No freedom of belief for muslim students in liberal secular Switzerland

[Sparkle229]

what happens if he doesnt want to shake hands he can just wave bye to the teacher

 

[BABA AGHORI]

lets just put religion aside for a moment .don't you think it ethically and most probably legally wrong to force someone to have physical interaction with other people. where is the free will here.what if you have social anxiety or you are an introvert.
@Zibago

Arabic is not an official language in Switzerland, and students do need to learn English, German or french to study in Switzerland. You never questioned force learning alien language could be legally wrong, where as learning culture is ethically/legally wrong for you...
Take it or leave it.. as someone else said... It's there land there rules..

 

[Akhill]

what happens if he doesnt want to shake hands he can just wave bye to the teacher

Then he has to go to a country where there is no law for children to shake hands with teachers.. as simple as that. ? Get out of Swiss.

 

[dray]

These fundamentalists are trying to bring the same fundamentalism in their host countries that burnt down their own country to ashes and made them leave their homeland in the first place.

EU should have thought many many times before opening their gates to these people, things are going to get worse.

 

[haviZsultan]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36382596

Switzerland: Muslim students must shake teacher's hand

Muslim students in Switzerland must shake their teacher's hand at the beginning and end of lessons, a regional authority has ruled.

A controversial exemption from the tradition had been granted for two teenage brothers whose interpretation of the Koran meant they were unwilling to touch a member of the opposite sex.

If they continue to refuse, their parents could face a fine.

The regional authority said teachers "had the right" to demand handshakes.

Country profile: Switzerland

Shaking teachers' hands as a sign of respect is a longstanding tradition in Switzerland.

When it emerged last month that a middle school had allowed two Syrian brothers aged 14 and 15 to avoid the tradition due to their religious beliefs, it sparked anational controversy.

The boys, whose father is an imam, said their faith did not allow them to shake hands with a woman who was not related to them.

Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said on television that "shaking hands is part of our culture".

There are about 350,000 Muslims in Switzerland, which has a population of eight million.

Some Swiss Muslim groups said there was no religious justification for refusing to shake a female teacher's hand and urged the Swiss not to give in to extremist demands. But one Islamic organisation said a handshake between men and women was prohibited.

The family's citizenship process was halted and the migration office in Basel said it was seeking more information about the circumstances under which the boys' father's asylum request was approved.

'Relieved'
The school, in the small northern town of Therwil, had tried to find a compromise in the matter by deciding the boys should not shake hands with male or female teachers.

Later, after considerable media attention, the school turned to regional authorities to settle the matter.

The authorities said in a statement on Wednesday that "the public interest concerning gender equality as well as integration of foreigners far outweighs that concerning the freedom of belief of students".

The school said it was "relieved" at the ruling and that there was now "clarity on how to proceed".

In future, the parents or guardians of pupils in the northern canton of Basel-Country could face fines of up to 5,000 Swiss francs (£3,400; $5,000; 4,500 euros) if the pupils refuse to shake hands with a teacher.

The boys told Swiss media (in German) that "nobody could make them" shake hands with a woman, and that they "could not just delete their culture as if it were a hard drive".

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$5000 for refusing a handshake !!!!! This is the real face of liberal secularism. What prompted them to go so hard on a small minority? Its simple - liberalism is inherently an intolerant ideology. Contrary to what intellectually colonized liberals in the muslim world will have muslims believe , liberalism has some definite conditions for tolerance which is that beliefs and cultures will have to conform to liberal values of the majority - in other words they are inherently intolerant of other beliefs and values. Examples in history and now present day europe is a testimony to this fact. In this case the swiss state has actually decided that swiss beliefs of "gender equality" supersedes the right to freedom of belief of students. In other words they believe that they have the right to force down their majority liberal beliefs on the minority. SO much for tolerance and freedom of belief. Its preposterous that secular liberal west dare blame muslims for things the liberal west is actually guilty off , while muslims are in reality free from such bigotry and intolerance. Now no where in the muslim world does muslims force down Islam on the minorities. History is a proof of Islam's tolerance of other's faiths.

Its really commendable how the two syrian boys are holding an uncompromising attitude and they are so firm in their faith. May Allah (swt) strengthen their faith and keep them steadfast in the way of Islam and make life easy and comfortable for them.

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https://islamqa.info/en/21183 -
Shaking hands with a non-mahram woman

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@Zibago @haviZsultan @Kaptaan @SHK @PersonasNonGrata @madokafc @Salik @Hell hound @A.P. Richelieu @flamer84 @Steve781

This is not an example of true secularism... in a secular society all groups have equal rights. Banning of Christmas in Somalia also is not true secularism... banning of minarets and burqa in france is also anti-secular.

 

[flamer84]

This is not an example of true secularism... in a secular society all groups have equal rights. Banning of Christmas in Somalia also is not true secularism... banning of minarets and burqa in france is also anti-secular.

