism to contribute to humanity rather than plod along the well-trodden path.

Even with solid planning and smooth execution starting right now, it'll take time.

revolutions can change societies within a week... but people, especially the youth, must have it in them to bring revolution.

Oh wait you're missing somethin', you need prosperity first to do something like this.

india and pakistan have enough money to become huge armaments importers just so that they can threaten each other. :-)

couldn't there have been a joint human space program funded by that money?? colonel yuri gagarin went to space 54 years ago... what the ussr did then, south asians cannot do even now... surely something must be wrong in our approach to life. :(
 
I will add one more point, yours..more social awareness is necessary. Let's not take it to Socialism yet. USA did perfectly fine during the cold-war era. R&D has got nothing to do with any kind of -ism..

true... to invent or discover, one must simply do it for the joy of doing it... the surrounding system must take care of it, whether by funds, whether by providing resources... south asia lacks the sense in providing both. :(
 
@Nihonjin1051 your views on the discussion.

TLDR How best to promote innovation among Indians? Right now our universities and students are focused towards industry for employment and financial security. Research in India outside Govt sector is not a very feasible option which discourages innovation.

Some of us are of view that research does not require lot of money and innovation can be cheaply attained if government supports private research. While others think focus of government is towards providing basic needs of people right now and as India develops further and basics needs are met, after a generation even India will start producing world changing innovation and inventions.

What can we learn from Japan? As i understand even Japan went from such a stage where primarily they were in production then they focused on efficiency and later innovation
 

jamahir other members are putting up good discussion . I would comment as a layman. See you have mentioned that India has created about 2 million graduates now just imagine how can you expect inventions or even innovation from such a big crop or even half or one third of these graduates? because it seems as the trend in our region is these numbers show that they are following the trend to get good jobs.

So when the aim is mainly getting a good job then inventions are not the target.

If you send scores of good professionals from among these graduates, abroad where they get all facilities and are also satisfied with the money they are getting, you will see they can come up with more innovative things.
 
@jamahir @Spectre
I really don't get the idea of asking non-Indians what's wrong with innovation in India. They may be observers but we have first hand experience.

We all have done our schooling, graduation, post-graduation etc.No disrespect to them, but from our experience, we should be able to tell what's wrong.
 
- jamahir's foreword - questions to be answered by india's old middle-class, the new middle-class and the neo-rich to be found in bangalore, poona, gurgaon and hyderabad...

and narayanmurthy's statement are ironic considering his own army of computer engineers haven't given the world any radical new microprocessor, operating system or computer.

south asia ( especially pakistan and india ) as a whole is a region whose seven decades have seen no technological or political contribution to the world.

----------------

No invention, earth shaking idea from India in 60 years: NR Narayana Murthy
By PTI | 15 Jul, 2015, 05.55PM IST

no-invention-earth-shaking-idea-from-india-in-60-years-nr-narayana-murthy.jpg


"Our youngsters have not done much impactful research work despite being equal to their counterparts in intellect and energy in Western universities," he said.BENGALURU: There has not been a single invention from India in the last 60 years that became a household name globally, nor any idea that led to "earth shaking" invention to "delight global citizens", IT czar N R Narayana Murthy said today.

"Our youngsters have not done much impactful research work despite being equal to their counterparts in intellect and energy in Western universities," he said delivering the convocation address at the Indian Institute of Science here.

Listing out 10 major inventions that Massachusets Institute of Technology has created in the last 50 years that includes Global Positioning System, Bionic Prostheses and Microchip, Murthy said these happened because students and faculty at MIT "walked the untrodden path, asked the unasked questions and used their intellectual prowess to take huge leaps".

"They demonstrated unusual courage to achieve the plausibly-impossible. The story is similar at many other western institutions of higher education," he said.

He said almost all inventions such as cars, electric bulb, radio, television, computers, Internet, wifi, MRI, laser, robots and many other gadgets and technology happened, "thanks to the research by Western Universities".

He added: "On the other hand, let us pause and ask what the contributions of Indian institutions of higher learning, particularly IISc ans IITs, have been over the last sixty-plus years to make our society and the world a better place?

"Is there one invention from India that has become a household name in the globe? Is there one technology that has transformed the productivity of global corporations? Is there one idea that has lead to an earth shaking invention to delight global citizens?"

Co-founder of the country's major IT firm Infosys said: "Folks, the reality is that there is no such contribution from India in the last 60. The only two ideas that have transformed the productivity of global corporations -- The Global Delivery Model and the 24-hours workday came from the company called Infosys."

