News American Spring: Brooklyn Bridge shut down by protesters

[SMC]

I am merely hoping UN does what's right - recognize this movement as the government of the United States.

 

[RKhan]

You want hipsters to run the USG ?

 

[muse]

You want hipsters to run the USG ?

Can't screw it up any worse than bankers and politicians and so called "conservatives"?

 

[RKhan]

Can't screw it up any worse than bankers and politicians and so called "conservatives"?

I just want the rich to pay their fair share and finally get universal healthcare.

 

[RKhan]

Can't screw it up any worse than bankers and politicians and so called "conservatives"?

I just want the rich to pay their fair share and finally get universal healthcare.

 

[gambit]

I just want the rich...

Who qualifies as 'the rich'?

..to pay their fair share...

Any figures about percentage of income to qualify as 'fair'?

...and finally get universal healthcare.

Why is your health the government's responsibility?

 

[RKhan]

Who qualifies as 'the rich'?

Any figures about percentage of income to qualify as 'fair'?

Why is your health the government's responsibility?

-The top 1 percent that hold 98 percent of the economy.

-Fair as in Pre Bush era tax cuts fair. This so called trickle down economy is a lie and farce made so the top 5 percent of Americans can save as much money as possible while we wait for the bread crumbs.

-And why should my health be the government's responsibility? Because its a smart and right decision to have. I trust the government to take care of me and make sure healthcare is being funded. You're acting like our taxes aren't already going to taking care of people such as Medicare and Medicaid. Yet the right wing activists want small government at home but big government across the world. Great logic. If every American paid 75 percent of their premium that they pay their private insurers we would be able to afford it. But nooooo it's too 'socialist'.

 

[gambit]

-The top 1 percent that hold 98 percent of the economy.

And the bottom half of the American society pay no taxes. You are confused between income, wealth, and the economy.

-Fair as in Pre Bush era tax cuts fair.

Why not more?

This so called trickle down economy is a lie and farce made so the top 5 percent of Americans can save as much money as possible while we wait for the bread crumbs.

There are two ways to 'spread the wealth':

- Voluntary
- Coerced

The trickle down economy is quite voluntary. If I chose to save that is my choice and you have no right to my wealth. If I chose to spend my wealth to create more wealth, by that action I create more opportunities for others to generate their own wealth. You have no right to that decision as well. Wealth creation is not a 'zero sum' enterprise, meaning if I gain it must be at your loss.

Coercion is where the government take via taxation to give a share of my wealth and income to you. If I cut ten cords of wood while you cut only five, what give you the right of entitlement to my wealth? Simply because you have less?

-And why should my health be the government's responsibility? Because its a smart and right decision to have. I trust the government to take care of me and make sure healthcare is being funded. You're acting like our taxes aren't already going to taking care of people such as Medicare and Medicaid. Yet the right wing activists want small government at home but big government across the world. Great logic. If every American paid 75 percent of their premium that they pay their private insurers we would be able to afford it. But nooooo it's too 'socialist'.

Why not trust your life and health to a corporation? The government is very much a corporation, so in this capitalist society, why not trust your life and health to a capitalist corporation? Sounds like it is YOU who want the big government across the world.

 

[silko]

gambit, why are you against a universal healtcare.

we have it here in Norway, we just pay a bit more in taxes.

 

[gambit]

gambit, why are you against a universal healtcare.

we have it here in Norway, we just pay a bit more in taxes.

When -- not if -- I chose to live in a community, be it with just one other person or with a group, I understand that I have to restrain the degree of the many freedoms that I claim for myself. For example, I was married once so in a marriage I can no longer come and go or spend money as I please. Another situation where I have to restrain my freedoms is whenever I take on a responsibility, such as whenever I volunteered to babysit for my friends so husband and wife can have a good night with each other.

No different than when I chose to live as citizen under a government. But in all relationships, especially when it comes to a government, the goal is to limit how much influence the other party has over your life and freedoms. Even in a marriage it is recognized that neither spouse has complete control over the other. In other words, I will restrain my freedoms but it will be only to the degree that both of us will be comfortable in living with each other.

If I will not allow my wife to dictate what I eat, drink, read, or play, why should I allow strangers to do it to me? If I am willing to allow the government to insure my health, what is there to prevent the government from dictating what I eat and drink? Granted, the government cannot monitor me 24/7/365, but it can make it very difficult if not outright financially prohibitive for me to eat and drink whatever I want in any quantity I want. This is not an extreme position to take for the sake of debate. This is very real life. I will eat and drink whatever I want in any quantity I want. So do you.

The more you are willing to give up control of some aspects of your life to the government, the less free you are as a person. The most free person in the world is one where he live in the desert away from human contact. That type is neither you nor I. This is not merely a principled position but also a practical one. There is no shortage of stories where governmental controlled health care have rationing and long wait time for treatments of health issues. I do not speak from ignorance but from experience when I was stationed in the UK and have a British G/F. My current G/F is US-borne but has lived in Canada and Chile, her family's home. She knows the advantages and disadvantages of both sides and prefers her health care to be as free from the government as much as possible. Instead of paying a tax for governmental health care, I would rather have the same amount under my control for a private health insurance fund that is willing to tailor a policy to my needs and wants. That is the freedom I prefer.

 

[silko]

what has the health care to do with what you want to eat?

 

[gambit]

what has the health care to do with what you want to eat?

You are what you eat. The government is no different than a corporation in that it will want to control costs, except the difference here is that the government has no competition so if the government want to control health care costs, it will reduce payments to health care providers in terms of services and expertise, it can regulate what you consume and do that can affect your overall health, or at least influence your behaviors. Tobacco products are taxed high to discourage smoking, that is one example.

 

[silko]

You are what you eat. The government is no different than a corporation in that it will want to control costs, except the difference here is that the government has no competition so if the government want to control health care costs, it will reduce payments to health care providers in terms of services and expertise, it can regulate what you consume and do that can affect your overall health, or at least influence your behaviors. Tobacco products are taxed high to discourage smoking, that is one example.

i dont have that problem, my doctor never dictates me what to eat and what not to eat. for me it is more simpler, i just pay a bit more in taxes and the government takes care of the rest. i dont need to do all that paper work and all that bills.

 

[somebozo]

America needs a regime change by Ahmedinejad!

 

[fd24]

America needs a regime change by Ahmedinejad!

He is too busy. He cant fit them in bro. I already asked him. Gaddafi is free though, he got plenty of time also.