No country in the Western camp has entered the ranks of developed countries through normal means

[Yaseen1]

western civilization is moving towards their end they have dark future and soon they will see civil unrest in their countries and law and order will become further worst

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Seems more like leveraging Western inventions to modernize the standard of living for the masses is more important than having a dictator. There are plenty of dictators in this world who rule over backwards masses of people..and to them 'economy first" means lining their own pockets "first". So it really doesn't come down to a specific kind of government.

More like building electric power stations, water and sewage systems, phone/television/radio/internet infrastructure, home heating and air conditioning systems, etc.

 

[bsruzm]

The Turks should let the Kurds in Turkey independently establish their country and recognize the Turkish massacre of the Armenians,
And of course You should think about also how to defeat Greece ( Greece has blocked your west)and then come to teach the Chinese lessons.



Turkey’s Suleiman the Great is in real tears.
China is relying on atomic bombs, hydrogen bombs, neutron bombs, the world's largest army and the world's second economy to recover its historical status.
Turkey has no nuclear bombs and has no power to speak.
You better hurry to find your American father to cry, let him sell you several Patriot missile and F35 to kill kurds.

Your mentality lol

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

I have argued the same for a long time however, people seem to have made up their minds that unless they whore the western values they would not see development/enlightenment. It is parodied on every venue and box making factories i.e. colleges and universities. The knowledge of civilizations is being lost in not developing or further researching existing skills/innovations to a factory line mindset. People and civilization are sleepwalking to their own demise.

The current pursuit of American freedom and democracy is still very popular in the world (at least, this so-called "freedom and democracy" can give hope to the people of the world, although in reality, this "freedom and democracy" cannot bring country into a developed state).

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I'm not talking about freedom/democracy bandwagon(it is used as means to justify). It is the bastardization of every aspect of society and its export as culture and more importantly development for some a prerequisite to enlightenment...

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Seems more like leveraging Western inventions to modernize the standard of living for the masses is more important than having a dictator. There are plenty of dictators in this world who rule over backwards masses of people..and to them 'economy first" means lining their own pockets "first". So it really doesn't come down to a specific kind of government.

No one can say that the dictatorship can reach the developed countries status. In the end, it is still necessary for the rulers to implement the correct economic policies;
But look, Japan (before World War II,
under the Japanese dictatorship of Japan Emperor, Japan realized industrialization. In World War II, Japan’s aircraft carrier construction capacity was second in the world, second only to the United States),
Germany (Before the WWI, the German Empire - Iron and Blood Prime Minister Bismarck achieved national reunification and industrialization through war and strong promotion of militarism,
Singapore (one party long-term governance led by Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore does not have Western political freedom in the true sense，However, because Singapore is too small, it does not pose a threat to the United States. The United States does not oppose the human rights situation in Singapore. The United States only occasionally dissatisfied and regrets the whipping sanction of Singapore.),
China Taiwan(Under the dictatorship of Chiang Ching-kuo, Taiwan realizes economic miracle),
and CHina Hong Kong (Hong Kong under British rule did not have democracy and political freedom) ),
South Korea (the long-term rule of the Korean military coup dictatorship),
can't you see any similar places?

 

[Reddington]

No country in the Western camp has entered the ranks of developed countries through normal means

No country in the Western camp has entered the ranks of developed countries through normal means, including very small countries such as Belgium, which have participated in the invasion of China by the Eight-Power Allied Forces( during which CHINA Qing gov was forced to pay 450 millions silver to the western invaders and eventually 690 millions silver interests added, at that time CHINA has 450 millions people, this number is specially made to humiliate each Chinese at that time) and colonized the Congo Republic -kinshasa.

Capitalism or the so called democracy or freedom never worked and never helped any country enter developed status, former empires like UK, France and US, Japan, realized their developed country status through firstly invasion and colonization which means stealing the wealth of other countries to make themselves rich and when you become rich, you start to wonder what else you can do,which means later the innovation and high techs company,

There is also a famous saying in China: "The granary is full and people begin to know the etiquette, and the food and clothing are sufficient and people begin to know the honor and disgrace."====仓廪实而知礼节，衣食足而知荣辱。
-Ancient Chinese Books:《管子·牧民》


Few countries or regions like Singapore, South korea, CHINA Taiwan, CHINA HK, entered developed country or regions status with dictatorship but developed very fastly, never a country followed US entered into developed status without dictaship. Israel is US 51th state, does not count(Israel also guarantees its own security and development through war and the occupation of Palestinian territories and the resources of neighboring countries.).

so many bad exemples, Philippines, Thailand, India, Liberia, Congo, Algeria, Outer Mongolia, Sri Lanka, Tunisia,etc......

