Nirbhay Cruise Missile Family Finally Revealed!

[Safriz]

Ok i am not here to Crash the party..But admit it this thread is a fanboy speculative thread based on Blogs and Random Artist impressions..No Nirbhay has been tested yet in single piece..
Yes the components may have been tested as shown in the pictures in this thread,but no evidence of the missile has been put together.
I read the whole thread,there is evidence of Inertial guidance,there is evidence of gps+glonass integration..But no evidence of TERCOM and DSMAC the two most important technologies for a cruise missile...
There is a picture of an active radar seeker..Why would a land attack Cruise missile need an active radar seeker? wont it compromise the stealth a cruise missile relies on?

 

[The A-5]

@anyone with doubts regarding the missile

you can go to his blog and post a question in the comments section, he'll answer your queries
sooner or later.

 

[Safriz]

@anyone with doubts regarding the missile

you can go to his blog and post a question in the comments section, he'll answer your queries
sooner or later.

Dont worry,this is not Reuters or a Government website..Everything doesn't have to be Fact.All speculations and fanboyinsm are allowed , or so i believe..
we do it all the time on Pakistan's defense hardware.....
But as you suggested,i will post some questions on his blog...

 

[Safriz]

Ok done..I posted my queries on his Blog...

 

[holysaturn]

.........deleted......

Ok i am not here to Crash the party..But admit it this thread is a fanboy speculative thread based on Blogs and Random Artist impressions..No Nirbhay has been tested yet in single piece..
Yes the components may have been tested as shown in the pictures in this thread,but no evidence of the missile has been put together.
I read the whole thread,there is evidence of Inertial guidance,there is evidence of gps+glonass integration..But no evidence of TERCOM and DSMAC the two most important technologies for a cruise missile...
There is a picture of an active radar seeker..Why would a land attack Cruise missile need an active radar seeker? wont it compromise the stealth a cruise missile relies on?

Ok i am not here to Crash the party..But admit it this thread is a fanboy speculative thread based on Blogs and Random Artist impressions..No Nirbhay has been tested yet in single piece..
Yes the components may have been tested as shown in the pictures in this thread,but no evidence of the missile has been put together.
I read the whole thread,there is evidence of Inertial guidance,there is evidence of gps+glonass integration..But no evidence of TERCOM and DSMAC the two most important technologies for a cruise missile...
There is a picture of an active radar seeker..Why would a land attack Cruise missile need an active radar seeker? wont it compromise the stealth a cruise missile relies on?

Ring laser gyro is the most advanced INS available today (have doubt check this http://www.asee.org/documents/sections/middle-atlantic/fall-2009/01-Evaluation-Of-Ring-Laser-And-Fiber-Optic-Gyroscope-Technology.pdf its a quantum leap over analog ones which i think babur has)that is why its so closely gaurded considering the US most advanced slbm trident employs it.....
Latest american cruise missiles employ a mix of laser gyro ins and a seeker eg. Slam-er http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.displayPlatform&key=3C80F4E1-1B4E-480F-9F9C-E8875B3C5B69, jassm http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2001/february/JASSMSFlightTestDemonstratesUniqueM.html......
One of the reasons tercom,dsmac are not used because nirbhay is a loitering missile " This is a loitering missile which can round a target and perform several manoeuvres when required. It has very good precision, endurance and accuracy." http://newindianexpress.com/states/odisha/article605218.ece and tercom doesnt allow rerouting as the the missiles path is already fixed "One disadvantage of TERCOM systems is that the entire route has to be pre-planned, including its launch point. If the missile is launched from an unexpected location or flies too far off-course, it will never fly over the features included in the maps, and become lost. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERCOM
. Planning a cruise missile attack properly is a complex task, as the opposing air defences must be carefully mapped out, terrain must be studied, and appropriate ingress head- ings and waypoints chosen to minimise weapon exposure time to the target’s terminal SAM/AAA defences. This can be further complicated in environments with intense GPS jam- ming, as terrain contour matching (TERCOM/TERPROM) and optical correlator (DSMAC) guidance techniques require overflight of sufficiently complex terrain features to provide good navigational fixes.
http://www.ausairpower.net/PDF-A/TE-ALCM-Dec-04-PA.pdf
The us and russia use it because they had sophisticated imaging sattelites which took extensive images of waypoints before feeding them into the missile ,btw pakistan cannot rely on china for such information during crisis or it can rely on google maps......
And about the seeker slam-er,jassm have seekers and even the kh-55 was planned to have a seeker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-55_(missile_family)

 

[sancho]

What do you think about Nirbhay GLCM ?? Will there be a version too .