----------------
- jamahir's afterword : all colleges in india ( except the medical, films, music, fashion and architectural ones ) must be shut down as these are fit only to produce mindless drones who can only do jobs and create nothing.

in the last 13 to 14 years, the computer college courses in india, whether bachelor level, whether phd level, have produced at least 2 million "graduates"... what have they given to the world... in the last three years, some universities like "lovely professional university, jalandhar" even have "space courses"... does the gentle reader think these institutes are really worth the respect the width of a molecule??

once these colleges are shut-down and the government provides survival money to people instead of wasting money on armaments, creative people will find freedom to take the flights of fancy and innovate, create, design, contribute.

narayanmurthy has put a important point.

----------------


@levina @thesolar65 @jbgt90 @IrbiS @WAJsal @The_Showstopper @haviZsultan @bongbang @BDforever @hinduguy
Yeah right!!!
No new invention from India in last 60years but we managed to reach Mars and find water on moon.

We were a fledgling country 60yrs back and had to start from scratch, whatever we had inherited had been erased/modified/claimed by our colonial era masters- the Britishers.
There's a saying
"One is known by what he does in his present and not his past"...


*****
Ahem I changed something. :angel:
 
@jamahir @Spectre
I really don't get the idea of asking non-Indians what's wrong with innovation in India. They may be observers but we have first hand experience.

We all have done our schooling, graduation, post-graduation etc.No disrespect to them, but from our experience, we should be able to tell what's wrong.

No, I just referred him because Japan went through a similar stage after WW2, their whole country was in ruins and still they rose much faster. May be it was due to US influence may be because of Japanese spirit or may be something else, I don't know.

I would useful to compare where our paths diverged. Initially you must be aware Japan was also not much in innovation and their students were famous for rote learning but now they are renowned for the opposite.
 
- jamahir's foreword - questions to be answered by india's old middle-class, the new middle-class and the neo-rich to be found in bangalore, poona, gurgaon and hyderabad...

and narayanmurthy's statement are ironic considering his own army of computer engineers haven't given the world any radical new microprocessor, operating system or computer.

south asia ( especially pakistan and india ) as a whole is a region whose seven decades have seen no technological or political contribution to the world.

----------------

No invention, earth shaking idea from India in 60 years: NR Narayana Murthy
By PTI | 15 Jul, 2015, 05.55PM IST

no-invention-earth-shaking-idea-from-india-in-60-years-nr-narayana-murthy.jpg


"Our youngsters have not done much impactful research work despite being equal to their counterparts in intellect and energy in Western universities," he said.BENGALURU: There has not been a single invention from India in the last 60 years that became a household name globally, nor any idea that led to "earth shaking" invention to "delight global citizens", IT czar N R Narayana Murthy said today.

"Our youngsters have not done much impactful research work despite being equal to their counterparts in intellect and energy in Western universities," he said delivering the convocation address at the Indian Institute of Science here.

Listing out 10 major inventions that Massachusets Institute of Technology has created in the last 50 years that includes Global Positioning System, Bionic Prostheses and Microchip, Murthy said these happened because students and faculty at MIT "walked the untrodden path, asked the unasked questions and used their intellectual prowess to take huge leaps".

"They demonstrated unusual courage to achieve the plausibly-impossible. The story is similar at many other western institutions of higher education," he said.

He said almost all inventions such as cars, electric bulb, radio, television, computers, Internet, wifi, MRI, laser, robots and many other gadgets and technology happened, "thanks to the research by Western Universities".

He added: "On the other hand, let us pause and ask what the contributions of Indian institutions of higher learning, particularly IISc ans IITs, have been over the last sixty-plus years to make our society and the world a better place?

"Is there one invention from India that has become a household name in the globe? Is there one technology that has transformed the productivity of global corporations? Is there one idea that has lead to an earth shaking invention to delight global citizens?"

Co-founder of the country's major IT firm Infosys said: "Folks, the reality is that there is no such contribution from India in the last 60. The only two ideas that have transformed the productivity of global corporations -- The Global Delivery Model and the 24-hours workday came from the company called Infosys."