Japan had already achieved industrialization before World War II, and it was realized under the dictatorship of the Japanese Emperor/King. Before the Second World War, the Japanese colonies such as China Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, and the three northeastern provinces of China, and so on. Japan arbitrarily plundered the natural resources and other resources of the occupied areas. In World War II, the most powerful aircraft carrier construction capability was the United States and Japan,which you can not deny.

After the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895, Japan extorted China’s 200 million silver. At that time, the annual revenue of the Qing government of China was about 80 million silver, and Japan’s fiscal year’s revenue was only about 45 million silver.


Similarly, German industrialization was under the autocratic rule of the German emperor and the iron-blood prime minister Bismarck and extorted the French war reparation through the "Prussian-French War" (5 Billion francs) and numerous colonies (yes, before the First World War, Germany also occupied a lot of colonies in the world, including Jiaozhou Peninsula and Qingdao city, Shandong Province, China).

Back to 1949 when 85% Chineses can not read and write which means they were illiterate!

The knowledge built in their German and Japananese brains through higher education helped with stolen wealth and money before WWII did not ruined at all, ruines give them more free spaces to redesign and to innovate!

Dictatorship does not guarantee success, but those who have succeeded before and after WWII have been under dictatorship,give me an exemple that is successful without dictatorship before and after WWII.

Therefore, those who believe that Western multi-party elections and so-called liberal democracy represent the ultimate goal of the world are really naive: freedom and democracy are the result, not the cause.



Since freedom and democracy are so important, why did Washington, as a slave owner, not abolish the slavery system when the United States was founded in 1776, but it was only in 1865 that President Lincoln announced the abolition of the slave system which also initiated the American civil war?

Since freedom and democracy are so important, why did British and American women only get the right to vote in 1921 and 1925?

Since liberal democracy is so important, the black people who account for 12.8% of the US total population have produced only a single one mulatto President Obama for more than 200 years from 1776 to 2018 ?

Very astute analysis. Well done. My thoughts exactly.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

No one can say that the dictatorship can reach the developed countries status. In the end, it is still necessary for the rulers to implement the correct economic policies;
But look, Japan (before World War II,
under the Japanese dictatorship of Japan Emperor, Japan realized industrialization. In World War II, Japan’s aircraft carrier construction capacity was second in the world, second only to the United States),
Germany (Before the WWI, the German Empire - Iron and Blood Prime Minister Bismarck achieved national reunification and industrialization through war and strong promotion of militarism,
Singapore (one party long-term governance led by Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore does not have Western political freedom in the true sense),
China Taiwan(Under the dictatorship of Chiang Ching-kuo, Taiwan realizes economic miracle),
and CHina Hong Kong (Hong Kong under British rule did not have democracy and political freedom) ),
South Korea (the long-term rule of the Korean military coup dictatorship),
can't you see any similar places?

I'm pretty sure Germany was considered "developed" way before Bismark. Probably in the 1850's at least.

The Industrial Revolution was ramping up across Europe from about 1820 to 1840.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

I'm pretty sure Germany was considered "developed" way before Bismark. Probably in the 1850's at least.

I'm pretty sure Germany was considered "developed" way before Bismark. Probably in the 1850's at least.

The Industrial Revolution was ramping up in Europe from about 1820 to 1840.

Yes, according to the so-called “most favored nation treatment”, the unequal treaties signed by China and the United Kingdom in 1842 apply to all Western countries. Germany has enjoyed various privileges in China since 1842.
Germany also has colonies such as Namibia in Africa (Germany has the right to use the resources of the colonies free of charge).
Germany’s colonies are small, mainly because the country’s reunification is relatively late, and it is not that they do not want to occupy.

