no invention from India in 60 years: n. r. narayana murthy

[Spectre]

Hey can you please tell me how to enter into Bharat Rakshak i think they don't accept gmail accounts.

No clue, I just browsed through their site. The interesting threads are all military ones where I don't have much to contribute and the rest well let's just say I don't find it fulfilling to enter a thread where everyone is just patting each other's backs.

 

[jamahir]

Out of 60 years 45 years went in search of ideas "How to fill this darn stomach everyday"

true... the political system partly at fault.

And after 2000 i.e when this Y2K problem hit world "New Indian neo-rich middle class" took birth!!

the problem with that is it wasn't a real need in usa... all those complicated insurance/medical records etc are now either simplified or discarded, and not because usa's economic system changed to socialist but because of the post-2007 economic downturn.

maybe you know that ibm-india removed 50,000+ engineers from bangalore and delhi within a few days in february 2014... maybe you know that tcs removed 35,000+ people in december 2014... yahoo-bangalore has shutdown its software unit... these and more are happening for a reason.

so the so-called "software/services revolution" of india was a bubble which was built on unnecessary complications in usa and uk, and these complications are now forced to simplify because of economic downturn in the west... the bubble is bursting and collapsing.

Just wait for few more years...You have waited for 60 years.....How about some more!!

janaab, things have to change now, tomorrow, within the year's end... or they will never change.

 

[Roman 12]

No clue, I just browsed through their site. The interesting threads are all military ones where I don't have much to contribute and the rest well let's just say I don't find it fulfilling to enter a thread where everyone is just patting each other's backs.

Means you had ID in Bharat Rakshak.

 

[nForce]

i think you have a few points in mind already, so you start and others will discuss and add to them.

I believe some of us are converging towards these points..

1. As @Spectre said, Our institutions for higher studies are more focused towards industry and employment rather than pure research. That mentality should change, or at least we should have institutions more focused towards pure R&D.

2. As @Force-India said, it's not just the institutions but the students also who are the reason. Everybody tries to secure a job and gain economic stability in life. Nobody cares much for unique and innovative development. In a country like India, success is measured in terms of how much money he has.

3. My point, same echoed by @Spectre - We don't have much resources and funds for our centers of higher learning. The universities of the West have funds equivalent to GDP of a small country. Naturally a brain drain takes place.

4. @jamahir - Destroy everything-kill everybody ? Let's take refuge in pessimism ?

 

[jamahir]

Such responsibilities and burdens don't leave a lot of free time to pursue research unless it's a job like in ISRO or IPR etc.

what is ipr??

 

[nForce]

what is ipr??

Institute for Plasma Research

 

[Roman 12]

what is ipr??

IPR is Intellectual Property Rights which are given to innovators and in that India stands at lowest level even below kenya. I have been researching about IPR from years and i have advocated to change IPR rules to give platforms for innovation but the Pharmaceutical industry and even many organisations are opposing it. it's just bureaucracy dude,

 

[Spectre]

i will start with the recent case of a young man, school age, who was the indian entrant into a competition arranged by the google company... he built a prototype of a human-voice-enhancing machine which would be affixed to the throat of those people whose voice is weak because of age or illness... he did not invent it yes, but he was innovating by making a cheaper version than was available from foreign manufacturers.

it is sad that he did not find funding from the government or some venture capital company but rather had to enter into a western company's competition.

what most indians fail to understand is that it is the idea that is important and from the start... to build a prototype money and to get a good project's prototype into manufacture also needs money.

but what do indian venture capital companies funds?? they fund online exam preparation companies and online shopping companies, because these don't take a year or two years to come to prototype stage but give "return on investment" within a few months because there is nothing to creative here ( all tools are available ).

i don't know what happened to the young man's project after his project was eliminated at a later stage... come on, why wasn't at least the government funding his idea.

The young man's achievement is commendable, I have some experience with IITs and IIMs of India having studied in one and let me just say they have incubators which cultivate promising innovations and provide them with facilities to further develop and market their Ideas to the VCs and I have seen a few success stories too.

The sad thing is E-Commerce is in vogue right now and that's were the money will flow in, now there are various options other than VCs chief among them being Bank Funding, which would require a collateral like a house. Many people in west do mortgage their homes for their ideas. If that guy was confident he could have taken such a route. As a matter of fact one of my friend did and started a Robotics company in Ahmadabad and is doing well.

The government we all love to hate is nothing but a reflection of us, sooner or later they follow our wishes. It's useless asking why govt is not acting, the simple is answer is they are corrupt and unless you pay some minister or have some solid connection we can't rely on them to nurture such minds. When we change the govt will change too

but again in case of isro stands narayanmurthy's question... invention, innovation and contribution to humanity, which isro has not really done... one has to be fair on that.

isro's budged may be peanuts compared to nasa, but spacex's budget is lot less than isro, and it is spacex that within 13 years of establishment is ready with a seven-seat powered-descending leo spaceship ( dragon v2 ) and its own rockets whose luggage capacity far exceeds isro's.

also, nasa had projects like hubble telescope and voyager spaceships which contributed just a little more to [uhuman[/u] understanding of space.

also, nasa's budget is bigger simply because of nasa being a agency of a capitalist government where everyone wants to make money out of the slightest thing and because they have lot of unnecessary standards to conform to.

spacex operates on a small budget because, (a). they don't follow much of standards but choose to build to their own needs, (b). they innovate rather than procure things from over-pricing contractors.

please watch this vid to know of the spacex approach... it is the unveiling of the dragon v2 spaceship...

