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next lal masjid ?masood azhar madrasa bahawalpur

Yes Muslims nations don't have complete system right now but even in most Muslim nations you can follow Islam way better than under a Non Muslim state
Since there is not a single nation that follow complete islamic systems, it wont be appropriate to label some one unislamic. If 100% muslim majority nations have not been able to implement the perfect islamic nizam then why blame individuals living in a muslim minority countries? 5 pillars are too basic but in the hands of an individual. Many loose canons dont even follow the 5 pillars and call for jihad from top of their voices.
 
Mam what are you doing you are banging your head on the walk if you are talking to them about Islam.
What can you expect from people who still thinks that Muslims in India are butchered everyday and are not given Equal rights. So this means that India should be bombed and terminated and whoever is anti India is a nice Terrorist let them be present in Pakistan or any other country. So what can you expect from them.
Its just a debate and exchange of views. I appreciate @Zarvan for putting forth his views that he thinks is right and in the same manner I am putting forth my thoughts. Most people on this forum are unable to tolerate an opposing view and resort to mud slinging. I may not agree with him on some points but I respect him for his decency.
 
Mam what are you doing you are banging your head on the walk if you are talking to them about Islam.
What can you expect from people who still thinks that Muslims in India are butchered everyday and are not given Equal rights. So this means that India should be bombed and terminated and whoever is anti India is a nice Terrorist let them be present in Pakistan or any other country. So what can you expect from them.
Are you kidding right. You are Stereotyping whole Country based on one Moron who isnt even taken Seriously in this forum even. What happen in India to the Muslim is different State to State. Every State and region has their own way of dealing with its Minority and Ground Realities are also different so if we believe Muslims in Kerala enjoy Fair treatment that doesnt mean Muslims in Gujrat does also. So you cant stereotype the whole country in the same way you cant stereotype the the whole Country's thought Process on the basis of some member in PDF unless you got Personal Bias.
 
Are you kidding right. You are Stereotyping whole Country based on one Moron who isnt even taken Seriously in this forum even. What happen in India to the Muslim is different State to State. Every State and region has their own way of dealing with its Minority and Ground Realities are also different so if we believe Muslims in Kerala enjoy Fair treatment that doesnt mean Muslims in Gujrat does also. So you cant stereotype the whole country in the same way you cant stereotype the the whole Country's thought Process on the basis of some member in PDF unless you got Personal Bias.

I agree with you, stereotyping pakistan would be wrong. But we are concerned coz the establishment is pakistan may have the same view as these guys, or wants these guys to be radicalized as nothing is being done by the establishment of pakistan to counter the ideology of these guys, or shut the jihadi factories like masood azhars.
 
Its just a debate and exchange of views. I appreciate @Zarvan for putting forth his views that he thinks is right and in the same manner I am putting forth my thoughts. Most people on this forum are unable to tolerate an opposing view and resort to mud slinging. I may not agree with him on some points but I respect him for his decency.
Tolerance is a mutual issue of South Asia as a whole. Neither Indian would be able to Tolerate Pakistani Views regarding let say Kashmir or Gujarat nor Pakistani would tolerate Indian views on Islamic topic or Pakistan as a whole. Intolerance is something PDF Lacks due to our Nature as South Asian but at least we are discussing the Matters concerned along with our opposing Views and Intolerance. That is the most important component of this Forum.

I agree with you, stereotyping pakistan would be wrong. But we are concerned coz the establishment is pakistan may have the same view as these guys, or wants these guys to be radicalized as nothing is being done by the establishment of pakistan to counter the ideology of these guys, or shut the jihadi factories like masood azhars.
Establishment of Pakistan are more Concern with Strategic interest then a religious one. Establishment are not completely run by Politicians in Pakistan or by some Mullahs. If that was the case then Pakistan would have turned Rough long time ago or being Cut of to the World. Pakistan still Diplomatic Relations with key regional non Regional Countries on Strategic Interest rather then Religious. Last few months ago Pakistan refuse to send their Troops to Saudi Arabia to be used for Yemen Conflict is another proof that they are more concerned with Strategic Interest of the Country now.
 
funding terrorist mukhti bhani which u indians choose to call insurgency then i dont have much to say.

Even Pakistan has never declared Mukti Vahini as terror organization. The neo Zihadist use this as a counter to justify their terrorism in ndia and other country. Exporting terror to other country and blaming other on some fictitious ground will not help.Your army thought that since they could not win in war, they will bleed India with thousand cuts. You miscalculated our response. Initially you trick paid some dividend. That encouraged you to do a bombay.We changed our stretegy subsequently. Our intelligance agency was broadly expert in subversion prior to that. We build hard capability into our intelligence agency and result is there in front of you.You will never be able to win conventional, nuclear or covert war against india.
 
Establishment of Pakistan are more Concern with Strategic interest then a religious one. Establishment are not completely run by Politicians in Pakistan or by some Mullahs. If that was the case then Pakistan would have turned Rough long time ago or being Cut of to the World. Pakistan still Diplomatic Relations with key regional non Regional Countries on Strategic Interest rather then Religious. Last few months ago Pakistan refuse to send their Troops to Saudi Arabia to be used for Yemen Conflict is another proof that they are more concerned with Strategic Interest of the Country now.

Do you really think that those mullahs are themselves radicalised? They are not, otherwise they would be the ones killed in mumbai and not their pawns.
and looking after the strategic interest is fine, but keeping a blind eye to what is happening inside the country is also not the right thing to do.

