Newspaper claims 'Pakistan must learn democracy from India'

[Emmie]

India have very Old democracy. Their Army never ruled there. Even Raw is in their control. India is enjoying on the moon and where are we?? Still searching for electricity.??
Truth is that In past our generals never allowed democracy and no government completed their 5 years term.
There is no substitute of Democracy, and there is no worse than army Rule!!

Well, I understand your position but let me enunciate - what you think is not a complete reality. Load-shedding was literally unheard-of until 2008, until the tenure of a dictator. It was the democracy of PPP backed by the slogan "democracy is the best revenge" who introduced us to load shedding in its actual form, their poor governance is responsible for this hell otherwise the installed capacity of electricity generation is roughly ample to deal the crisis. If you are of the opinion that India is free from power load shedding then my dear friend you need to rectify your belief because they too face this problem.

 

[GR!FF!N]

those who thinks that Democracy makes a nation more corrupt must think that it was them who choose that corrupt leader.in army rule,you can't question the army general about anything,but in Democracy,you can and even you can punish them..its the people,not just some leaders who make backbone of democracy strong...I welcome the steps Pakistanis took towards democracy..what you guys need is a visionary leader of less corrupt stature..Zardari is a very poor example to start with..and thats sad...get rid of him as soon as possible and choose less corrupt leaders...

 

[Emmie]

Thats true.Democracy is not some Roman concept in india democracy has been practiced since thousands of years.If i remember properly Raja bharat was the first king who took first gave is throne to his adopted son after he found his 3 own sons didnt have qualities of the king.

Is that democracy? I am afraid its not, PARJA's will wasn't taken into account.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Well, I understand your position but let me enunciate - what you think is not a complete reality. Load-shedding was literally unheard-of until 2008, until the tenure of a dictator. It was the democracy of PPP backed by the slogan "democracy is the best revenge" who introduced us to load shedding in its actual form, their poor governance is responsible for this hell otherwise the installed capacity of electricity generation is roughly ample to deal the crisis. If you are of the opinion that India is free from power load shedding then my dear friend you need to rectify your belief because they too face this problem.

load shedding is not an side effect of democracy..it means you don't have enough capacity to fulfill of your need.sometimes,when an state or country expands its reach of electricity to the people,that kind of problem arose..same goes if your powerplant isn't working properly or shut down various units.thats not problem of democracy.that means you need more source of power..

 

[zip]

Democracy in its current form gives all possible power to the mass ..if people have complaint about that then either they live in dream land or they idealise only power without responsibility of people ..
It is human nature that he wants to take supreme position atleast he dreams to be so ..in a democratic society if you want to lead a nation you have to have a vision to take people confidence which is very difficult .as a result for most of the people digesting democracy is difficult

Democracy in its current form gives all possible power to the mass ..if people have complaint about that then either they live in dream land or they idealise only power without responsibility of people ..
It is human nature that he wants to take supreme position atleast he dreams to be so ..in a democratic society if you want to lead a nation you have to have a vision to take people confidence which is very difficult .as a result for most of the people surrendering their dream to reach top because of heavy responsibility it brings is difficult ..and you can see a careless attitude towards it ..

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Well, I understand your position but let me enunciate - what you think is not a complete reality. Load-shedding was literally unheard-of until 2008, until the tenure of a dictator. It was the democracy of PPP backed by the slogan "democracy is the best revenge" who introduced us to load shedding in its actual form, their poor governance is responsible for this hell otherwise the installed capacity of electricity generation is roughly ample to deal the crisis. If you are of the opinion that India is free from power load shedding then my dear friend you need to rectify your belief because they too face this problem.

Yar first democratic government completing its term. I already said it will take time.
Let see what happens in next election, but shortfall of electricity is increasing
. Look the Luxuries provided by Musharaf , I.e ACs and other add-ons.
Rental projects are not permanent solution.
It will take around 10+ years to fulfill the requirement of electricity.
6000 Megawatt is just the short fall. We need more electricity in the future and demand will further increase.

 

[Emmie]

load shedding is not an side effect of democracy..it means you don't have enough capacity to fulfill of your need.sometimes,when an state or country expands its reach of electricity to the people,that kind of problem arose..same goes if your powerplant isn't working properly or shut down various units.thats not problem of democracy.that means you need more source of power..