----------------
- jamahir's afterword : all colleges in india ( except the medical, films, music, fashion and architectural ones ) must be shut down as these are fit only to produce mindless drones who can only do jobs and create nothing.

in the last 13 to 14 years, the computer college courses in india, whether bachelor level, whether phd level, have produced at least 2 million "graduates"... what have they given to the world... in the last three years, some universities like "lovely professional university, jalandhar" even have "space courses"... does the gentle reader think these institutes are really worth the respect the width of a molecule??

once these colleges are shut-down and the government provides survival money to people instead of wasting money on armaments, creative people will find freedom to take the flights of fancy and innovate, create, design, contribute.

narayanmurthy has put a important point.

----------------


@levina @thesolar65 @jbgt90 @IrbiS @WAJsal @The_Showstopper @haviZsultan @bongbang @BDforever @hinduguy
this is not what india needs to worry about now.there are bigger problems... once your poverty is down and education is higher, you will have many inventions.
 
agreed.



but do most of the young minds protest against their families or the system?? no, they meekly follow the herd... look at the urgency of the young ones in preparing for exams through out the year. :-)

in re-wiring of the system, the youth must participate, after throwing away the old stuff... they must bring in themselves the fanaticism to contribute to humanity rather than plod along the well-trodden path.



revolutions can change societies within a week... but people, especially the youth, must have it in them to bring revolution.


It takes two to tango. It's the kind of revolt which requires both young gen. and your gen. too to act together as your gen. got monopoly and most of the bunch aren't willing to change anything.


india and pakistan have enough money to become huge armaments importers just so that they can threaten each other. :-)

couldn't there have been a joint human space program funded by that money?? colonel yuri gagarin went to space 54 years ago... what the ussr did then, south asians cannot do even now... surely something must be wrong in our approach to life. :(


It needs full belly to think that calmly
 
j
jamahir other members are putting up good discussion .

agreed... among few times when a thread has not degenerated into a battle of ultra-nationalism and egos. :D

j
See you have mentioned that India has created about 2 million graduates

just in the computer sciences field, in the last 13 or 14 years.

j
now just imagine how can you expect inventions or even innovation from such a big crop or even half or one third of these graduates? because it seems as the trend in our region is these numbers show that they are following the trend to get good jobs.

So when the aim is mainly getting a good job then inventions are not the target.

agreed... people either want or have made themselves used to living on salaries, month to month, 10 am to 6 pm... life long... and to prepare for this, they spend their years in colleges preparing for exams, as you said to get a good job.

they neither have the energy nor the courage nor the inclination to invent and discover, just for the joy of it.

:(

j
If you send scores of good professionals from among these graduates, abroad where they get all facilities and are also satisfied with the money they are getting, you will see they can come up with more innovative things.

the facilities are all right here in india... below is "lovely professional university", a 600 acre campus in the punjab city of jalandhar... it is one the biggest university campuses in the world...

635138116006678676_Lovely%20Professional%20University%20%28LPU%29.jpg


Lovely%20Professional%20University%20Jalandhar.jpg.jpg


university-3_660_051813125743.jpg


lovely1.jpg


and they have invented nothing, discovered nothing... they are simply another jobnik production factory. :-)
 
Last edited:
Yeah right!!!
No new invention from India in last 60years but we managed to reach Mars and find water on moon.

We were a fledgling country 60yrs back and had to start from scratch, whatever we had inherited had been erased/modified/claimed by our colonial era masters- the Britishers.
There's a saying
"One is known by what he does in his present and not his past"...


*****
Ahem I changed something. :angel:

Prima Facie I agree with the points Mr. Murty and Jamahir are making. There has been plenty of Jugaad as we say in India but no true invention which has world changing effects. The capability is there but something is lacking.

There were plenty of countries which were at the same state or even worse than that of India like China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea etc so this argument of we starting from scratch holds no water with me. We can analyze where we went wrong, have corrected our mistakes as of yet, if not what corrective actions should be taken
 
Good Afternoon Folks,



First of all I would like to thank @jamahir yet again for starting a very interesting and thought provoking discussion platform – the innovation within India. As far as I know there are definitely areas of improvement in the Indian Educational System and one has also to take into context the role of government subsidized educational scholarships that are needed to bring opportunity for millions of would-be Indian talented youth to their true academic potential.

Before I begin I would like to say first that India is quite a large and truly diverse national entity and there I a wide variety of technology, industries throughout the regions in India. Let me say that India is actually at part with other global leaders in technologies including nuclear power, space, pharmaceutical research . Yet at the same time due to the limitations , She is behind in some sectors such as small to medium enterprises’ productivity level. The innovation policy of India has to bear in mind that tapping into this potential requires the Government of India to tap into and invest in rural development. It is estimated that the majority of India’s 1.2 billion population live in the rural regions , with only a small minority , compared to the overall population that is, living in the urban areas (Mumbai, Bangalore, Jaipur, Delhi etc).