No ,it is not.Refusing to obey elementary social customs of the host country is racism and a sign of segregation.These people will never integrate into mainstream society if they keep their backwards views so the Swiss are acting against segregation.Secular views work up to a point.

 

[Mav3rick]

This has other basics. This is about islamist extremists coming here and thinking they can shove their way on others. Wrong tolerance is totally wrong here,

If they want stay here they have to bow 100% for our customs. If now, they have to be pushed out.

I´m against any tolerance towards enemies.

Are Muslims your enemies?

 

[haviZsultan]

No ,it is not.Refusing to obey elementary social customs of the host country is racism and a sign of segregation.These people will never integrate into mainstream society if they keep their backwards views so the Swiss are acting against segregation.Secular views work up to a point.

Everyone interprets religion differently. Personally I see it as a sign of regression not to shake hands with female teachers for muslim boys or male teachers for muslim girls and it is nothing to do with real modern Islam. But everyone deserves to have his viewpoint on religious matters unless they resort to terrorism. If they don't want to shake hands then its their choice and if they are not given that right their basic freedom is being impinged upon.

 

[flamer84]

Everyone interprets religion differently. Personally I see it as a sign of regression not to shake hands with female teachers for muslim boys or male teachers for muslim girls and it is nothing to do with real modern Islam. But everyone deserves to have his viewpoint on religious matters unless they resort to terrorism. If they don't want to shake hands then its their choice and if they are not given that right their basic freedom is being impinged upon.

You can practice your religion beliefs as long as you don't infringe upon others rights or insult those around you.In Europe it's considered disrespect towards your female counterpart not to shake hands.You see,its the Swiss/European society,and they can interpret what's disrespectfull to them.

 

[haviZsultan]

You can practice your religion beliefs as long as you don't infringe upon others rights or insult those around you.In Europe it's considered disrespect towards your female counterpart not to shake hands.You see,its the Swiss/European society,and they can interpret what's disrespectfull to them.

I agree that muslims going to Switzerland or other European countries should be prepared for something like this though it is their right to fight through laws and legislation against it.

For example many muslim parents try to condition their kids in Islamic ways in these societies but the kids turn to whoring, drinking and hedonism in these societies which is far more liberal in these regards. Its a very natural thing that when you find the freedom available in western societies you adopt it as opposed to strict interpretation of religion.

The local culture of the west impacts migrants. I know you do not see the migrants integrating but they are integrating, their kids are and they are abandoning Islamic ways to completely merge. Its bound to happen as they are in western sphere of influence. Muslims need to know that by the 3rd or 4th generation their children will be like the locals.

However do note that even among the more conservative, elder population the will to impose shariah law or Islamic jurisprudence in western regions is very low. Most muslims themselves cannot live in such repressive laws.

 

[RoadRunner401]

lets just put religion aside for a moment .don't you think it ethically and most probably legally wrong to force someone to have physical interaction with other people. where is the free will here.what if you have social anxiety or you are an introvert.
@Zibago

No, its not right to force some one to do anything against there will, having said that no one is forcing these retards to stay in Europe, they should move back to stone ages and continue to live in a cave.

 

[livingdead]

fu seikh fu fu fu
View attachment 308097
why you do this

lol... I cant stop giggling...
on topic.. this is harsh and certainly not liberalism... but then europe is pretty conservative/insular place, liberalism is very new concept to them.

 

[flamer84]

The local culture of the west impacts migrants. I know you do not see the migrants integrating but they are integrating, their kids are and they are abandoning Islamic ways to completely merge. Its bound to happen as they are in western sphere of influence. Muslims need to know that by the 3rd or 4th generation their children will be like the locals.

3rd or 4th generation is a to distant time frame for host countries to expect integration.One must be ready to integrate once he sets foot in the adoptive country.I know what I signed for when I came to the UK ,the most I deal with is some day to day life things that are different from my country but I learn and adapt every day to the host country.If you're not ready to do that when you emigrate,stay home.

 

[haviZsultan]

lol... I cant stop giggling...
on topic.. this is harsh and certainly not liberalism... but then europe is pretty conservative/insular place, liberalism is very new concept to them.

Well liberalism and secularism in the west has widely been accepted. In muslim countries however the mullahs and Kings have more power than equality and freedom. We should take a leaf out of western concepts and adopt them into our society as well. The first regime to promote secularism was ummayad Spain.

 

[livingdead]

Well liberalism and secularism in the west has widely been accepted. In muslim countries however the mullahs and Kings have more power than equality and freedom. We should take a leaf out of western concepts and adopt them into our society as well. The first regime to promote secularism was ummayad Spain.

liberalism is not widely accepted in west... its only elites who can afford to be liberal, as it does not affect their daily life. such people may consist barely 5 percent of population...
secularism however is deeply entrenched in west.. even then something remains same... in UK, anglican church leaders are members of upper house(unthinkable in both India and pakistan)... law is surprisingly lenient toward catholic priests who were involved in pedophile gangs.