NASA and Boing invested in SPACEx AFAIK after they won some competition. Elon musk is no small fish in the pond either but a billionaire. He had the resources to hire the best minds. I am not taking anything away from his achievements but at best he is an exception and given time we would have an Indian Elon Musk too.

all that could have been taken care of in 1947 if the founders of the indian republic had thought of a socialist political system where citizens basic needs are very easily taken care of and the citizens were left free to contribute.

when one's material needs are fulfilled without spending most of the day in economic bondage, one can have the spiritual calmness and harmony to create, discover and contribute.

I don't agree with you, I have no wish to get into debate regarding ideologies but suffice to say the socialist experiment has well and truly failed and our state today is due to our ill advised flirtation with socialist policies.

but we can't wait for a generation more... this is something to be started now, tomorrow, within the year's end... otherwise it will never start.

I agree and admire your urgency but we wanted a democracy and we got it. Change would have to be bottoms up which is slow and can't be driven top down like in China which is relatively faster and more ruthless

 

[Koovie]

Thats a harsh and exaggerated statement...

But we do need to create a more open economy and society where innovative minds can prosper and develop their ideas and where they can receive investments easier.

 

[Spectre]

Institute for Plasma Research

I have worked there for my internship they are collaborating big time on ITER which in a nutshell is fusion tech

 

[jamahir]

1. As @Spectre said, Our institutions for higher studies are more focused towards industry and employment rather than pure research. That mentality should change, or at least we should have institutions more focused towards pure R&D.

agreed.

2. As @Force-India said, it's not just the institutions but the students also who are the reason. Everybody tries to secure a job and gain economic stability in life. Nobody cares much for unique and innovative development. In a country like India, success is measured in terms of how much money he has.

exactly... very right.

3. My point, same echoed by @Spectre - We don't have much resources and funds for our centers of higher learning. The universities of the West have funds equivalent to GDP of a small country. Naturally a brain drain takes place.

disagree.

like i said in previous page, it takes only about 125,000 rupees ( 1.25 lakh ) to buy a fpga board to simulate a new microprocessor design... even a small computer institute can afford that... the need then is of brave people who throw away their college textbooks and their job experience letters and jump in with self-confidence saying "we will present the world with a new microprocessor".

in summary, when one changes approach and simplifies for oneself, it doesn't take crores of rupees.

4. @jamahir - Destroy everything-kill everybody ? Let's take refuge in pessimism ?

no, take refuge in socialism and restart from scratch... a new revolutionary society.

this should be the slogan of the system and its people...

"when one's material needs are fulfilled without spending most of the day in economic bondage, one can have the spiritual calmness and harmony to create, discover and contribute."

 

[IrbiS]

@jamahir we are socially primitive both India and Pakistan, a society where kids are wired to get education just for earning and job. Just starting pouring money into the institutions right now will do any good? No. You gotta re-wire the whole system, giving space to the young minds which most of your generation isn't ready for. Even with solid planning and smooth execution starting right now, it'll take time. Oh wait you're missing somethin', you need prosperity first to do something like this.

 

[Spectre]

like i said in previous page, it takes only about 125,000 rupees ( 1.25 lakh ) to buy a fpga board to simulate a new microprocessor design... even a small computer institute can afford that... the need then is of brave people who throw away their college textbooks and their job experience letters and jump in with self-confidence saying "we will present the world with a new microprocessor".

in summary, when one changes approach and simplifies for oneself, it doesn't take crores of rupees.

I agree with the point you are making partly, my college had PLCs and FPGA board and provision for ordering ICs even if they costed tens of thousand of rupees just for your research projects. We didn't utilize those facilities. FOr our projects we copied some design from internet rather than coming up with something original. Profs were all PHDs but hardly anyone used to approach them for advice for something original they had designed. So yeah will is lacking

Now why is it lacking? Our prep was geared towards scoring well in exams, foreign internships and CAT exams. As i said we were more focused towards financial security. India does not have a welfare system because we can't afford it. May be a time would come when we can afford social security like Scandinavian countries and our minds would be free from economic bondage.

Means you had ID in Bharat Rakshak.

I don't, I just browsed through the site and the forum w/o creating one

 

[Roman 12]

I don't, I just browsed through the site and the forum w/o creating one

If you are working on creating one then let me know how to do.

 

[nForce]

disagree.

like i said in previous page, it takes only about 125,000 rupees ( 1.25 lakh ) to buy a fpga board to simulate a new microprocessor design... even a small computer institute can afford that... the need then is of brave people who throw away their college textbooks and their job experience letters and jump in with self-confidence saying "we will present the world with a new microprocessor".

jamahir.. you have to understand this. R&D needs money. You can go only up to a certain extent with singular thoughts. That's why you will see, traditionally innovations have been successful only in countries that have invested heavily in it. I'm not ready to accept that a tiny country like Israel has more brilliant minds than in India. But, it's a fact that they have better than us in this field. As we invest more money we will get the results, or at least we will be one step closer.

Be it socialism or capitalism, at the end of the of the day, you need Das Kapital!!

in summary, when one changes approach and simplifies for oneself, it doesn't take crores of rupees.



no, take refuge in socialism and restart from scratch... a new revolutionary society.

this should be the slogan of the system and its people...

"when one's material needs are fulfilled without spending most of the day in economic bondage, one can have the spiritual calmness and harmony to create, discover and contribute."

I will add one more point, yours..more social awareness is necessary. Let's not take it to Socialism yet. USA did perfectly fine during the cold-war era. R&D has got nothing to do with any kind of -ism..