What is necessary is to formalize a customized strategy in tapping into the innovation potential of the country. How can that be done? Well for one there should be emphasis on vocational and technical colleges in the country with greater focus on the STEMI pathway as these pathways are the source for innovative potential. The Government of India should increase its investment in domestic scholarships , increase the presence of science and engineering competitions to rally these divisions. This is the long term goal , of course. To augment and synergize this plan, India’s Universities and Colleges should develop reciprocity programs with other developed nations such as Japan, the United States, South Korea, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Russia et al and establish a collaborative framework for increased R&D cooperation with these partners. In the end, the goal is to develop and cultivate a culture of academic research and publications; that culture should be ingrained in India , a culture of competition.

agreed... among few times when a thread has not degenerated into a battle of ultra-nationalism and egos. :D



just in the computer sciences field, in the last 13 or 14 years.



agreed... people either want or have made themselves used to living on salaries, month to month, 10 am to 6 pm... life long... and to prepare for this, they spend their years in colleges preparing for exams, as you said to get a good job.

they neither have the energy nor the courage nor the inclination to invent and discover, just for the joy of it.

:(



the facilities are all right here in india... below is "lovely professional university", a 600 acre campus in the punjab city of jalandhar... it is one the biggest university campuses in the world...

635138116006678676_Lovely%20Professional%20University%20%28LPU%29.jpg


635138116006678676_Lovely%20Professional%20University%20%28LPU%29.jpg


and they have invented nothing, discovered nothing... they are simply another jobnik production factory. :-)



Hi,

In Japan (as well as in the United States), prerequisite for assistant professors getting tenure is a healthy and active curriculum vitae that demonstrates active scientific research publications as well as authorship in either journal bodies or in actual textbooks. The process is actually quite rigid , in Japan, and if an assistant professor does not satisfy at least a minimum of 5 publications a year , then he or she will be outright rejected for tenure. Even when the professor is accepted for tenure he or she hast to at least publish 2 articles per year as base minimum in order to maintain tenure. In fact what is actively seen is the recruitment of undergraduate students or graduate students to partake in the research ; this builds and cultivates a culture of collegiate research.
 
I would say, when India reaches the stage when its government is capable of providing funds to an unemployed citizen just like US, more people will be able to take risk for research and innovation.
 
Before I begin I would like to say first that India is quite a large and truly diverse national entity and there I a wide variety of technology, industries throughout the regions in India. Let me say that India is actually at part with other global leaders in technologies including nuclear power, space, pharmaceutical research . Yet at the same time due to the limitations , She is behind in some sectors such as small to medium enterprises’ productivity level. The innovation policy of India has to bear in mind that tapping into this potential requires the Government of India to tap into and invest in rural development. It is estimated that the majority of India’s 1.2 billion population live in the rural regions , with only a small minority , compared to the overall population that is, living in the urban areas (Mumbai, Bangalore, Jaipur, Delhi etc).

Very well said.

What is necessary is to formalize a customized strategy in tapping into the innovation potential of the country. How can that be done? Well for one there should be emphasis on vocational and technical colleges in the country with greater focus on the STEMI pathway as these pathways are the source for innovative potential. The Government of India should increase its investment in domestic scholarships , increase the presence of science and engineering competitions to rally these divisions. This is the long term goal , of course. To augment and synergize this plan, India’s Universities and Colleges should develop reciprocity programs with other developed nations such as Japan, the United States, South Korea, Germany, United Kingdom, France, Russia et al and establish a collaborative framework for increased R&D cooperation with these partners. In the end, the goal is to develop and cultivate a culture of academic research and publications; that culture should be ingrained in India , a culture of competition.

Education in India is highly subsidized, for those who still can't afford the subsidized fees our government provides educational loans without any security and collateral to poor students. They just have to show the letter of acceptance to govt banks. You would be pleased to know education loan disbursed is 10 Billion USD and education in premier colleges in India cost something like 10,000 USD for a four year term .

In addition the students belonging to below poverty line families are eligible for fee waiver under various schemes and here income of the family and not merit is the criteria so it applies specially to poor students.

What we lack is the culture of research, culture of competition is highly prevalent in India. Indian colleges have the highest rejection rates in world and our STEM competitions and examinations for university entrances (something like SAT on steroids) are brutal were only the most talented or the most coached/prepared students can prevail.
 

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