Man nowhere in my post I declared load shedding a side effect of democracy, neither I crowned dictatorship nor I damned democracy, my point had to do with the belief of the guy I was turning to. Its not like this if you have democracy you don't have power load-shedding and if you don't have democracy you have load-shedding. At any given time proper management in terms of both short and long is a key to solutions, utilization of all available resources has to be the priority to overcome the acute shortage. Awfully this government instead of working professionally squeezed money and more many out of the crisis, rental power plants and bla bla were their excuses.

How all of sudden all power plants stopped generating power, how come the demand increased beyond the capacity within a single year? There are a lot of questions.

Again I am not blaming democracy for load-shedding..

 

[pk_baloch]

leave the pakistan and east pakistan does the india really have the democracy ?? huh!!!!

 

[ajtr]

Is that democracy? I am afraid its not, PARJA's will wasn't taken into account.

Yes ofcourse when adopted person was the will of the praja itself.And there were many concepts which are still persiting today even in pakistan ...like concepts of chopal and panchayat can be seen as the village level democracy.

 

[Speaker]

check out the hindu texts like Ramayana and mahabharat.you will get the examples of maintaining the status quo at the very last level till everything fails ends in great wars.

Continuity or status Quo is not the trait of india democracy but its the trait of hindu religion.Indians resists any kind of change once they get used to one system it takes bloodbath to impose another change..

Forgive us for these texts don't advocate bringing in a revolution by killing innocents and blowing yourself up for a "greater cause". Besides, what is Hindu about these mythological texts? It contains stories from this land, but if you think Indians take their values from these books, you need to rethink your understanding of the world. And for a person with proven hatred of Hindus and the religion, it is inappropriate to bring in religion when it is unrelated to the topic.

I wonder how much socialist and secular india is as it advertises itself everywhere.Results on ground are exactly opposite.

Socialism does not exist anywhere except the over resourced and under populated Scandinavian nations. Even Russia is moving away from it. Communism does not exist in China economically. Similarly, India has a hybrid economy and does not need to embrace socialism or fear capitalism.

The poor may not be seeing the benefits as much as the richer sections of society, but they are better off under capitalism than they ever were in the first 40 years of our existence. While income disparity is a huge concern, you cannot be envious of the rich for wanting to be richer. You only need to ensure that the poor also get their share.

As for secularism, it is a perfect and immaculate system which people expect a lot of. So obviously we are being measured against a strict standard which is almost impossible to live up to. A theocracy or a state religion makes it easy - especially an Abrahamic one - because every nonsensical law can hide behind the non-negotiable "book" and people anyway don't expect any fairness in such situations. Let's bring parity in standards before moving forward in comparing social values.

 

[ajtr]

Forgive us for these texts don't advocate bringing in a revolution by killing innocents and blowing yourself up for a "greater cause". Besides, what is Hindu about these mythological texts? It contains stories from this land, but if you think Indians take their values from these books, you need to rethink your understanding of the world. And for a person with proven hatred of Hindus and the religion, it is inappropriate to bring in religion when it is unrelated to the topic.

Then i must say u dont understand your texts.You are like cursed hanuman who forgot his skill due to curse.

Socialism does not exist anywhere except the over resourced and under populated Scandinavian nations. Even Russia is moving away from it. Communism does not exist in China economically. Similarly, India has a hybrid economy and does not need to embrace socialism or fear capitalism.

Then y carry the jhanda of it in the constitution.

The poor may not be seeing the benefits as much as the richer sections of society, but they are better off under capitalism than they ever were in the first 40 years of our existence. While income disparity is a huge concern, you cannot be envious of the rich for wanting to be richer. You only need to ensure that the poor also get their share.

yeah they are better exploited by the rich leeches.

As for secularism, it is a perfect and immaculate system which people expect a lot of. So obviously we are being measured against a strict standard which is almost impossible to live up to. A theocracy or a state religion makes it easy - especially an Abrahamic one - because every nonsensical law can hide behind the non-negotiable "book" and people anyway don't expect any fairness in such situations. Let's bring parity in standards before moving forward in comparing social values.

test secularism on ground in india not in books.