Most definitely, especially when we see how often IA gets Brahmos, they won't miss out on this one and with Indo-China borders in mind. Integration of Brahmos to MKI is mainly caused by the fact that we currently have only limited range cruise missiles for IA, so IAF will extend the range to counter this. Nirbhay for IA in the other hand makes using fighters as launch platforms less important.

The 700km version looks like a replica of Russian club class missile..
The air intake is identical....

It's simply funny how bad you always try to find a bad point against missiles used by Indian forces, be it Brahmos, Klub-S and now even Nirbhay.

 

[MilSpec]

considering the usual failure rate, there is a long road to travel to achieve that

Considering the transparency in pakistan's missile tech, it's difficult to gage it's success rate too.

 

[SQ8]

Considering the transparency in pakistan's missile tech, it's difficult to gage it's success rate too.

It is, and the level of failures with each Step is high..
however, this reduced after the North Korean models(which werent exactly reliable).
And taking a Kaizen improvement approach has helped keep those rates down.

Also, a lot of the tests.. such as basic motor tests.. cold tests.. flight tests.. aren't mentioned.
I know of one missile test that was carried out using JUST the guidance section to just verify the flight parameters..

the missile ended up landing somewhere in the Arabian sea some 300km off target.

 

[Dazzler]

Considering the transparency in pakistan's missile tech, it's difficult to gage it's success rate too.

True

Transparency has been one constant in Pakistani defence arena, however, the failure rate of most indigenous defence products between two countries is radically different.

On topic, i still think its too early to predict, only time will tell. Good luck for the tests for your first indigenous cruise missile.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

considering the usual failure rate, there is a long road to travel to achieve that

Have you been seeing the failure rate of Indian missile tests in the past year or 2?

 

[kurup]

Good to see india trying to catch up with Pakistan in cruise missile technology.

Only in subsonic category.

In supersonic missile category we are very ahead of you .

Most definitely, especially when we see how often IA gets Brahmos, they won't miss out on this one and with Indo-China borders in mind. Integration of Brahmos to MKI is mainly caused by the fact that we currently have only limited range cruise missiles for IA, so IAF will extend the range to counter this. Nirbhay for IA in the other hand makes using fighters as launch platforms less important.

So once again PKS has given us a BS report .

 

[kurup]

Yes, the 750km Nirbhay-Mini only has air-launch version, with no booster attached.

What about the 1200 km Nirbhay ?? What variants will it have according to you ??

 

[The A-5]

What about the 1200 km Nirbhay ?? What variants will it have according to you ??

ALCM and SLCM are presently under development - GLCM will be developed thereafter IMO, if IA
wants to add some range punch to the 290-km Block-2 BrahMos and 550-km Block-3, both cruise at
Mach 3.

 

[Safriz]

True

Transparency has been one constant in Pakistani defence arena, however, the failure rate of most indigenous defence products between two countries is radically different.

On topic, i still think its too early to predict, only time will tell. Good luck for the tests for your first indigenous cruise missile.

Doubt that....
although the missile has yet to be in single piece..as of now it paper drawings,an engine and some electronics circuits...

 

[The A-5]

@Safriz

Did you read his reply as yet? Even if you did, lets copy/paste it here for other members to clarify
their doubts too if they have any...

To SAF RIZ: AS I’ve explained above, TERCOM & DSMAC are techniques, and not hardware. Check out any schematic of a TLAM & you will come across a piece of hardware called DSMAC illuminator, i.e. an RF-based sensor. All cruise missiles have active on-board sensors, be they SAR-based sensors or radar altimeter. It is these two sensors that make it possible to make use of TERCOM & DSMAC techniques for evading hostile air-defence networks (as the visuals I’ve posted above of the 3M-14E LACM shows). Consequently, the only way one can detect & track the flight profile of inbound cruise missiles is by acquiring passive surveillance ELINT systems (PSES). That is precisely why Pakistan, after the August 1998 TLAM strikes in Afghanistan, acquired two VERA-E PSES units on a lease-to-purchase scheme from the Czech Republic. Therefore, if anyone wants to know where Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are stored in peacetime, then one has to look out for & located the deployed VERA-E PSES units.

The quote he "explained above" to another question...

6) Absolutely WRONG. None of the world’s long-range cruise missiles use IR seekers. They all use RF sensors that making use of DSMAC techniques. Even the BrahMos uses such RF sensors & DSMAC techniques for inertial navigation & terminal homing.

http://www.trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/12/nirbhay-cruise-missile-family-finally.html