Germany received 5 billion francs in compensation from France and occupied the resourceful Alsace and Lorraine (partial), which have greatly contributed to the industrialization and electrification of Germany.
Don't forget that the first industrial revolution was in the UK, the second industrial revolution was in Germany and the United States, and the industrial revolution was impossible in poor countries.
Huawei's achievements are based on R&D investment of 10 billion to 15 billion US dollars per year.

It is a pity that Chinese companies still have too little money. Apart from Huawei, there is basically not enough money for research and development.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Yes, according to the so-called “most favored nation treatment”, the unequal treaties signed by China and the United Kingdom in 1842 apply to all Western countries. Germany has enjoyed various privileges in China since 1842..

Don't think so. The Europeans were in perpetual competition with each other (that included multiple wars anongst themselves) so it is unlikely anybody was going to share any kind of benefit with others. That's like saying Japan and China are sharing some benefit.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

I'm pretty sure Germany was considered "developed" way before Bismark. Probably in the 1850's at least.

The Industrial Revolution was ramping up across Europe from about 1820 to 1840.

I'm pretty sure Germany was considered "developed" way before Bismark. Probably in the 1850's at least.

The Industrial Revolution was ramping up across Europe from about 1820 to 1840.

You are wrong, the first industrial revolution, specifically the 1765 Watt invented the steam engine, the British completed the first industrial revolution around 1825 (the UK also occupied many colonies in the world at the same time, as raw material and goods sales market, such as India, North America, South Africa, Egypt, etc.).

France's industrial revolution in the 1820s -1860s， was introduced from the United Kingdom (the France also occupied many colonies in the world as a source of raw materials and goods sales market, such as New France, French Guiana, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Reunion, Madagascar, etc.).

The German industrial revolution has gone through three stages:
the early stage of the 1830s and 1840s;

the 1850s and 1860s after the “1848 revolution”, the stage of rapid development and industrial upswing, and the modern industrial and capitalist system was basically established.

After the reunification of Germany in 1871, it was transferred to the completion stage.

Don't think so. The Europeans were in perpetual competition with each other (that included multiple wars anongst themselves) so it is unlikely anybody was going to share any kind of benefit with others. That's like saying Japan and China are sharing some benefit.

Don't forget the 1844 China-Washington Wangxia Unfair Treaty.

All treaties signed by China and foreign countries, the United Kingdom has the privilege to enjoy it, and finally it is used in all Western countries.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
'The Industrial Revolution was the transition to new manufacturing processes in Europe and the US, in the period from about 1760 to sometime between 1820 and 1840.'

i figure by at least 1850 Germany would have already hit the developed level. This is way before Bismark and 1871.

The European continent as a whole started things a little later than the US & UK. For instance we both started running electrical wiring in the 1880's. However before then we had already implemented natural gas lines to homes which people used in gas chandeliers.

So when electrical lines started becoming common other inventions that are now considered part of the definition of “developed” occurred.

In the late 1880’s home hot water heaters started being invented and homes now

had dual faucets with hot and cold running water.

circa 1900
It wasn't long before the little hand fed coal stoves people had were replaced by something mechanical that allowed you to heat your entire home..

Also at the same time they put up poles for electrical wiring they added telephone lines

In 1902 air conditioning was invented.

So I think "developed" had little to do with the type of government. It was more driven by capitalism.

Don't forget the 1844 China-Washington Wangxia Unfair Treaty.

How did this benefit Europe?

 

[Secret Service]

No country in the Western camp has entered the ranks of developed countries through normal means

No country in the Western camp has entered the ranks of developed countries through normal means, including very small countries such as Belgium, which have participated in the invasion of China by the Eight-Power Allied Forces( during which CHINA Qing gov was forced to pay 450 millions silver to the western invaders and eventually 690 millions silver interests added, at that time CHINA has 450 millions people, this number is specially made to humiliate each Chinese at that time) and colonized the Congo Republic -kinshasa.