 

[Speaker]

Then i must say u dont understand your texts.You are like cursed hanuman who forgot his skill due to curse.

I am fine following the law of the land. My country and my education have not fallen to such standards that I need to live my life based on what was appropriate in ancient times.

Then y carry the jhanda of it in the constitution.

We still have socialistic policies in place - which is basically used by political leeches and middlemen for their own benefits. And we have not become totally capitalistic, nor is it possible to do that. Even the US is not a 100% capitalistic nation even though it claims to be. The only way is to follow the middle path, while ensuring inclusive growth.

yeah they are better exploited by the rich leeches.

And is there any system where this does not happen? Robbing the rich and giving to the poor doesn't happen anywhere except in communism and even China doesn't follow that retarded policy anymore. For the better part of our history, our politicians robbed the rich but it never went to the poor. You tell me which is the lesser of the two evil?

test secularism on ground in india not in books.

Exactly, and every test has a standard. My point is you'll always pale in comparison to a high standard. We are still working towards getting there, but you have to get some perspective while comparing us to nations with state religions.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Caste power, money power and muscle power are the factors which determine the shape of Indian politics and any party who have got these power will get the success. Elections are considered as investment where you cannot win without spending/investing money. What is so special about Indians democracy ? You just have to chose one rotten egg out of many and nothing else

 

[Joe Shearer]

Caste power, money power and muscle power are the factors which determine the shape of Indian politics and any party who have got these power will get the success. Elections are considered as investment where you cannot win without spending money. What is so special about Indians democracy ? You just have to chose one rotten egg out of many and nothing else

And that is better than your time-tested model of choosing one rotten egg out of one?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Is India really a democracy?

At the heart of all problems lies the politics of the country. We opted for democracy as our political system. But I have been wondering for quite some time - how democratic is Indian polity?

Indian polity has failed to provide solutions to the common man's problems. If a government teacher plays truant or does not teach properly, can the parents do anything about it? Or if a doctor in a government hospital does not treat properly or does not give medicines? What can a poor person do if the ration shop keeper openly siphons off rations? Or what can any one of us do if the policeman refuses to register my FIR or registers a false case against us?

We cannot do anything about it. We can only complain to higher authorities who do not act upon our complaints. So, the citizens do not have any control over government employees.

We also do not have any control over government funds. Sundernagari, a slum in East Delhi does not have a secondary school, water, sewer, etc. The people have been demanding these things for ages. But the government says there are no funds. But the government made fountains worth Rs 60 lakh a few years back. Obviously the people did not need fountains. These fountains did not work for a single day, even on the inauguration day, because there is no water!

Likewise, we see that the same footpaths and roads are broken and repaired again and again. But the road in front of my house never gets repaired.

So we, the citizens of India, do not have any control over government funds. Government money is our money. We pay taxes. Even a beggar on the street pays tax - when he buys a piece of soap, he pays sales tax and many other taxes. All this money belongs to us. And we have absolutely no control over it?

We also do not have any control over government policies or the kind of laws passed by our legislatures. Recently, the government introduced Nuclear Civil Liability Bill. It seeks to cap the liability of a foreign company to just Rs 500 crore in the event of an accident on its nuclear reactor. It will have no criminal liability. I thought the government was playing with our lives. Almost selling our lives. And why is the government doing this? Some companies seem to be lobbying for this Bill. And we, the people of India, have no say in it?

So, we have no control over government employees, government funds, government policies. Is this democracy? Just vote once in five years and then plead before the same people who you voted to power? Or plead before the officials who take salary out of your taxes?

We have a democracy of elections to elections. After winning an election, the parties become brazen and arrogant. They would do all wrong things and if you question them, they would say - why don't you change the government next time? But that would be five years later. What do I do right now? I am suffering right now.

Right to Information is a small concrete step in making our polity more democratic. In this bizarre democracy of elections to elections, it has given power to the people to "just question" the governments. Is it not time to move a step forward and demand some kind of direct participation in government decision making? Is that possible?

For The People : Arvind Kejriwal's blog-The Times Of India