These jihadi factories will do much more damage to pakistan than to india. We will have a few more mumbais, but you will lose a generation who will think it is better to blow themselves up killing kafirs to have a prosperous life for themselves. and it is sad to say, their numbers are only increasing. Plus educated youth are getting radicalised.
 
Do you really think that those mullahs are themselves radicalised? They are not, otherwise they would be the ones killed in mumbai and not their pawns.
and looking after the strategic interest is fine, but keeping a blind eye to what is happening inside the country is also not the right thing to do.
They are doing what needs to be Done under the Capacity they have. Religious Base of Terror is Trickier to Handle as it uses people's Sentiments so it need to countered on Sentimental level which is not like Attacking a Hideout Kill each and every one of them but involves Countering Propaganda as well staying in the course of law. 3 years back lots of Pakistanis had Sympathies for TTP and doesnt got Agree with Establishment on Handling TTP but now everyone wants Finish them of from the face of the earth this is itself a Proof that Establishment doesnt have any Religious Inclinations in decisions rather its more Strategic Inclinations.
 
These jihadi factories will do much more damage to pakistan than to india. We will have a few more mumbais, but you will lose a generation who will think it is better to blow themselves up killing kafirs to have a prosperous life for themselves. and it is sad to say, their numbers are only increasing. Plus educated youth are getting radicalised.
Agreed. The source of this Jihadi terrorism is not Pakistani Army but Saudi petrodollars.
 
Its just a debate and exchange of views. I appreciate @Zarvan for putting forth his views that he thinks is right and in the same manner I am putting forth my thoughts. Most people on this forum are unable to tolerate an opposing view and resort to mud slinging. I may not agree with him on some points but I respect him for his decency.

Funny isn't it that he has near impeccable forum manners ever if his thoughts seem like they come from the 11th century. Especially when you compare it with many whose thoughts are more grounded in the present time but whose forum manners seem heavily influenced from the 11th century method of displaying disagreement.....:D
 
Agreed. The source of this Jihadi terrorism is not Pakistani Army but Saudi petrodollars.

But the Pakistani army is ready as a customer for the saudis.
They have various deployements in saudi arabia.

Also, pakistani army also uses the term jihad.

Is Pakistan’s Army as Islamist as We Think? | Foreign Policy

I know, a lot of pakistanis hate christine fair, but please try to have a look at the references she is giving as i cant have access to it.
 
Also, pakistani army also uses the term jihad.
There are some Islamist bigots in our army, but the official policy is not Jihadist.

Pakistan’s Army likely needs such motivation against a larger, existential nemesis because — though it has started every war with India — it has never won any of them.

Gen. Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, who seized Pakistan’s government in a coup in 1977 and ruled until his mysterious death in a plane crash in 1988, was most notorious in efforts to Islamize the Army. He permitted religious groups to distribute their materials to the rank and file and officers alike. Under Zia, Islamic training was introduced in the curriculum of the Command and Staff College, which provides important training for promising officers of the captain or major rank.South Asia scholar Stephen P. Cohen found long ago that the Army’s professional journals contained numerous essays that studied the question of Islamization of the military and the degree to which the Pakistani Army should achieve greater adherence to Islamic principles. Pakistani military analyst Hasan Askari Rizvi has noted that Zia’s orthodoxy changed recruitment and retentions patterns by ensuring that piety was a part of an officer’s evaluation. Despite Zia’s efforts to Islamize the Army and the state, however, Cohen found that the changes in the officer corps, while important, were in fact quite modest at the time of his research.
Is Pakistan’s Army as Islamist as We Think? | Foreign Policy
 
I have read 31 pages and as you can see my brother there is not one moron, there are many if you can go through the thread. i am Happy that @Imran Khan bought this up but as you can see who doesn't agree with him. I am not here to stereotype Pakistan because we have seen how Pakistan is viewed globally so there is not much to stereotype Pakistan as for India - india has muslim Population more than your's they are living there peacefully more than muslims in Pakistan. In Pakistan even you can't argue with me that there are killings going on among Shia and Muslims. When i sae this thread when it was started i was happy there were positive comments earlier bit then when i reviewed it the whole scenario of today's radicalized mindset came into appearance. Pakistan needs to Rise collaboratively People of Pakistan must speak against this menace otherwise i am pretty sure It will be Pakistan who will pay the most prize.
Radicalization is relative term here for me its used when people involve Killings for the protection of Islam for you it may be more like anything related to so called Protecting Islam. So we have different opinion about it and it depends on the ground Realities that we are living in. Even in Pakistan Eastern Parts which Borders India are relatively Tolerant while Western Parts that Borders Afghanistan and Iran are most intolerant. When you dont understand the Country fully you should stay away from passing Judgement in a stereotypical manner on it as well so understand the Ground Reality first and what kind of situation has been Faced by not just Pakistan as a Country but to whole Region where Pakistan is located in an Unbiased way to understand the prospective in a clear direction.
 
Pakistani Parliament was built by RAW, since most pdf posters believe that Pak politicians are corrupt. We wanted democrazy in Pak. Hence funded the election. RAW zindabad.

Love that. Teach this to Amreeka how to bring democracy in countries : )


For @Zarvan its all about civic sense. Today's infidels, non Muslims have much developed civic sense than those of 1500 years ago. On the other hand what civic sense 'Muslims' have? @MastanKhan
 
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