Capitalism or the so called democracy or freedom never worked and never helped any country enter developed status, former empires like UK, France and US, Japan, realized their developed country status through firstly invasion and colonization which means stealing the wealth of other countries to make themselves rich and when you become rich, you start to wonder what else you can do,which means later the innovation and high techs company,

There is also a famous saying in China: "The granary is full and people begin to know the etiquette, and the food and clothing are sufficient and people begin to know the honor and disgrace."====仓廪实而知礼节，衣食足而知荣辱。
-Ancient Chinese Books:《管子·牧民》


Few countries or regions like Singapore, South korea, CHINA Taiwan, CHINA HK, entered developed country or regions status with dictatorship but developed very fastly, never a country followed US entered into developed status without dictaship. Israel is US 51th state, does not count(Israel also guarantees its own security and development through war and the occupation of Palestinian territories and the resources of neighboring countries.).

so many bad exemples, Philippines, Thailand, India, Liberia, Congo, Algeria, Outer Mongolia, Sri Lanka, Tunisia,etc......

Japan had already achieved industrialization before World War II, and it was realized under the dictatorship of the Japanese Emperor/King. Before the Second World War, the Japanese colonies such as China Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, and the three northeastern provinces of China, and so on. Japan arbitrarily plundered the natural resources and other resources of the occupied areas. In World War II, the most powerful aircraft carrier construction capability was the United States and Japan,which you can not deny.

After the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-1895, Japan extorted China’s 200 million silver. At that time, the annual revenue of the Qing government of China was about 80 million silver, and Japan’s fiscal year’s revenue was only about 45 million silver.


Similarly, German industrialization was under the autocratic rule of the German emperor and the iron-blood prime minister Bismarck and extorted the French war reparation through the "Prussian-French War" (5 Billion francs) and numerous colonies (yes, before the First World War, Germany also occupied a lot of colonies in the world, including Jiaozhou Peninsula and Qingdao city, Shandong Province, China).

Back to 1949 when 85% Chineses can not read and write which means they were illiterate!

The knowledge built in their German and Japananese brains through higher education helped with stolen wealth and money before WWII did not ruined at all, ruines give them more free spaces to redesign and to innovate!

Dictatorship does not guarantee success, but those who have succeeded before and after WWII have been under dictatorship,give me an exemple that is successful without dictatorship before and after WWII.

Therefore, those who believe that Western multi-party elections and so-called liberal democracy represent the ultimate goal of the world are really naive: freedom and democracy are the result, not the cause.



Since freedom and democracy are so important, why did Washington, as a slave owner, not abolish the slavery system when the United States was founded in 1776, but it was only in 1865 that President Lincoln announced the abolition of the slave system which also initiated the American civil war?

Since freedom and democracy are so important, why did British and American women only get the right to vote in 1921 and 1925?

Since liberal democracy is so important, the black people who account for 12.8% of the US total population have produced only a single one mulatto President Obama for more than 200 years from 1776 to 2018 ?

Pretty much true. Fortunately or unfortunately, Pakistan has seen highest growth ratio and development under past dictatorships.

 

[rambro]

That got to hurt man

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
'The Industrial Revolution was the transition to new manufacturing processes in Europe and the US, in the period from about 1760 to sometime between 1820 and 1840.'

i figure by at least 1850 Germany would have already hit the developed level. This is way before Bismark and 1871.

The European continent as a whole started things a little later than the US & UK. For instance we both started running electrical wiring in the 1880's.



How did this benefit Europe?

UK and later France forced China Qing gov to share the previliges obtained by Americians,and they made it.

The dictatorship that is properly used can maximize the power of a country and its people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
'The Industrial Revolution was the transition to new manufacturing processes in Europe and the US, in the period from about 1760 to sometime between 1820 and 1840.'

i figure by at least 1850 Germany would have already hit the developed level. This is way before Bismark and 1871.

The European continent as a whole started things a little later than the US & UK. For instance we both started running electrical wiring in the 1880's. However before then we had already implemented natural gas lines to homes which people used in gas chandeliers.

So I think "developed" has little to do with the type of government.



How did this benefit Europe?

The Chinese understand more about the unequal treaties than you . All Western countries eventually can enjoy the special benefits that obtained in China by a single imperialist country. For example, Japan forced the Chinese government to open Chongqing as a new trading port, and finally all the Western countries enjoy it all at the same time, because China was a big empire after all and was huge, and the West need take the concerted action in China to achieve the maximum benefit in China. Otherwise, there will be no so-called eight-nation coalition forces invading China.